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My 1st post

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by Catherine, Apr 14, 2018.

  1. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Hal and Ingo of SRI

    There seem to be exceptions.

    Although I can't find it off hand, Hubbard did write about using other groups - such as a Christian group - to funnel people into Scientology, or for some other purpose that forwarded Scientology.

    And I can recall, long ago and far away, being asked by someone in the (then) Guardian's Office to infiltrate a group called The Fourth Way. There was no restriction on my engaging in "other practices" while do so. And I would never have mentioned this to an average member since it would have "enturbulated" (upset/disoriented) one of his "stable datums" (sic).

    I'm not following this thread (except very superficially) and have no opinion of it, but the "no other practices" taboo is not quite as cut and dry as rank and file members believe.
  2. FoTi

    FoTi Crusader

    Catherine....what is the name of this "spiritual organization" that you speak of that is connected to Scientology?

    If you don't say who they are, you are not exposing anything, and I don't understand why you are here telling us this story and keeping them a secret in the process. What good does this do?

    There are no facts in your's just very vague except for your telling us that you are afraid.....but you won't say of what or whom you are afraid of.

    How do you possibly expect to be believed here?

    Your post read like a paranoid nutt or a troll.
    phenomanon and Type4_PTS like this.
  3. FoTi

    FoTi Crusader

    Who are Hal and Ingo and what is SRI?
  4. Jim Dandy

    Jim Dandy Patron with Honors

    I know. It's very annoying.

    Jim Dandy
    Tanchi likes this.
  5. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Ingo = Ingo Swann (notorious self proclaimed psychic and remote viewer) died in 2013
    SRI = Stanford Research Institute (where he conducted is so-called experiments)

    His body thetan posted here a while ago! ;)

    It is said he has been working of CIA for years training ''remote viewers'' (Star gate)

    Ingo Swann was a Scientologist and attributed many pseudo-powers to the auditing :oops:
    Here is an interview of him.

    Ingo Swann

    As usual, like for LRH and all other powerful OT, there is no video available featuring their powertz at work, neither independant researches conducted to verify and prove out of doubt such claims. Look like the same old ''conspiracy'' of delluded Oatees who can't confront they have been fooled like kids and keep goingn on with their pseudo mystic non-existing babbling about all those years of chasing pseudo-ghosts inhabiting their lump, cysts and cancer.

    Another one who's encountering with Lord Xenu has made him a mystic psychic.

    (although if I am totally wrong, he may uses his psychic abilities to reply this post and enlighten us as where his thetan is evolving while remotely viewing this little planet earth...)
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  6. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    In the 1973 confidential issue, 'Intelligence, its Role', Hubbard dismissed the idea of using psychic powers to spy on others, yet lauded "Scientology Intelligence tech" as the greatest on Earth and, potentially, the greatest in the universe.

    L. Ron Hubbard, from confidential 'Intelligence, Its Role', 1973:

    "We are potentially successful beyond the greatest dreams and aspirations of any former Intelligence service in the universe bar none.

    'Intelligence furnishes much of the data on which evaluation is based.

    "What could be called SUPPORT Intelligence (or attack or offensive Intelligence) is the other side of the coin, and also forms a vital part of Intelligence activities. But here Intelligence is carrying out part of a program furnished by evaluation to command and ordered executed."

    Going on glowingly about Scientology Intelligence tech, and the Scientology Intelligence service, and belittling "primitive" - "wog" - Intelligence services, Hubbard wrote that:

    " has very little to do with the arcane arts. Although our Intelligence tech might seem like black magic to those in primitive services."​

    This was authored around the time that Ingo Swann was featured in 'Advance! magazine' as a Scientologist and famous psychic. Could someone have asked Hubbard about using "OT powers" for "data collection" or other Intelligence actions?, thus triggering Hubbard's outburst - which is lengthier than is quoted here - rejecting anything but down to earth, practical, Scientology Intelligence tech, with its down to earth Data Collection, Evaluation, and Attack - a.k.a. "Support" - Intelligence?

    It's interesting that Hubbard, when he telling tales or was making a show of it, liked to emphasize OT abilities but, when he was serious, brushed aside such things and depended entirely on materialistic means.

    Hal Puthoff and Ingo Swann.

    It's probably easiest to just google their names.

    The 1973 Advance! magazine article is linked in Lotus' post above.

    I met Ingo Swann in 1973 in Manhattan at a Mensa Society conference on psychic phenomena and had a long conversation with him after the conference had concluded. We discussed, amongst other things, encountering telephone and electrical lines while having out of body experiences while lucid dreaming.

    During his talk at the Mensa Society someone in the audience asked him if he was a Scientologist and he answered "Yes," but was visibly (but ever so subtly) annoyed to have to mention Scientology. Scientology was embarrassing even then.

    After leaving Scientology in the early 1980s, Ingo Swann explained how he was a natural psychic as a small child, lost his psychic sensitivities as a young man in the army in Korea, and regained them while doing Scientology's Lower Grades. He described the OT levels as disappointing.

    Here's the first page of a follow up 1978 Advance! magazine article.

    teadreamer likes this.
  7. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Thank's for the reply Veda.

    I am aware you mostly post informative stuff and less of personnal opinions\impressions , but I am interested in knowing what has been your personnal impression of him at the time of him in regard to his pretense of psychic powers. When you recall this encountering and chat with him, is your impression, from a distance, quite the same or has changed.

    Like this though, very true!
    teadreamer likes this.
  8. Jim Dandy

    Jim Dandy Patron with Honors


    ...and don't forget about Dingo Schwann.
  9. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Ingo was what one would call "light," bordering on "gay," which seems to be a not uncommon characteristic for male psychics. His speech and manner had similarities to the ill fated Quentin Hubbard, whose auditing I once heard when listening to a reel to reel tape recording. Poor Quentin, although a Class XII, stumbled over his words and obviously had no interest in what he was doing.

    But Ingo was a pampered Scientology celebrity, although he tried to hide his connection to Scientology when away from Scientology.

    He did enjoy socializing at the Celebrity Center in Hollywood and flitting about in artsy attire. Ingo was considered an asset to Scientology, although my impression is that Hubbard didn't like him. The Guardian's Office tolerated him, although I don't doubt that they secretly despised and distrusted him.

    I have come to no definitive conclusion on his alleged psychic abilities. I do recall reading his 1975 book, To Kiss Earth Goodbye which contained predictions for the near future and was somewhat surprised by how wrong his predictions were.

    Ingo's psychic abilities, if they were really there in the first place, did not seem to continue, at least in a manner which had an impact on the world.

    I'll leave it to others to pass judgment on Ingo Swann.
    teadreamer likes this.
  10. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Thank you veda, I appreciate your comment, impressions and infos ;)

    I'll try to find excerpts of the book you mentionned though!

    phenomanon likes this.
  11. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Expect to get a postcard in the mail when you finish the psychic enhancer OLD OT (7?)
  12. Catherine

    Catherine Patron

    Thank you Veda.

    My only purpose is to increase your awareness of an area Scientology is involved in and to find out if there are others trying to leave or have left these fringe areas. Again, I apologize for how I sounded in my first post. I was almost out of my mind scared I would disappear at any moment. I'm obviously still around so I've somewhat calmed down and am better able to think properly. I have had time to file a will and other paperwork necessary if anything should happen to me.

    I researched The Fourth Way and found their teaching would be helpful. Who of us wouldn't want to have better concentration and attention spans. Ingo Swann is also an interesting addition to knowledge in the psychic fringe area. Minister Tony Muhammad another fringe group with a separate agenda and tied into Scientology. There appears to be many different areas people might be trying to get away from and would possibly land here looking for support. It also appears this thread? might only be scratching the surface of fringe areas Scientology is involved with. Other people might know of more fringe areas and I hope they will also post that information.

    I appreciate some of the nicer humor and have had a couple of good laughs over them. Thank you, I needed to laugh. I also will stop signing my name after posts since it bothers some of you. I don't know about the etiquette of posting but am trying to learn. I did learn how to add a picture as you will have noticed.
    teadreamer likes this.
  13. Jim Dandy

    Jim Dandy Patron with Honors

    Lol... I don't think it really bothers anyone when you sign your name after a post. Over the years there have been quite a few who would sign their names at the end. But here on ESMB any thing is subject to being playfully ridiculed. Sometimes not so playfully, but in this case it was definitely playful.
    FoTi and teadreamer like this.
  14. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    I didn't mean to make you feel ill at ease about signing your name after the posts. I was just curious where that trait comes from because I have seen a few others here do the same thing.
    teadreamer likes this.
  15. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    To clarify, the long ago and far away infiltration of the group The Fourth Way was done with the purpose of spying so as to gather information. The next step, per Scientology Intelligence tech, would have been to attempt to cripple or destroy the group, since it was regarded as a "squirrel" group as, amongst other things, it was using Scientology Training Routines (TRs).

    If this attempted crippling or destroying was done, it was done by someone else, since I (as a volunteer FSM or Field Staff Member) declined any further participation in this Scientology spying action after a few visits, explaining to the Scientology "Case Officer" (an intel term for someone who oversees agents) that I did not think any further action was necessary and that the group was harmless.

    That was the last time the Guardian's Office asked me to do anything undercover, probably deciding I was a "theetie wheetie" who did not understand the importance of destroying "squirrel" groups.

    The preoccupation that Scientologists have with "smashing squirrels" is somewhat misleading (think layers of the onion) since other spiritual teachers and their literature such as the Nation of Islam, and individuals doing what could only be called "squirrelling" (doing weird things with their minds involving other disciplines) such as Ingo Swann and Hal Puthoff are, or have been, tolerated.

    The deciding factor is: Does Scientology view it as being advantageous to itself. If it does, then it will be permitted.

    As far as I know, The Fourth Way was always considered simply an annoying "squirrel" group.
    teadreamer likes this.
  16. Catherine

    Catherine Patron

    Yours was one of the posts I got a laugh from. Definitely funny!
    teadreamer likes this.
  17. Catherine

    Catherine Patron

    I believe it's because I don't know what I'm doing. Old fashioned letter signing I would guess. :cool: <this is fun too!
  18. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    Thank you. It is interesting that a "frog" can accurately use and spell the word "loose", rather than the dumbass "lose" These are 2 different words, with 2 different meanings. Your clothes may be 'LOOSE', but if you 'LOSE' them in public, there will be trouble.
    Good on you, Lotus.
    I am so glad that you are back on the MB with us.
  19. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!


    I made a litteral english translation from a french expression, which I often do and shouldn't.
    But in this case It seems I shoul dhave said ''loose screws'' like here: ;)


    It's obvious though, Hubbard had more than just a few loose screws! ;)
    (especially when he has been involved in black magic practices, with his very dear friend Aleister Crowley (who never encounter with him), and gave a try to preform sadistic sexual tortures on his ''never been'' wife, Sarah Northrup (which was found to be factual by a judge in a court decision that never occured...)
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  20. Catherine

    Catherine Patron

    Thank you. I only meant to imply greater concentration and attention would be a helpful thing. The way The Fourth Way practices these things is not something I would try. I appreciate your clarification of Scientology's way of thinking and explaining some of the "inside" terminology that escapes me. I also appreciate your getting me to this boards umbrella home page which I had not seen before. I am researching some things about Scientology and am surprised by some of the information I come across. The treatment I am being given will never stop unless I come back quietly into the fold and somehow amend the damage I have done. Scientology may lose interest in me but if I keep being outspoken about the secrets I have knowledge of I doubt they will quit. I have accomplished what I set out to do here and will move on to other areas where I will (more sanely) discuss what I know. I will pop in here periodically to see if I can be of help to anyone trying to leave fringe groups attached to Scientology. In the mean time I know they will be treated properly. Catherine :)