What's new

My message to all Tech believers on this board: Don't save me! Don't you dare... ;- )

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
To all the "justifiers" the "true believers" "incorrigible stubborns" and all the "Techies" "Freezoners" or "Independents" even if they claim to be free from Hubbards mindf..k:duh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXZqRagpdaU

"You say
We must move forward
And I say
Let’s not go back
Once we were brave explorers
But this trail is a worn-out track

Don’t chase that setting sun
Look what we’ve become

Don’t save me
I’ll save you the hassle
Our little castle is a house of cards
It’s empty
Heartache is pending
This is us ending

You say
You were just kidding
And I say
This is no joke
We’ve grown and we’re not fitting
We flamed out to a whisp of smoke

Don’t turn the truth around
It reads the same way upside down

Don’t save me
I’ll save you the hassle
Our little castle is a house of cards
It’s empty
Heartache is pending
This is us ending

So don’t save me
Don’t you dare

Little by little
Sneaking upon
‘Til it’s too much to ignore
Let’s leave in the middle
Before it dead ends
I’ve been down this road

Don’t save me
I’ll save you the hassle
Our little castle is a house of cards
It’s empty
Heartache is pending
This is us ending

Don’t save me
I’ll save you the hassle
Our little castle is a house of cards
It’s empty
Heartache is pending
This is us ending

So don’t save me
Don’t you dare"


To Emma,
thank you for fixing ESMB and thank you for all what you have done in the past to provide this "place" for all of us
.:yes::thumbsup::happydance:

much love
Markus
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Most of the non CofS Scn'ists I know- and I was indeed like that when I was into it- are centered on their personal journey and in talking to people who want to know about Scn (which means, usually, that those people would have initiated contact with the tech believer, not the other way around) and aren't into proselytizing. You have only to read their posts to know that in most cases what I say is applicable.
 
Last edited:

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Most of the non CofS Scn'ists I kow- and I was indeed like that when I was into it- are centered on their personal journey and in talking to people who want to know about Scn (which means, usually, that those people would have initiated contact with the tech believer, not the other way around) and aren't into proselytizing. You have only to read their posts to know that in most cases what I say is applicable.

I know Claire, they are the "better" Scientologists promoting Hubbards insane ideas - this is exactly why I think that they are very dangerous.

best
Markus
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
What prompted this thread? I really don't see too many Hubbardites here. I have seen many people go through a transition of viewpoint and this is a place where that is allowed. I see the credibility of Hubbard and his followers sinking like the Titanic.
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
What prompted this thread? I really don't see too many Hubbardites here. I have seen many people go through a transition of viewpoint and this is a place where that is allowed. I see the credibility of Hubbard and his followers sinking like the Titanic.

Countless discussions with many Hubbardites on this board prompted this thread - It is great that this is a place "where a transition of viewpoint is allowed". But do you think that I have to hide my opinion when I have the impression that people on this board are promoting Hubbards nonsense directly or if members of ESMB are defending people who keep people in Hubbards trap just to use them for their own agenda?
love
Markus
 
Last edited:

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
I guess I'm just not really seeing much of that going on here. Seems like a largely anti-hubbard crowd to me.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Re: My message to all Tech believers on this board: Don't save me! Don't you dare...

I know Claire, they are the "better" Scientologists promoting Hubbards insane ideas - this is exactly why I think that they are very dangerous.

best
Markus

I think that if someone wants to go into a room and read about the ARC triangle or do some life repair auditing or the Grades or anything like that, that it doesn't hurt anyone whatsoever.

There are risks inherent with crossing the street, actually. I mean, people experience religious mania from mainstream religions; they sometimes go bonkers from psychiatric treatment. Nothing is free of risk. I've nver seen anyone do badly with basic or intermediate auditing or who wanted to apply an admin scale or something like that.

Scn is pretty different when practiced outside CofS.

---------- Post added at 02:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:05 PM ----------

Countless discussions with many Hubbardites on this board prompted this thread - It is great that this is a place "where a transition of viewpoint is allowed". But do you think that I have to hide my opinion when I have the impression that people on this board are promoting Hubbards nonsense directly or if members of ESMB are defending people who keep people in Hubbards trap just to use them for their own agenda?
love
Markus

Except that your premise is that you don't want to be converted. I don't see that anyone is trying to do so.

This reminds me, in a way, of my experiences on another forum a few years back. In the interests of candor, I identified myself and was honest about my personal ideological interests which, then, were that I was at the time, a Non CofS Scn'ist. I got told by some contributors that this was tantamount to proselytizing. Well, no, it's not. Not if that's all the person's doing.

Had you created a thread in which the opening post stated that you had concerns about the belief system, this would have hung together a bit better.
 

xenusdad

Patron with Honors
Re: My message to all Tech believers on this board: Don't save me! Don't you dare...

I always say that I'm against the abuses not the beliefs but really, come on, the practise of scientology principles in life does not improve anything one jot IMO and yes, it's true that a person can believe what they like but should we be encouraging their delusion and possible insanity?
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Re: My message to all Tech believers on this board: Don't save me! Don't you dare...

I'm not overwhelmingly impressed, either, but I suspect it's like anything else. A person gets born again, gets into some other thing, and someone outside looking on may not see a big change. Maybe there is one and he can't see it or, as is often the case, the person who's practicing the religion or ology or whatever is just feeling his way on his own spiritual quest.

I will also say this: I have yet to see any of the serious abuses perpetrated in CofS being perpetrated in the FZ. I feel this is due to two factors:

A lot of non CofS Scn'ists are willing to step outside the box and disagree with LRH policies (which are often the culprit). Even the tech purists do this.

The other is that the FZ isn't centralized. It's just individual practitioners. Any networking done is minimal.

CofS' abuses are caused by not only slavish adherence to some really shitty policies, but also to an attitude where you have this centralized group and its POWER is the ultimate goal for the organization. Thus, the individual takes a back seat.

Non CofS practitioners, though sometimes exhibiting shitty attitudes and all too human failings, concentrate on the needs of the individual. Thus, we don't get the disconnections, coerced/enforced abortions, freeloader debts, poor medical (or non existent) treatment, high prices or any of that.
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: My message to all Tech believers on this board: Don't save me! Don't you dare...

Please stop to help to hide Hubbards con VC :unsure:

I'm not overwhelmingly impressed, either, but I suspect it's like anything else. A person gets born again, gets into some other thing, and someone outside looking on may not see a big change. Maybe there is one and he can't see it or, as is often the case, the person who's practicing the religion or ology or whatever is just feeling his way on his own spiritual quest.

I will also say this: I have yet to see any of the serious abuses perpetrated in CofS being perpetrated in the FZ. I feel this is due to two factors:

A lot of non CofS Scn'ists are willing to step outside the box and disagree with LRH policies (which are often the culprit). Even the tech purists do this.

The other is that the FZ isn't centralized. It's just individual practitioners. Any networking done is minimal.

CofS' abuses are caused by not only slavish adherence to some really shitty policies, but also to an attitude where you have this centralized group and its POWER is the ultimate goal for the organization. Thus, the individual takes a back seat.

Non CofS practitioners, though sometimes exhibiting shitty attitudes and all too human failings, concentrate on the needs of the individual. Thus, we don't get the disconnections, coerced/enforced abortions, freeloader debts, poor medical (or non existent) treatment, high prices or any of that.

Claire - you mentioned the ARC Triangle above and you stated that "I (you) think that if someone wants to go into a room and read about the ARC triangle or do some life repair auditing or the Grades or anything like that, that it doesn't hurt anyone whatsoever."
In fact I think that every little part of Hubbards so called Technology is part of the trap. The trap can even exist witout an organisation in my opinion. The crazy ideas can survive without the organisation and from this crazy thoughts other criminal organisations can be created again and again.
Lets take the ARC Triangle you mentioned. Hubbard managed to erase love and compassion with this part of his "Technology" You mean this does not hurt anybody? Well I could tell you some stories here how it feels that my father is no longer able to feel or show love and compassion towards me or my brothers and my sister. The dogma of the ARC triangle is one big reason for this. As long as a person is not able to see this he or she still is caught in Hubbards trap. This is my opinion and this is why I think there are still too many Hubbardites arround here - unfortunately you are one of them Claire. And I have to confess that I was one of this brainwashed trapped people too - much too long. You should ask yourself why "the individual takes a back seat" after getting in contact with Hubbards mean trap and maybe you will be able to see soon VC.

I hope the following essay will help you with this
:yes:

The quotes are from "The Soul Hackers" by Caroline Letkeman:

"A Sea Org member stays in the Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF), though he is treated more cruelly than any kidnapper could treat his victim. He is deprived of sleep, food, and the comfort of his family. He is thoroughly introverted into believing some Authority, who has convicted him of evils so deeply entrenched that he cannot be trusted with his liberty. He “knows” that this Authority, whom he trusts with his very eternity, will cure him, and that he must disclose his private criticisms that point to the evils that must be ripped out of his being. And so day after day he cleans the dumpsters, he submits to endless interrogations, and he runs around a pole to cure himself of those nameless evils. Then one day he escapes, still “knowing” that it is the evil within is telling him to run. He makes his escape anyway. He somehow finds a way to start a new life, though he is depressed and lonely and feels degraded. He eventually finds the courage to talk about the atrocities he experienced. He goes to the courts. And he sees the disbelief in the jury’s eyes: even if he was telling the truth about the RPF, why in God’s name did he submit to it in the first place? But he doesn’t know. He can only point to the atrocities. The jury is fed at every turn with lies about the Sea Org member’s past, and lies about their own crimes. Scientology points to their happy membership and twists the minds of the jury with convolutions that would make any sane man’s head spin. Scientology’s defense depends utterly upon continuing to hide their secret weapon. That weapon is transference. "....

"Scientology and the New Scientologist

Anyone coming into Scientology enters with the idea that there is something in his life that Scientology can help him resolve or make better. Anyone without such hopes is summarily dismissed with a label of PTS (Potential Trouble Source).29 In other words, dismissal occurs when the Scientologist handler fails to activate a complex. Hubbard’s policy clearly states:

DISSEM TO THE INDIVIDUAL WITH PROBLEMS NOT THE GROUP OR INDIVIDUAL WHO HAVE SOLUTIONS. <sic>30

— L. Ron Hubbard

(There will be further discussion on PTS phenomena a little later in this essay.)

Hubbard concluded that a non-Scientologist is very far from accepting the concept that he “is” a thetan. He determined that the person on the street must be addressed at his own level, that of “raw meat”. Hubbard felt that the individual coming into Scientology was simply an unconscious biological robot, thoroughly controlled by his reactive mind.31 He masterminded The Dissemination Drill as a means to get the “overwhelmed thetan” to conceive of some small thing about his life that was ruining him. As “nothing in this life aberrates the being”, the trained Scientologist “knows” this small thing is not important; what is important is that the person admits to an unwanted condition.32 The Scientologist then convinces the person that this “ruin” is something Scientology can handle for him. The Dissemination drill generates psychic tension between the subjective “ruin” and the objective organization. When that occurs, money flows to the coffers automatically and outside of the person’s own free will.

That “small thing”, the complex, is intentionally activated in the person’s unconscious by the Dissemination Drill, and by any Scientology training or auditing. It is not necessary for a dissemination drill to be run on a person; the psychological basis for the drill is duplicated throughout Scientology. The transference itself probably crystallizes at the moment the individual begins to think of himself as a Scientologist, or when he becomes convinced that Scientology will help or has helped him.

By reason of his “raw meat” human condition, the new Scientologist is considered to not be in control of his body, his environment or his life. To be called a human is derogatory and an insult in Scientology. It is not until he has attested to the state of Clear that he can consider himself officially “Homo Novis”, or “new man”. 33 The new Scientologist is considered to be under the control of his reactive mind and must not under any circumstance be allowed to control himself or make his own judgments. The reasoning is that the reactive mind will do everything possible to obstruct the pitifully overwhelmed thetan from going free.

Hubbard categorically revokes any rights the person has to his own privacy, and specifically revokes the right of any person to his own thoughts.34 Unfortunately, this right is never returned to the Scientologist; it is considered an index of the case’s progress where he no longer has concern about what might be private. 35 Since the Scientologist entrusts the organization to help him address the underlying causes of his difficulty, it would be both logical and necessary that he would trust the organization with access to his private thoughts. Conversely, any “secrecy aberration” is immediate cause for suspicion of hidden crimes against Scientology.36 The Scientologist sacrifices his own constitutional right to privacy, due to transference and the unconscious loyalty it imparts to Hubbard and the organization. Scientology tricks the person into believing that Scientology alone can help him; he has nowhere else to turn....."

"Hubbard Redefines Transference

Hubbard was completely aware of transference and its specific and far-reaching effects in 1950. He built his whole moneymaking operation around transference. And then suddenly, in 1956, with a undeniably intentional twist of his pen, redefined transference and took the subject underground. He did not resolve transference; he simply found a more profitable way to control humanity by corrupting its meaning.

We find another error in psychoanalysis under the heading of “transference.” The actual definition of “transference” in psychoanalysis is sufficiently unstable to bring about considerable argument as to what is meant by transference. In fact, in Dianetics, we had to reestablish an entirely different condition which we called “valences” to denote the shift from one’s own personality into that of another.

Transference in psychoanalysis was used to denote the transference of the patient into the valence of the practitioner. This was the way which Commander Thompson described the phenomenon to me and nothing has been learnt <sic> from later analysts to disprove this basic definition of Freud’s.50

— L. Ron Hubbard

Hubbard curiously credited his childhood tutoring experience with Commander Joseph “Snake” Thompson, as the basis for this definition. Within the same time period, he was making plans for a Scientology doctorate course to include a “fast review of Freudian psychoanalysis to the end of obtaining a fast and certain command of diagnosis and definition as outlined by Sigmund Freud.”51 We also know that he was watching Freud and his book sales very closely, and we know of Hubbard’s clear intention to monopolize psychotherapy.52 By July 1953, he was busy “writing up a book on the subject of Freudian self-analysis.”53 And within a month, the book Self-Analysis54 was revised reissued and included as part of standard procedure in processing.55

Hubbard completely redefined transference as the patient taking on the identity of the practitioner. This was not a one-time error; Hubbard repeated his new definition for transference in the Saint Hill ® Special Briefing Course Lecture numbered SH Spec 6507C27 56, as well as in Certainty Vol. 9 No. 7.57 Hubbard hid his crime in broad daylight; to this day, glossaries in tape transcripts and newer versions of basic books provide the correct definition of transference. Hubbard knew he could not resolve the subject of transference—his entire empire was built around it!

In every Scientologist he maliciously created a monumental negative transference against psychotherapy and psychoanalysis so that they would never turn to a psychiatric text for any authority on the human mind. And his research continued in the direction of how to abuse transference by obscuring its effects. I will point out a couple of technical examples of this a little later."....

All quotes from: http://www.carolineletkeman.org/writings/soulhackers.html

When Uwe left us here in 1979 he was a handsome gentle young man who loved his life and his freedom and who respected others and their freedom. Hubbard managed to change him into a man who acted like this:
"I'd gotten some assists for the pain I was in and I got this weird idea all of a sudden, that maybe the reason why I was pulling in all this PAIN was because I had been cruel to my MOM! And I HAD TO go be nice to her, otherwise I was going to suffer and feel bad the rest of my life. She didn't deserve me not visiting her. She'd been promised by the recruiter that I would visit her every year. But in all of 14 years, I had only seen her for a total of 6 days cumulatively. So, one morning, I just packed a back pack, woke up early and ran away. I ran towards the mountains and I crawled under wild bushes and brush, crossed sand pits, hiked and hiked. I got to a clearing, a road, I was happy, I could just follow it to civilization. But the dog, Lady had followed me! Several teams of RPFers had been sent out looking for me when I had not showed up for morning muster. They could not have caught up with me. But Lady had been following me the whole time! Damn it! It was hard to be mad at Lady. She was just doing her job, being a guard dog and making sure I didn't get attacked by a mountain lion or something.

I suddently saw something coming down this road or fire break or whatever it was. It was the Gold Security SUV. Russ Andrus was driving it. I tried to dive into the bushes and hide and let the SUV drive past, but Lady stayed on the road and was practically pointing at me and wagging her tail. I called her name, tried to get her to hide with me, but she just barked when I said her name! So Russ found me. I didn't try to run away. I was exhausted and starving. I'd had no breakfast. Russ had some food inside the truck. I sat down inside the truck eating some french fries and peeling an orange he had given me. I told Russ I didn't want to go back to the RPF site. He said I didn't have to. "Cool " I said. He said that I did have to talk to Uwe, first, just to sort some things out. I agreed. He drove me back to the Ranch to meet Uwe. I said, NOT Back to the RPF site. Russ said OK.

When I got to the Ranch, Uwe was there and he sat next to me in the SUV. He said he originally wanted to talk in the Ranch Security office, but one of the kids had been red-tagged and Barbara Thompkins was using it to give him/her a session. I said, OK, fine. We can talk in the truck. Uwe said, so what's up? I said I wanted to go see my family. I missed them. I said I didn't think I wanted to be in Scientology anymore either. Uwe said that I coudln't just leave like that. It was called blowing. I said, who cares if I blow? I was sent to the RPF. That's like being fired isn't it? If I don't do the program, I'm not allowed to stay in the SO, nobody would want me. So who the F____ cares? We got out of the truck and walked around a little. Anthony Bolstad and Darren just happend to walk by. Ant saw me and smiled with a big smile and said "HI AUNT!" and I said, "HI ANT" back. I felt badly, weren't they my family too? But I really was not allowed to speak to them. Uwe wanted to get back inside the truck. I told Uwe that me and Scientology aren't mixing very well. If staying and doing the RPF Program was proper "Scientology", then I couldn't do it. I could not agree with punishing me. Uwe asked, "What about your husband Bruce?" I felt like crying. Bruce had not spoken to me since mid 1996, and I'd not even been in the same room with him since mid 1994. Uwe, it's not RIGHT that I'm on the RPF. I haven't harmed the church, I have always been a hard worker. You KNOW that. You know me! You know how hard I've worked in the SO. We've known each other for years, What am I doing on the RPF? Why did I really get declared an SP? Was I CSd for it? Did AK CS me to get declared? Or someone in RTC? I know I upset Bruce Bromley and he blew, but I had NO IDEA that he felt guilty about stat pushing the CCRD completions in the late 80's. No idea. I don't even know if that's why he blew, maybe he'd been planning it before I'd even got there! Why did it get blamed on me? Look, I just know that this isn't working out for me and I need to get on with my life.

Uwe, said, OK, I've heard all that you've said. We can deal with this. I want to show you something, we need to go to an office space. He started to drive towards the RPF Site! Uwe, I am not going back! He kept driving. Stop the damn car! Uwe said, "Look, I just want to use the trailer as my office, it's no big deal". He had me sit in front of him at a desk in the back of the men's dorm trailer. He had me read something. I don't even remember what it was. Then he told me that I was officially declared a Suppressive Person again. I said "What????" I got up and I left the trailer, I walked outside and I started to walk out of the RPF Site. I was just going to walk out. I said, "WELL IF I'M DECLARED, THEN I DON'T HAVE TO DO THE RPF DO I?" I'm going home. Tom Woodruff and another guy stopped me. Tom stood in front of me and grabbed my arms. I pushed his hands off of me and then I lunged at him and wrapped my hands around his neck. I started to choke him. I said, "Let me fucking go" And then someone had pulled me off of Tom and slammed me down on the ground really hard. I landed on my back. I started screaming, "I'm not BAD, I'm not BAD". I started to cry.".....
from: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?2483-25-Years-of-Scn&p=75578#post75578

"So on New Years Day of 1995, I just went to see my Mom. No one authorized it. I guess I was officially "blown" but really I was just trying to "handle" my Mom. I had not woken up yet and gotten out of the SO, but I was trying to stay with my Mom somehow. In doing this, I really screwed up my Mom's life because I showed up unnannounced at her apartment and gave her a long talk about psychiatry and drugs and all that she took me seriously. She stopped taking her medications...

I flew back to Gold and I went and pulled weeds for a while and then I went back to post. I did not even get a lower condition assignment. All that COB said was, "when is she coming back to post?" I was working on my planning for the new Cine Studio and on the re-make of the False Tone Arm Film when I noticed that I had not gotten a letter from my mother recently. I was very worried. I talked to AK about it up in Qual and she got ahold of Uwe, the Security Chf and got me a special OK to use the Security phone to call around and find my Mom. I found her. She had been committed to a high security mental institution. I managed to get her on the phone. She was in hysterics pleading with me to come and get her out. Help! She said. She stopped taking her medications like I'd told her to do, but the VOICES had come back again! And they were telling her to kill people, and so she called the police on the voices and the police put her in a straight jacket and committed her. She had very clearly become a danger to herself and others. The psychiatrist did not believe my Mom that her daughter, me, had told her to stop taking her meds. He felt that she could not be trusted to take her pills and so he was going to institutionalize her for the rest of her life!!!! Literally take away her rights as a California Citizen. My Mom urged me to call her psychiatrist and TELL HIM THAT I WAS THE ONE WHO TOLD HER TO STOP TAKING HER MEDICATION. SHE DID NOT DO IT OF HER OWN ACCORD. At this point Uwe said NO. He would not OK me to call my Mom's psychiatrist and tell him that.

What?!!! I had to save my Mom. I had to get her out. She was clearly not having fun in the psych ward! Uwe said it was "off purpose" for me to be working so hard to help my Mom. I should be on post trying to save the whole world and not just my Mom. I was so damn confused by all this. Isn't this what I was told Scientology was all about? Helping people so they wouldn't have to get oppressive psychiatric treatment and I was being expected to leave my Mom in a psychiatric ward for the rest of her life? I walked out of Uwe's office and my head was a blur. I didn't know what to do. I started feeling this detached feeling and colors and sounds became muted around me. Life got really "duled down" It was Odd."

From: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?2483-25-Years-of-Scn&p=75272#post75272

I'm sure Uwe used the knowledge of the ARC Triangle to "sell" this nonsense to Maureen.
The other Uwe who left us in 1979 would have been not able to do such cruel actions. Then he was full of love and compassion and he was able to use his common sense you know.....


love
Markus
 
Last edited:

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Re: My message to all Tech believers on this board: Don't save me! Don't you dare...

I honestly believe that individual ideas can be viewed as just that- individual ideas.

I know where you're coming from as to things being part of the Hubbard mind fuck, as a very good friend of mine calls it. I think most people tend to have a lot of trouble separating out ideas. Probably because some weren't meant to be separated out.

It is for that reason that I wandered far enough afield of Scn to stop calling myself an Indie Scientologist (as you know, I am the one who coined that term. Also, I never cease to stop admiring myself. LOL!). Partly cuz I went so far out from that and partly cuz I got too into the label. That's not a good thing to do even if one is part of a more mainstream type thing.

Anyway, I don't see a problem with something like, say, the ARC triangle. We may disagree on that and that's fine.

I think the main problem is when you get a centralized cult like CofS is. The FZ, not being centralized, has managed to refrain from RPFing people, regging them out of their life's savings, having a Sea Org or anything. On the other hand, I've met more people there (than I'd once have anticipated) who have some of the nastier mindsets I've seen in church members. The way some of them went after me and the way others there supported them when I denounced what happened with Emma and Tansy is an example, to my way of thinking.

That's why I'm not with them anymore.

By the way, no disrespect to you as I can honestly say you are one of the sweetest people I've encountered in cyber-land in a very long time but quoting Caroline Letkeman to me will never ever serve to make or underscore any point you are making. I have little or no respect for her.
 
Last edited:

TheRealNoUser

Patron with Honors
Re: My message to all Tech believers on this board: Don't save me! Don't you dare...

Marcus wrote
In fact I think that every little part of Hubbards so called Technology is part of the trap. The trap can even exist witout an organisation in my opinion. The crazy ideas can survive without the organisation and from this crazy thoughts other criminal organisations can be created again and again.

Lets take the ARC Triangle you mentioned. Hubbard managed to erase love and compassion with this part of his "Technology" You mean this does not hurt anybody? Well I could tell you some stories here how it feels that my father is no longer able to feel or show love and compassion towards me or my brothers and my sister. The dogma of the ARC triangle is one big reason for this. As long as a person is not able to see this he or she still is caught in Hubbards trap.
This is an excellent summary - and I agree with it wholeheartedly.

TheRealNoUser
 
Last edited:

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Re: My message to all Tech believers on this board: Don't save me! Don't you dare...

Well, dollinks, I was sincere and heartfelt in what I wrote. I don't think that there's any need to indicate disapproval.

But I invite anyone with any knowledge of a Sea org, an RPF, disconnection or high prices in the FZ to please, by all means, post that information. I think the world needs to know!

And if anyone critic believes I should not have ditched Scn, well, I'd find that baffling, but you have only to tell my why. And I'll promptly roundfile it. :yes::dieslaughing:

On second thought, the heck with it. I never have liked to have other critic's views presented to me as a reason I should not have mine. And I never had any satisfactory interactions with the person I previously named.

When I think about it, just about all the past flame wars I ever had were because I was candid about things and truly heartfelt. Not everyone gives points for that. I guess they'd rather have the good roads good weather type lies rather than honestly.
 
Last edited:

This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: My message to all Tech believers on this board: Don't save me! Don't you dare...

Wow Marcus!

I never pieced together that that your brother was the Uwe in Twin A's story.

My job was to be full of ARC with people to get them to give money they couldn't afford to give.

What an embarassment. :nervous:
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Re: My message to all Tech believers on this board: Don't save me! Don't you dare...

Regging and recruitment are two huge huge areas of abuse in CofS.
 

This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: My message to all Tech believers on this board: Don't save me! Don't you dare...

Well, dollinks, I was sincere and heartfelt in what I wrote. I don't think that there's any need to indicate disapproval.

But I invite anyone with any knowledge of a Sea org, an RPF, disconnection or high prices in the FZ to please, by all means, post that information. I think the world needs to know!

And if anyone critic believes I should not have ditched Scn, well, I'd find that baffling, but you have only to tell my why. And I'll promptly roundfile it. :yes::dieslaughing:

On second thought, the heck with it. I never have liked to have other critic's views presented to me as a reason I should not have mine. And I never had any satisfactory interactions with the person I previously named.

When I think about it, just about all the past flame wars I ever had were because I was candid about things and truly heartfelt. Not everyone gives points for that. I guess they'd rather have the good roads good weather type lies rather than honestly.

Claire,

I know someone being regged for an OT 3 package in the FZ right now.

What do you think of that?

---------- Post added at 06:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:10 AM ----------

I'm not sure who wrote this, due to the various multiple quotes, but it is an excellent summary - and I agree with it wholeheartedly.

P.S. Let me know who the author of this quote is, and I will amend my post to reflect accordingly.

TheRealNoUser

It was Marcus.
 

FrankBooth

Patron with Honors
Re: My message to all Tech believers on this board: Don't save me! Don't you dare...

I guess I'm just not really seeing much of that going on here. Seems like a largely anti-hubbard crowd to me.

Of course, that occurs via PM when they circle like vultures hoping to prey upon those either freshly out, or still in but questioning things, and attempt to corral them into continuing the mindfuck outside the auspices of the CoS.

I think it is a legitimate question, especially considering how emotionally and intellectually vulnerable people may be when taking those first delicate steps in an attempt to break away from LRH's con game. Other people's mileage may vary, but from those I have come to know and love, the last thing they wanted was to get some shady "I'm here to help you" regging by the freezone shills of LRH's trash when they were looking for real world answers.

I don't know if it's the case anymore, but as of a couple years ago, it was commonplace for new members to get bombarded by freezoner propaganda the minute they stepped through the door, and I for one find it disgusting.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Re: My message to all Tech believers on this board: Don't save me! Don't you dare...

Now, Frank, I've told you a million times to stop exaggerating! :D
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: My message to all Tech believers on this board: Don't save me! Don't you dare...

Of course, that occurs via PM when they circle like vultures hoping to prey upon those either freshly out, or still in but questioning things, and attempt to corral them into continuing the mindfuck outside the auspices of the CoS.

I think it is a legitimate question, especially considering how emotionally and intellectually vulnerable people may be when taking those first delicate steps in an attempt to break away from LRH's con game. Other people's mileage may vary, but from those I have come to know and love, the last thing they wanted was to get some shady "I'm here to help you" regging by the freezone shills of LRH's trash when they were looking for real world answers.

I don't know if it's the case anymore, but as of a couple years ago, it was commonplace for new members to get bombarded by freezoner propaganda the minute they stepped through the door, and I for one find it disgusting.

I do agree that it used to be worse. But it seems like at this point I can count the number of pro-techers on one hand and still have a few fingers left.
 
Top