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Need e-meter and qualified scientology auditor for Saturday June 20

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by AnonOrange, Jun 15, 2009.

  1. AnonOrange

    AnonOrange Gold Meritorious Patron

    I got a request from the director of the Center for Inquiry in Los Angeles for someone that knows e-meters to demonstrate the device to their Independant Investigations group. They want to understand what an e-meter is typically used for in the context of scientology auditing as well as a basic explanation on how it works.

    Preferably, a qualified auditor with a late model e-meter would be best. The Center for Inquiry is the same place where Tory gave a couple of lectures.
    4773 Hollywood Blvd
    Hollywood, CA 90027

    They would need the device and instructor by 10:00 AM on Saturday. Please contact me for further arrangements. This is a non-profit organization set up for the advancement of science and critical-thinking. It's assumed the e-meter and instructor will be provided for free. In other words, they're skeptics and they're cheap !

    If time permits, I'll connect the e-meter directly to my blood veins with syringes on each arm, while people pinch me or try to wake up my body thethans!
  2. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    If you kept yourself out of the equation there might be more people willing to demonstrate things. Why does anyone need *you* or *your* agenda?

  3. AnonOrange

    AnonOrange Gold Meritorious Patron

    It's not MY agenda. Jim Underdown of CFI west requested the e-meter. I said I'd try to find one. He asked others as well.

    I really don't know what your problem is. They just want to investigate the device from a scientific standpoint. What big problem do you have with that? Do you still believe in the e-meter, the tech or do you just plain hate me? Either way, you're wrong.
  4. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron


  5. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    And when no one is foolish enough to connect their meter up to syringes in your arms, you can claim its all a fraud....
  6. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Now now Alex; just because I think AO is Bozo doesn't mean I don't think you're Wormtongue :)

  7. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Don't forget the garlic and silver bullets.

    I doubt if you will find anyone here willing to be part of your freak show. You might just find someone willing to work with the other guy, but if all that is known ahead of time is that you will be intimately involved with the show, well, don't hold your tourniquet.

  8. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron


    (and I had to googlepedia wormtounge, having never read Tolkein.)
  9. AnonOrange

    AnonOrange Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'm being modest here, but I think it's a brilliant idea ! It's a simple, definitive test that all present scientology believers will be hard pressed to explain away. That test should have been done in 1950 and we would not be stuck with all that nonsense.

    I'll stick the needles into my hand's veins, just to make sure I don't miss any body theathans that could be lurking in my forearms. I want to make sure I catch them all! :D
  10. AnonOrange

    AnonOrange Gold Meritorious Patron

    Paul, in the past you gave me the impression that you were inquisitive and willing to subject the tech (and your telepathy hypothesis) to rigorous testing.

    Why is the test I propose so different ?
  11. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Have you ever considered going out to Death Valley and laying yourself in the sun to wait for L. Ron Hubbard to rescue you?

    Admittedly, the fact that He wouldn't, might tend to soften the message, but, on the bright side, you could *prove* that L. Ron Hubbard failed to 'save' you and we would have less AO onanism to deal with.

    Everybody wins!

  12. AnonOrange

    AnonOrange Gold Meritorious Patron

    You almost got your wish two years ago, when I got a fat tire in July with my RV in Death Valley while the temperature was (IN THE SHADE) 127 deg F (50 deg C). I had to walk a couple of miles, which was not too bad, but my GF from Belgium came close to fainting. She never came close to any kind of heat like that. Her face was very red and took a couple of hours to recover.

    Back to the e-meter test, where else could I try to plug it in? :)
  13. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    It has nothing much to do with how the meter is used in auditing. I have no idea if the investigative committee consists of somewhat reasonable people or if they are all as closed-minded as you. If I were in LA and available to do this test, which I won't be, I would want to talk to the head honcho ahead of time and tell him what I wanted to do, and what should happen. If following that procedure was agreeable to him, I may or may not get it in writing depending on how much I trusted what he said, then I would go ahead and do it. A crucial part of the experiment would probably be having you in another room or at least shackled and covered in duct tape so you didn't interfere at all as I couldn't trust you to allow an experiment acceptable to me to proceed uninterrupted.

    My experiment would involve someone holding the cans normally, sitting down comfortably, who is willing to be honest and contribute to the activity, not do all he could to screw it up. I find the pinch test somewhat unsatisfactory. I would get in communication with the guy while holding the cans, and direct his attention to various items in his life that would be charged, whatever I could find. Maybe marital disharmony, work troubles, debts, whatever. The needle reactions and TA movements would be noted. Charged items may be desensitized or they may not. It would be good to desensitize some topic so the meter changes could be noted by the investigators. After all, in a session the meter is used to find stuff to run, to show that topics are discharging, and to finally show that a topic has been discharged, at least for the time being.

  14. AnonOrange

    AnonOrange Gold Meritorious Patron

    Jim is a super nice guy and would be very happy to hear from you. I'll pm you his phone and e-mail address. You'll find him very reasonable and open to your comments. Unlike me, he won't dismiss the device offhand, which is why he's requesting someone that knows the e-meters to explain it to his group. He's genuinely interested to learn about it.

    In your second paragrah above, the big problem is that the meter is being held by HANDS, which twitch, move and sweat. In my rather short experience with the e-meter (I did one test), I found that the hand contact is what drives most if not all the needle fluctuations.

    When you do an experiment, you have to remove as many disrupting influences as much as possible. If the purpose of the e-meter is to measure electrical conductance through the body, then clearly, the hand contact interferes with the measurement. As we discussed several times, skin patches (as used for lie detectors) would be better. I feel that measuring the body's resistance through needles under the skin would be even better.

    Give me one good reason, (except because Hubbard said so) that this would be an inferior way to test.
  15. Lohan2008

    Lohan2008 Gold Meritorious Patron


  16. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    Body thetans are not in your body. They are attached by thier energy fields to others energy fields, which can correspond roughly to the space of "the body" but is not the same thing.

    The sensation of the needles would invalidate the test anyway.

    If you dont like cans, try electrodes as an alternative.
  17. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    The needles would create a sensation that would interfer with the results.
  18. AnonOrange

    AnonOrange Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well then Mr. sci pants, why do you even bother making the subject hold the cans? A good pair of TV rabbit ears near the guy should be good enough right?

    Exactly what do you mean about "the sensation of the needles". Sensation or sensitivity? I posit that the e-meter will read a nice steady uniform reading (as I read in the Anderson report). If the needles are more sensitive, then the meter should fluctuate more right?

    Needles in the veins are better than stick on electrodes. It's clear, why can't your guys see that? What the hell, maybe I'll try the electrodes too!
  19. AnonOrange

    AnonOrange Gold Meritorious Patron

    Duplicate. It's not censorship, I swear!
  20. AnonOrange

    AnonOrange Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well gee, wouldn't you want to test it then?

    Right now I maintain that the HANDS interfere greatly with the results. That's the whole problem with using the e-meter to measure anything with the body.

    If cans were so great, why don't the lie detector companies use them?

    10:1 bet anyone?