New "FU" Video for David Miscavige & Church of Scientology's Abuse

[Safe]

This would make a good thesis to throw somebody into apathy, so they throw in the towel. Instead of my efforts, I could just give up trying to do some good in the assistance of de-inculcation, and say fuck it. But I'm not quite willing to presume, based on another opinion, that what I'm doing will not work. Only time will tell.

If one has a better plan, which can be proved to be engaging and working, let me know and I'll be the first person to try it.

I'm always amused at some pessimistic nay-sayers, such as those who apparently enjoy giving negative book reviews about a subject, yet they utterly fail to offer an alternative book. There's a willingness to pose a problem, or show a problem with the solution, yet there's an utter failure to point out alternatives to that problem.

These types are those whom I consider the ultimate pessimists. Nothing will ever be good enough or work. lol.

 

[degraded being]

This would make a good thesis to throw somebody into apathy, so they throw in the towel. Instead of my efforts, I could just give up trying to do some good in the assistance of de-inculcation, and say fuck it. But I'm not quite willing to presume, based on another opinion, that what I'm doing will not work. Only time will tell.

If one has a better plan, which can be proved to be engaging and working, let me know and I'll be the first person to try it.

I'm always amused at some pessimistic nay-sayers, such as those who apparently enjoy giving negative book reviews about a subject, yet they utterly fail to offer an alternative book. There's a willingness to pose a problem, or show a problem with a solution, yet there's an utter failure to point out alternatives to that problem.

These types are those whom I consider the ultimate pessimists. Nothing will ever be good enough or work. lol.

In a strictly practical sense, what you want to do may have value. I don't deny that.
But this board has members who have seen people's lives ruined and some who had their own lives ruined by Hubbard. Once the scales have dropped from their eyes there is no way they will put them back on, they feel compelled to point to Hubbard. The idea of using the dishonest (yet possibly practical strategy) of using DM as a scapegoat is not appealing to them personally because it is dishonest. This is in the context of being brainwashed with "The truth will set you free" and the general value placed on "truth" in scientology, while being constantly decieved. Is it any wonder that they are a bit sensitive about deliberately misleading people by overlooking hubbard?

Since 'faith' has been mentioned, what I am saying here is based on faith that you are not misleading people here too. I assume you are not. But I have had faith in indies before and thought that board members were too tough on them. I was a bit naive.
The things I have mentioned are some of the conditions that exist for people who have left scientology. Like it or not. I hope you do maximum damage to the cult of scientology and to the thinking patterns/limitations that make people vulnerable to cults.

Disclaimer..I have spoken for ESMB members in general. I know not all of them would agree with me.

 

[Xenu's Boyfriend]

degraded being makes a really good point here.

Safe,

I looked at your video again, because I appreciate your point about what you are trying to do and I definitely don't want to be a "hater", someone who just criticizes to discourage without offering constructive criticism, or suggestions. I don't want to discourage you, but I also know that once you put out a creation, people have their own relationship to it, whether you want them to or not.

I appreciate this conversation because I think it bring up a bigger point that comes up over and over again, as people talk about Independent Scientology vs. CoS. I think the issue here is audience. If you video goes on YouTube by the way, there may be public Scientologists who are with the church who will see this, and maybe a few in the Sea Org who also dare to look. It sounds like your intention is to reach them, even if you have to make some compromises.

The issue I have is that I think there is another era of Scientology, and that is the "post-Anonymous" era we people like me. I am a wog (and proud to be) who somehow has become very involved in this movement. It's incredible to me that I have never had a single Scientology course, I don't know any Scientologists personally (that I'm aware of) and yet I can sit down and freely use terms like Sec Checks, entheta, enturbulate, RPF, Potential Trouble Source, KSW, etc..it's like speaking a foreign language sometimes. I have people's stories in my head that I will never forget - and I can tell you what COB did to Jeff Hawkins, Nancy Many, Marc and Claire Headley, Amy Scobee, not to mention Paulette Cooper and the IRS. I know about the RPF's RPF, the Sea Org, and I can tell you in full detail what happened to Lisa McPherson and the facts of her case...the list goes on.

My point here is not to brag but that there was a time not too long ago when I knew about none of this. (Perhaps being anti-Scientology has it's own magnetism that draws you in...) And I know that I am not alone. There are many of us, probably more than active Scientologists who are watching videos like the one you created. We are constantly evaluating what is happening in Scientology based on this media.

I will be honest, I did walk into an Org iabout 6 months ago - they just put one up in my neighborhood and I was curious. I was back on the street about fifteen minutes later. The person who helped me looked fucked-up, and harassed, and I thought, in a reverse, When Harry Met Sally, "I'm NOT having what she's having."

I have, however, flirted in the past with the idea (before I knew more) that maybe Scientology really does have the answer, no matter how much pain is involved. And I'm not a stupid person, I've just need help from time to time. After what I've learned since then about the organization from sites like this and the internet, there is no way in hell I would give Scientology a bus transfer, much less any of my hard-earned money.

My point is, you start the video with "To Confront and Tell the Truth" Sounds Great. You mentioned being "Accurately Informed"...I'm with you! But when we get to the part of Ron's gift, and the part of the tech being free, that's where I'm wondering, where is the free Scientology? Does it really exist? Is that what the movement truly about, or is that the direction things are moving for Independents?

Obviously, you're free to put out there whatever you'd like, but I still feel that focusing on Ron the man, as opposed to the technology if that is what you want to promote, might be good for the Scientologists you are trying to attract, but could send new public Scientologists to their nearby Org because they want "Ron's gift" and aren't deterred because they have no plan on ever encountering or experiencing David Miscavige and have no idea who the hell he is. In other words, your video is a "Fuck You" for D.M, but it is also, after the halfway mark, an advertisement promoting Scientology. That's what makes me uncomfortable. But I will take this over nothing, because having DM out is definitely a positive start for something.

XB

(The other thing I don't understand, did Ron have to be so physically repulsive to look at, especially near the end? Holy Shit, wasn't there anyone around to tell him, it would be easier for us to sell this self-help crap if you didn't look like a full-blown turd blossom half the time? I see the pictures everyone is saluting and I feel, branding wise, "Ron" doesn't even look like he uses his own product. But that may be a conversation for another day.

 

[Safe]

I think some are taking the video too seriously, and perhaps missing the point that its main purpose is to promote my forum to Scientologists. Once they get to the forum, is where their de-inculcation begins, and start learning some truths. The video won't do that. So I need to start at their points of agreement to get their attention.

I believe most Scientologists would agree that LRH's works were left for everybody, not David Miscavige, and some elite board members in a corporation, and that LRH's works need to be freed from the monopoly, which monopoly has given DM his center of power, and the power to manipulate.

IMO, the first step to dethrone the man from power is to first expose all his alterations and deletions of the works of LRH. This is easy for each Scientologist to prove for themselves, and that will prove that Miscavige is a "squirrel". If enough Scientologists find out about this, Davey will not last long.

To keep saying how David Miscavige beats on people is too "out-reality" for most Scientologists. It has not been effective to dethrone DM. What WILL connect with Scientologists is finding out COB has not been applying KSW, and that he's been altering and deleting LRH's works, the very person in charge of keeping it "pure". For a Scientologist, this is a much higher crime than assaulting other staff members, and will outrage them.

The second step is to free LRH's works and get them in the public domain. That is done by challenging the copyrights. It appears the copyrights to LRH works were stolen. This will be much easier to do after DM is taken out of power. As soon as DM is taken out of power, a hell of a lot of oppression is going to be taken off every staff member, and the public, and many will be able to decompress and start the process of regaining their sanity.

The oppression going on is in present time, and its done by a top down dictatorship. Once DM is fully exposed, there will be a new breed of skeptical Scientologists not so quick to believe. Policies will have to be questioned. It will be discovered that LRH was WRONG in many policies. This will lead to questioning LRH's infallibility. Then it will lead to going over all the "technology", and checking for errancy.

What I see missing is a vision of this happening. This is the direction I'm trying to move towards. I hope that makes clearer what I'm trying to accomplish.

Progressive Christianity (my religion) doesn't believe in the inerrancy of the Bible. Progressive Scientologists (an idea I'm trying to promote) doesn't believe in the inerrancy of Scientology scripture, either. Progressive Christianity promotes all paths to God. Progressive Scientologists promote all paths to self betterment. Progressive Christianity is inclusive. So is Progressive Scientology. One will find that visiting my new forum and more so as time progresses. Just look at the sections.

The problem with the independent Scientology movement, as I see it, is that Miscavige is all bad, and Hubbard is all good. This is just more of the same inculcation, except it's outside the church, not inside it.

 

[Xenu's Boyfriend]

WTF?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKr-7LjXhpA&feature=relmfu

There are more and more of these on You Tube. Is this their way of fighting back? I think they are flooding the channel, so that if you type in Scientology, this is the stuff you get.

 

[Arthur Dent]

Hubbard has a monopoly on wisdom?? :confused2: I don't think so!

Ford, although a shameless antisemitic, eventually saw the error of his ways in controlling the private lives of his employees, unlike Hubbard.

Wikipedia snippet:
The profit-sharing was offered to employees who had worked at the company for six months or more, and, importantly, conducted their lives in a manner of which Ford's "Social Department" approved. They frowned on heavy drinking, gambling, and what might today be called "deadbeat dads". The Social Department used 50 investigators, plus support staff, to maintain employee standards; a large percentage of workers were able to qualify for this "profit-sharing."
Ford's incursion into his employees' private lives was highly controversial, and he soon backed off from the most intrusive aspects. By the time he wrote his 1922 memoir, he spoke of the Social Department and of the private conditions for profit-sharing in the past tense, and admitted that "paternalism has no place in industry. Welfare work that consists in prying into employees' private concerns is out of date. Men need counsel and men need help, oftentimes special help; and all this ought to be rendered for decency's sake. But the broad workable plan of investment and participation will do more to solidify industry and strengthen organization than will any social work on the outside. Without changing the principle we have changed the method of payment."[30]

 

[Safe]

Hubbard has a monopoly on wisdom?? :confused2: I don't think so!

[30]

Did somebody here make that argument? lol.

 

[oneonewasaracecar]

Yup. He sure did. I'm sure Henry Ford had his own opinions about how nobody could progress his automobile technology better than he. Perhaps all originators of "new" ideas have such narcissistic ideas and tendencies.

Firstly, Ron did not come up with new ideas. He took the confusion technique from Milton Erikkson, the study tech from a late 19th Century book, the wall of fire from a comic book and Operation Snow White from the Watergate scandal. I could go on like this for hours.

Neither Albert Einstein, nor P.A.M.Dirac, nor Richard Feynman were narcicists. Again, I could go on for hours.

If Scientology is a science and technology (which I know there's much debate),

Among scientists, there is no debate. From the beginning Isaac Azimov gave dianetics a 2 word review - utter gibberish. Azimov was unlike Hubbard in that he was both a good science fiction writer and a scientist.

The only study of Scientology ever done by a scientist that I am aware of is the Fischer study which found that it's claims were untrue. It is freely available online.

There have been no scientific papers ever published by Hubbard or even found.

Whenever I see the word science with a prefix or a suffix, I can be reasonably certain on this basis alone that there is unlikely to be anything of scientific merit contained within. Scientific racism, Scientology, creation science and the like are referred to as pseudoscience.

then it can be improved, no matter what Hubbard's opinion is. He is wrong. It's been difficult to get the idea that Hubbard is fallible across to the inculcated, but some are coming around with persistence.

Scientology is a system of disguised subtle hypnotic techniques to extract money from people without providing any demonstrable therapeutic effect. To say that Scientology can be reformed is the same as saying that the system of disguised subtle hypnotic techniques to extract money from people without providing any demonstrable therapeutic effect can be improved.

This is true, I suppose, but improving Scientology in this way is not of any benefit to the victims of it.

Scientology does not need to improve people's lives. It only needs to convince people that it has improved their lives. People should not pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for a placebo.

Edit: I understand what you are trying to do, but I don't agree with it. I could easily be wrong that it might be a good strategy and might get some people out. So good luck anyway.

 

[Ho Tai]

Here is a new video I produced. Eat this David Miscavige and Cof$!

[video=youtube;D8MJbPw8LyA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8MJbPw8LyA[/video]

I'm both sorry and compulsive about my comment here, but if you are going to make a killer video, you have to have your grammar correct. At 55 seconds it should say "for you, me, everybody." The indiscriminate substitution of "I" for "me" is a plague upon our times. OK, back to the substantive comments.

 

[NoName]

Works for me. I think people have to exit on a gradient. Whether the people in Martyland or Safe's forum end up ditching all of it eventually, I dunno. But I, for one, decided a long time ago that I would not criticize beliefs, only abusive acts.

To the extent that the tech produces the abuse - well, I think that there is some significant potential for abuse built into the tech. But also, I realize that those fuckers from the Westboro Baptist Church read and believe in the same Bible that I do. Actually, there are quite a few abusive groups based on work that I believe to be sacred - and if you've ever read Leviticus, you probably know that there is some pretty significant potential for abuse built into the Bible as well.

So yeah, I've said that people in the FZ practice "cafeteria" Scn, and I think Martyland Indies do that too (probably less so, since Marty is more dissent-averse than most of the FZ'ers I've talked to). If people want to selectively practice the non-abusive Scno tech, they can have at it as far as I am concerned. I'd be thrilled if I found out that my "in" friends got involved with any of this sort of stuff, because I wouldn't be worried about the tech killing them or bankrupting them.

To the extent that stuff like this can speak to the still-in, and get them to practice a less risky form of Scientology, I'm all for it. Good work.

 

[Safe]

What forum does one send a Scientologist to for the least likely amount of inculcation (implanting)?

I can't send them here, it's too steep of gradient. Scientologists will get squashed here, IMO. Is there another forum which isn't a Miscavige evil/Hubbard good or Miscavige and Hubbard both evil, forum?

My forum is trying to take an inclusive path which I hope works. I don't know if it will, but I figure it's worth trying. By inclusive, I mean discussions of many paths. For example, here are some of my Forum's sections:

Orthodox Standard LRH Technology
Discussion of 100% LRH Standard Specifications of Scientology


Progressive Standard Scientology Technology
Standard Technology and discussion of Workable Tech beyond original LRH specifications


Spiritual Research and Development
Unproven territory in spiritual technology


Proven Squirrel Practices
Discussion of specific squirrel practices and why they are


Alternative Technologies and Practices
Discussion of alternative spiritual practices for self-development and spiritual growth

Sub Forums: Idenics, Knowledgism, PaulsRobot


NVC - Non-Violent Communication Technology
The practice of compassionate, non-violent communication methods


(EBP) Evidenced-Based Practice of Psychology
Discussion of how the latest practices of psychology are doing today.

Sub Forums: Freud's Psychoanalysis.


Psychological Manipulation & Coercive Mind Control
Discussion of the methods people and groups use to control others through coercive persuasion and manipulation.

Sub Forums: Recovery from Abuse

For Groups, I have ...

Independent Scientology Movement
Scientologists not affiliated with the Church of Scientology who still practice Scientology
Sub Forums: Marty Rathbun's Blog

Corporate Scientology (CSI/RTC/CST)
Discussion on how the Church of Scientology, Inc. practices Scientology and its leadership, David Miscavige

Ex Scientologists
Folks who no longer wave the label "Scientologist"

Anonymous
Discussion for those who are very critical of Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard, the Church of Scientology and/or any part of the Independent Scientology movement.


Suggestions and ideas for improvements or additions are welcome.