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New guy on the block - 'cept I'm a girl

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by mich, Feb 18, 2012.

  1. vumba

    vumba Danielle Chamberlin

    Mich wag a bitje... take your time.... I am learning new stuff everyday. Don't feel that you have to answer everything all at once. You have all the time in the world now, without any fear or time limits, musters, or ethics breathing down your neck. I have found that many of the people who have been on this site for ages are so used to new people asking the same sort of questions, and they don't get impatient, and were a great help to me. If you take your time to look around the site, you will see, at the beginning on the first main page, options to click onto "frequently asked questions" etc. There is sooo much info here you can always find an answer somewhere. Lots of support too.:eyeroll:
  2. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    You seem very bright and able. There is so much info available on ESMB, if only it could be sorted out and indexed, people newly out such as yourself could have a sort of E-book available to them.

    One last word and then I'll leave you to your own research. This board is deeply divided into factions. There are many factions but they sort out into 3 broad categories:

    #1 - Freezone and Independent Scientologists. These are guys who still hold LRH and all his tech as sacrosanct or sort of the "gospel". They believe that all the ills of the current church result from DM and C of S Management.

    #2 - I don't know what to call this group - maybe pragmatists. These people, including myself, will use any type of tech in life as long as it works. This would include some tech from LRH, plus tech from some Scio offshoots such as Knowledgism, some tech from psychology and social work, plus medical tech, both standard and holistic, plus meditating, metaphysics, religion, etc.

    Alll in this group both had wins both receiving Scio services and delivering them to others. We are disappointed in LRH or more like outraged for creating the harmful tech used in C of S. Yet we feel that some of his tech has validity, for example, the conditions formulas which you actually used to leave the C of S. We don't want to throw out the baby with the bath water.

    #3 - This group feels that LRH tech has no validity other than maybe a little intro data to get people hooked in. They feel this intro data can be attained elsewhere at a much more reasonable cost and without all the insanities imposed by C of S.

    The keynote of this group is that they all have either suffered tremendous personal damage through participating in C of S or their relatives and loved ones have. This extends to physical health issues, mental and psychological health issues breakups of families and businesses and even deaths. Many are left pennyless in old age, having been separated from thier retirement funds by C of S.

    This group feels that because of these defects, people should be completely spared from getting involved with C of S and this includes its offshoots, the Independant Field and the Freezoners.

    So their you have it. Good luck in your search for answers. It looks like you have already made a very good start!
  3. Claire Swazey

    Claire Swazey Spokeshole, fence sitter

    Wait a sec... Lakey, you know bettah...there's a range of opinions amongst Freezoners and Independents. Many of them do hold Hubbard responsible for the problems in Scn and CofS. Many of them do not attribute sole responsibility to Miscavige.
  4. olska

    olska Silver Meritorious Patron

    Your words, my emphasis, above.

    Despite its entertainment value, I really wish you and the others who do so would stop promoting this falsity. It gives new readers a skewed impression of others who post here, in particular those who find El Ron Hubbard, the horse he rode in on, all his "work," and those who hallow his name and his "contribution," or their even-more-complex attempts to salvage or improve upon it, ridiculous.

    It's easy to tell from the posts I've made on this board, that I'm one of this group "#3" that you seem to think you know so much ALL about.

    But contrary to your beliefs, I (for one) have not suffered any "tremendous personal damage" from El Ron's con game, nor have any of my relatives or loved ones. I have no "health issues" -- I'm a senior citizen in excellent health both physical and mental (though I grant there may be some people out there in the in the world, even some on this forum, who might disagree with me as regards the mental aspect...).

    Any "breakups" in family or business relationships amongst my circle were brought about by issues quite outside the realm of scientology and were moved on from long ago.

    As for deaths, well, yes I've seen a few of those as will we all if we haven't already, but none close to me were caused by Hubbard or "scientology" or anyone associated with either.

    What money I spent on scientology I wrote off long ago, along with sums spent on a few other priceless learning experiences, as tuition in the University of Life.

    Despite never achieving the fortunes enjoyed by many of those who fell for and were ripped off by Hubbard's scam, I'm far from "pennyless" and in fact am enjoying a modest, but comfortable retirement, unencumbered by either debt or obsessive-compulsive materialism, thank you very much.

    Some of us simply realized, early on, that the whole thing was a fraud and that any little bits of useful "tech" it had to offer were not worth the asking price; moreover, the longer we live the more we realize that getting lost in a maze of any kind complicated "tech" is unlikely to bring one to an enjoyable and productive state of mind. Who knows -- you may yet one day arrive at that realization yourself.

    Meahwhile, thank you for your profound, prolific, and utterly phucked-up judgments of the members of this forum who don't see things as you do.

    Wishing you a KISS (Keep It Simple, Sir)
  5. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    Go for it! :thumbsup:
  6. Claire Swazey

    Claire Swazey Spokeshole, fence sitter

    I hope Burned gets back every penny.
  7. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    Ah, now, cut the man some slack LOL ! Some have to be right and if you don't agree with them then they are going to tell the world how wrong you are - and do so in very broad sweeping terms.

    I think old Hubbard and all his shit stinks.. Me ? Been married a pretty long time, live comfortably, and don't feel " damaged" by scn ( disallusioned ? Yes. I did that to me ). My story is pretty boring : I saw scn didn't work the way it was claimed to work, so I did all my family and extended family. None of my loved ones got left "in".

    So rather than destitue and damaged with a broken family I just really don't like scn because is delusional lies designed to rake in money, period. Don't much care for the people here on ESMB that promote it either.

    And I realize some - even here - still feel "the tek works" - and they are entitled to that opinion.... but watch 'em try to sell it here LOL ! And in my opinion, that deliberate and intentional selling the scn delusion is just sick... very sick.
  8. Welcome Burned! :) Very glad that you could join us! :wave:

    I hope you get back all the money wasted on Scientology. It is such a costly fraud! (Sorry folks, I mean no offense to any still kinda believers, but I'm in Lakey's group "Type Three" :biggrin: Didn't anybody else notice that?? :dieslaughing:

    Sorry, Scientology in joke... for the lurkers... to be labeled a "potential trouble source- type three" is the same as calling someone crazy or insane. :giggle:

    There are several good threads here on getting refunds, etc. with good practical advice from those who have "won" at this game.

    By the way, Ron didn't originate THAT, either..."games theory" was BIG when he was first writing Dianetics, and all that followed...

    Here are some possibly helpful threads on the topic of getting your money back (My mind boggles at over $200,000. You musta been in a loooong time!):

    This one strikes me as VERY useful:

    And there are all these as well...likely others that I didn't find, too:

    Good luck, I hope you get every penny back! :happydance:

    And make as much bad publicity for COS in the process as possible, as a warning to others! :thumbsup:
  9. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    WTF? :confused2:

    Face :)
  10. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    :lol: It's just another variety of know-best auditing/therapy/counseling, in this one it's apparently OK to evaluate for the recipient.
  11. ChurchOfCylontology

    ChurchOfCylontology Patron with Honors

    mich, it is great to see you posting here and some of us are eager to read your story. I do want to put a bug in your ear, though, and I hope you can read this as someone concerned about the abuses within Scientology's walls:

    If you saw anything that you suspect is a crime including but not limited to assault, battery, fraud, misrepresentation, or ANYTHING that someone within the organization did in front of you, please PLEASE think of reporting it to law enforcement. If you aren't sure of which law enforcement to contact, you can ask Emma or Tikk or someone on this board with experience.

    The abuses that happen within Scientology go unreported and unfortunately continue. By the time people escape and put their minds and lives back together and realize that they witnessed these crimes, it may be too late. The more that people report these as soon as they get out, the better for those stuck inside.

    DM gets away with his crimes for many reasons but one reason is that no one reports what they see until years afterwards. If you've seen something, please report it. It may do nothing or it may save someone you know. You seem like someone with serious balls so I hope that you would take my advice seriously.
  12. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    I just giggle when one of those still dedicated scientologists labels me a " Type 3 ".

    Makes me proud that some people consider me the way they do.

    Like my Daddy always said " Consider the source " so, I can do a big :happydance: at being called Type 3 by that one.

    Another one left the cult, now, to get the thread back on the rails.

    Love to see new people here ! Glad to see more people join us.

    Welcome !
  13. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Well, I said many categories and tried to separate it into three broad categories. You make a good point that there are variations amongst the Freezoners and Indies.
    Maybe I should have made 4 categories, breaking the Freezoners and Indies into two groups as your post suggests.

    BTW, these categories do not always remain rigid or static. Many come here in Category 1 and end up in category 2 or 3. Once you are in 3 people seem to stay there permanently. Sometimes a category 3 will concede a small point to a category 2 but 3's are out and stay out. Category 3 could be subdivided further. Some 3's were in for a long time, held important posts and know tons of tech but they have reasoned that 3 is the best category while some 3's didn't have much exposure and just know that they don't want anything to do with Scn as a sort of knee jerk reaction to a bad experience they experienced while in
  14. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    The things I wrote are my opinions. Not everyone will agree with someone's opinion and I know going in that many will not agree. If a disagreement is stated in good faith, as Claire Swazey's was, I take a good look at it and will perhaps ammend my post, as I did in her case. Bitter hostile posts using cuss words and such are just background noise as I see it. Such posters have the right to post here also and I respect that. They are entitled to their say and other ESMB members can judge whether they agree with those types of posts or not.

    It took me a long time to see that there were essentially 5 types of groups who were reading and/or posting on ESMB. Three of the five were the ones I covered in my recent post. The 4th group is composed of people who were never in Scientology but are researching it as scholars or just out of interest. Of course the 5th group are OSA plants pretending to be exes.

    I said the 3 groups were a very broad subdivision and that each group TENDED to have certain characteristics. Some in group 3 say they are different; they did not experience this or that trait which I mentioned. I say again that my classifications are broad and not detailed.


    They have every right to leave the group and its subject behind and move on with their lives but why do they fight so hard to dissuade all others from saying that any part of the subject has actually helped anyone. IT IS THIS QUESTION WHICH CAUSES ONE TO WANT TO "PULL A STRING" TO SEE WHY THEY DO THIS WITH SO MUCH PASSION AND SO MUCH FORCE, often including cussing and downgrading anyone who differs with their opinion!

    The most compelling reason which I have found for this type of behavior is what I have said above and that usually involves a family being broken up, a business being destroyed or someone's health and finances being ruined or a love one dieing while in C of S. This might not always be the case. Maybe someone such as Olska is just being altruistic and feels strongly that the subject is harmful and doesn't want exes or brand new people to use it. This is certainly possible.

    What puzzles me is that if someone agrees that the basic subject is bad but insists that they got some major gains out of certain parts of the subject and want to keep using those parts, an altruistic person would let it go at that. The fact that group 3's do not let go at that point and never stop fighting that person shows me that there must be something else driving them other than only altruism.

    Anyway, when someone such as Mich comes on the board, I just want to share some of the insights which I built up over 2 years or so on ESMB so as to speed up her search for truths on this forum. People arriving newly on ESMB do not know there are several opposing factions here which will be giving them advice and encouragement. There is no need to go on a treadmill for months before they figure this out. Why not just tell them up front that different factions exist so that they will know what to expect?
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
  15. GreyLensman

    GreyLensman Silver Meritorious Patron

    Good place to learn. checkout
    I found ESMB immediately after reading through a lot of Ex Scn Kids - and recognizing some of the stories and people.
  16. mich

    mich Patron

    Dankie! I guess I feel like I wasted too much time, and now I kinda have to start from the beginning. At least I'm a little wiser...:thumbsup:
  17. mich

    mich Patron

    Thank you - it's good to have a sane terminal.

    I have noticed the "I hate" brigade, and I understand that they are at least coming up-tone from pain. I don't blame them, to be honest. I can't say what my response would be if I had experienced some of what I've read.

    I also have a good friend and my first auditor who feels like the indie-freezoners do. I wish I could agree with him, but I don't see any evidence of their success. However, as a member of the "pragmatists" I have not closed that door, not while there's a chance that they have found a way. I don't even expect them to find another bridge - I would be happy to use what works, even if it only handles one aspect of my being.

    So, from what you've said about us pragmatists, I feel I can ask you a question. I have been looking into any and every possible spiritual "window". I have still got to sort out my financial status (I guess I got too used to the can't-have on staff), so I have taken advantage of a great offer and downloaded over a hundred free e-books. I'm making my way through them - some (like the Book of Mormon) are long and painfully slow to read - in the search for potential "good" data.

    I recently bumped into something quite interesting, and (here's the question) was wondering if you had read "Escaping Hell" (can be found at with DOC as free e-book download) or been to the site? A lot of what I read sounded like something LRH might have read about and simplified. To be honest, I found the book a little rough going, but once I got to the site I felt I understood the data better.I think I'll post it on the message board to see if anyone out there has read it, and see what they think too.

    Is there anything you have found that might be of interest to me? I am interested in what works, for sure, but I am more interested in understanding the eternal "who are we, and why are we here" questions. I also have a few memories from session that I'm looking for a better explanation for, if you know what I mean.

    I look forward to hearing from you...
  18. mich

    mich Patron

    Hey Claire,

    This is good to know! I guess the gradient scale applies. Can you suggest places I could find more data?

    mich (Michelle Babich BTW, but my friends call me mich - also one who prefers to stand in the sunlight, not exactly loud, but proud.
  19. mich

    mich Patron

    LOL!!! Well put! And thanks for the reality check. Admittedly I haven't arrived at that realization - or any other for that matter - but I appreciate the chance to experience your viewpoint. I am still in a no-man's land, but this time a little more careful. As the saying goes "if you don't know what you stand for, you'll fall for anything". I guess the only thing I stand for is the right of each individual to determine their own individuality, and have the opportunity to add to or change that individuality as and when they will. And as for falling - well, I hope I've learnt my lesson with the CofS.

    I really do appreciate the chance to experience (if only to a small degree) your viewpoint. To be honest, nothing gives me more pleasure. I have never tried to put this into words before, but 'knowing' people is more fun than 'knowing' facts - if you know what I mean. And again, well put. If you hadn't communicated it so well I wouldn't have had the pleasure.:duh:

    I will bear this in mind, and hopefully avoid shoving the individuality I claim to stand for into some homogeneous mass. Thanks
  20. mich

    mich Patron

    Thanks! And great advice! I've been thinking about it, to see if I can scrape up something, and I realised that's exactly why I didn't leave earlier! There was nothing that I witnessed that I could point to as a crime. Just a lot of "doesn't make sense" stuff, that there was always some kinda BS answer for, if you asked. However, when I get my story down I will review my experience with a critical eye, and if I find anything I disagree.... hold on a sec! Something just came to my mind. As far as I know, in my country (South Africa), there are certain rules that have to be followed in terms of types of organisations. For example, I don't think you are allowed to raise funds without a fundraising number, which has to appear on your stationery. Then there's the minimum wage thing....

    I guess I'm gonna have to do some homework, find out what the rules are, and report anything that's not okay. Isn't that, after all, what Ron says to do?:thumbsup: