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New guy on the block - 'cept I'm a girl

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by mich, Feb 18, 2012.

  1. mich

    mich Patron

    Thanks, Lakey. As usual a top-notch sane reaction. And BTW it is helpful to have an overview as a guide. I guess we all know about gradient scales, and that applies to people as much as to anything else, but a generalization can be useful to a newbie like me, so I can find my feet.

    Still, I am grateful to Olska for reminding me that it is just a generalization.

    I, too, am curious as to why those who rail against anything and everything connected to Scientology are so adamant. The thing that worries me is that there must be a reason for some scn to work, and are they not cutting themselves off from that? If you do a little homework you find that Freud and LRH agreed on much, because Freud influenced LRH. So if you come across someone else who is helping others based on what they learnt from Freud, do you cut them off 'cause it sounds like scn? What about all the other stuff Ron plagiarised? It seems to me you could lose more than you gain....
  2. Arthur Dent

    Arthur Dent Silver Meritorious Patron

    Hey Mitch!
    You've generated a good, lively thread! Just read through it.
    I came here and it blew my mind. I was glued to the internet for weeks and went through every emotion imaginable! I stayed because I wasn't pigeon-holed or categorized. I like to think we are an evolving species. And us on the board, a microcosm of that. None of us are fully baked in my opinion. There is no one way to be or to think. I am not of any one belief, but the Buddists say if you meet someone on the road that says he is Buddha, kill him, because he is false. Budda is within. I like this particular view as it allows for growth.

    I was in for a really long time. The amount of un-doing of the mind-fuck takes a lot of facing up to self and the cult's actions, teaching and intentions. The self part takes time and is a good journey. Keep peeling the onion and have a very good time becoming more and more yourself every day. Although I've been out longer, when I least expect it, I run into ways I think that have roots in the cult and I'm always glad for the opportunity to inspect them and let those shackles fall away!

    There is much to read and digest! So very glad you're here!
  3. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    I don't know your friends views. However their is a thread here
    " Freezone Success Stories" where there is much evidence of success.
  4. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Mich, thanks for the kind words! Also thanks for the straightforward communication and the references that you put up for me and other board members to comment on. I am not familiar with "Escaping Hell" but will check it out. On the Book of Mormon, it is interesting that you mentioned that.

    Way back when I was 20, I was not finding what I was looking for in my birth religion of Judaism so I started looking for other things. One day an older man and his grandson knocked on the door where I was living. They were Mormons and I was home alone and for 2 hours they disseminated Mormonism to me. I finally let them inside and offered them some refreshments. Finally, they said they had to leave and gave me a copy of the Book of Mormon. The did not want any money but I insisted so they accepted $2 to cover printing charges.

    I thought God had led them to me and Mormonism would become my faith but after struggling through the first two chapters of the book, I thought its contents were too farfetched; you know, Jesus reincarnating in North America several hundred years after his crucifixtion and preaching to the American Indians. At the time I was a science and math major in college and did not believe in past lives. Also, I did not believe that Jesus was a diety but thought of him as a wise philosopher. In short, I thought the Mormon story was preposterous.

    Nevertheless, the man and his grandson made a profound positive impression on me. As I began working in my early 20's, I ran into several Mormon's at work, including a young woman who I was attracted to. The Mormons seemed to be a couple of cuts above the average person in society in many important ways.

    They were better listeners and communicators, they kept their word and kept appointments they made, they did not drink booze or even coffee or tea, they did not take part in gambling and they seemed more aware, more spiritual and more caring than the average person. I loved coffee and was a blackjack player but still I was very impressed. This phenomena has held true my entire life. Doing business with a Mormon always felt safer, you have a feeling that they would always be honest and never cheat you.

    The bottom line is that while I could not relate to what the book of Mormon had to say in its opening chapters, I must admit that it's teachings produce people and citizens who are well above the average person as far as being good people.

    To answer the questions which you posed to me, I am going to send you a Private Message rather than discuss it here on the board so be sure and check your PM's.
  5. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    It isn't so much that scn " doesn't work ".. in fact, sometimes, it does " work". What some of the, uh, earnest ones here sort of skip is defining " works ". ( And scios LOVE definitions... except when it doesn't prove their point - LOL ! )

    One can dig a ditch with a teaspoon. It works ! yes, by golly, one can dig a ditch with a teaspoon and be honest in claiming " IT WORKS "! Why ? Because it does work.
    Fast ? Efficient ? Reasonably economical ? Even meet most peoples understanding of just barely garden variety sane ? No.... but , hey, it works !

    Would a shovel be far better and faster to dig a ditch with? Less wear and tear on the digger ? All that ? Yep. But that teaspoon works !

    Oh boy... a Ditch Witch or backhoe to dig a ditch ? Whoa ... now we are talking fast and very efficient.

    Scientology is like the teaspoon digging a ditch ... and it sure does work. And many people get stuck using only that 'teaspoon' - and they are entitled to stay with a teaspoon and dig for all eternity.

    There are things some 1,000 times faster than scn... and better results....and tens of thousands upon tens of thousands of dollars less expensive.

    Some are going to sing the praises of scn. Perhaps they are incapable of moving beyond it and I submit there is more to the world than scn ( Thank Gawd ! ).

    I do hope all enjoy their stay here and look many places for their own path to whatever it is they wish to achieve in life ( which, BTW, are we going to hear from some that they believe they achieved everything they ever wanted - and more - in scn ? Yes !
    My answer? Apparently, some people expectations were pretty darn easy to exceed by using scn !)

    Takes a lot of digging to get to " clear " .
    Has one scientologist yet to really achieve " clear " as defind by LRH ?
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
  6. Claire Swazey

    Claire Swazey Spokeshole, fence sitter

    Hmm...good question. I would say that on ESMB, if someone whose posts you're reading seems to be a non CofS Scientologist, see what he says. There are people here who are such and who've indicated great disagreement with Hubbard. My point being- that it really depends on the individual. Since the non CofS Scn scene is not centralized like the uber horrible CofS (not being sarcastic. They really are a horrible organization!), people are free to vary.

    There are FZ yahoo group lists. My experience with them is that people there tend to be a tad bit party line, tech purist, etc. But even there, you get a spread of opinions.

    My forum (just a little bitty one) is "tech friendly" but I allow and encourage critics to post. You do not need to set up an account to lurk or post. You can read anything on it.

    The Non CofS Scn scene is an odd one. It's a bunch of heretics. (which I approve of) But it does have some hidebound types and some people who aren't very nice, and it has some very nice people, as well. It's like anything else.

    I've met some truly vicious people therein, actually, but, IMO, they are outnumbered by the nice ones. I would say the same of any venue. It's just that with Scn stuff, since they are telling you that it's good for what ails ya, it causes cognitive dissonance to run across some batfuck crazy or nasty shithead when it's advertised as a way to achieve enlightenment.

    Just take people as individuals and if you're not 100% certain of where they stand or if they feel like it's all DM's fault and LRH was perfect or if they are critical of Hubbard, too, just ask 'em. :)
  7. vumba

    vumba Danielle Chamberlin

    Ja I get you, but I looked at my time as not wasted, but simply as another stage in my life where I learned and experienced a lot. Not all bad; I did form some wonderful friendships in there, which I think, looking back is what I value the most, and also saddens me the most because they are still in, and I am not, and never will be again. I hope one day they will leave. :eek:)

    I left when I was 21 and I am fifty now, and have had a wonderfully fulfilled and enriched life, with more to come, so I wouldn't worry about having wasted time, just look forward with excitement for what's to come! :goodluck:
  8. mich

    mich Patron

    Thanks, Arthur. I guess I was a little luckier than most. Somehow, right from the beginning I think I was viewed as a trouble maker. I don't think my ED liked me much, it took forever for him to agree to send me to Flag even though he was constantly asking for volunteers at our musters. My first trip to Flag I didn't make waves - I was too green to know what the hell was going on - but within months of my second trip I had a non-enturb order over a stat-push! And then when I got home I was shipped off to the test centre - a good 20 minute drive from the Org and without telephones. It didn't seem like the best use of my training, but it sure kept me out of the swing of things. Good thing too. At least I didn't have the constant negativity, so the mind-fuck wasn't as deep as it could've been.

    For me the worst I experienced was at flag. What was done to me was nothing compared to what I saw SO go through. It was sickening! To be honest, it was my empathy and admiration for them that kept me sane, but watching them losing their respect for each other as a matter of survival.... I can't tell you what that did to me. It's no different than the stories of Central Africa's child soldiers - the stripping down of humanity, until the animal is all that's left, fighting to survive.

    Now I'm looking far and wide, determined not to be religiously and spiritually illiterate so that when I decide to reach out I'll have a better shot at avoiding another CofS.

    By the way, your name is familiar to me. I'm really bad with names, though. My full name is Michelle Babich, medium height, medium weight, long blonde straight hair and dark blue eyes, forty-three, South African ... ring any bells?
  9. mich

    mich Patron

    Thanks Vumba, and I know what you mean about the friends. I have tried to reach out as much as possible without putting them in a bad position. At least I'm letting them know I'm out so when the time comes they'll know how to find me. Most know me as "mich" and those that remember my full name will be able to find me on fb. I have to admit I never made the same 'intensity' of friend than I did at flag - helps me understand what war buddies experience.

    While I was there I got to meet a lot of public who had been around for thirty-some years, and I was amazed at their attitude... like scn was some kind of tennis club - hard to really describe, but there was very little spirituality about it. I also, I regret to say, recovered an ex-SO from the seventies to do the Basics. I regret recovering him, but not meeting him. He was genuine, and I really grew to love him.

    In my experience scn seems to attract some of the best people I have ever met. But if they stick it out for any length of time, they become less. Of course, this is a generalization, and as I write I can think of a few exceptions. Still, I really hope the bubble will burst, and we will have a chance to find those friends again.
  10. mich

    mich Patron

    Thanks, and I'll be checking out your site too.:thumbsup:
  11. mich

    mich Patron

    Excellent point! In my experience Dianetics really helped me - but then again it was a borrowed tech. Word clearing is still a staple of my intellectual diet - oops, that was borrowed too. As for the rest... I can't say only scn could've given me those results. In fact I'm certain that when the auditor was genuinely interested and caring I had great sessions with FTAs, when not - triple tagged. So maybe all I needed, all we all ever need, are true friendships and the time to explore ourselves.

    Nice realization - thanks for guiding me to it.:clap:
  12. mich

    mich Patron

    Thanks! I'll take a look...:thumbsup:
  13. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    You are most welcome !

    To my way of thinking when someone is interested in and cares about the person they are listening to that most certainly is wonderful and capable of producing great results.

    And that kind of a person ( in scn an auditor ) does exist and can be found not only in one particular group but many...maybe a somewhat 'rare' person but they do exist !
    Some people are natural very good listeners.

    I've had quiet conversations with people who have studied non violent communication and had it be life changing or listened to Esther Hicks channel ( did I say that ? ) Abraham and felt as if there were a God or Universal Consciousness then that was who was talking. Or, sometimes, sitting with a loved one sharing thoughts and feelings.
    Meditationing? Oh goodness yes ! 15 minute a day routine for me !
    No group has cornered the market on effective communications.

    Might want to look into the I Ching, too. WOW !

    There are many paths ( and many cons ). Trust yourself, pick what is right for you.

    Oh, Mich, may I send you a private message ?
  14. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One


    I feel obliged to offer a small piece of unsolicited general advice which I, myself, found very useful; it's to do with frying pans and fires. Allow yourself time to decompress fully.

    "Hurry Up and Survive!" is an impulse born of scientology indoctrination, there is no rush really and you're already walking your Path. Enjoy the journey.

    Best Wishes, Panda :)
  15. Miss Pert

    Miss Pert Silver Meritorious Patron

    Great analogy Toadie!!!

    Funny thing is, I got into the cult because I thought it would be a faster way to reach the spiritual goal I was after and because of that it justified the cost. Prior to Scn I was attending a small group where we practised meditation and spiritual healing, etc. Since leaving the cult I realised I made as much progress in the 2 years I was involved with the spiritual group as I did in the 15 years I was in the cult.

    Now I realise that, for me, reaching my "spiritual goal" is a part of my life journey and I progress toward it each and every day. There is no rush to achieve it anymore and I don't have to be part of a group to do so, I just have to live my life as myself and try to be the best person I can be. I must be doing something right because life is good (shit still happens but that's life) and friends like Mich and Semper Phi, 2 wonderful ladies I met at Flag when we were OOTs, have now found their way back to the real world and are a part of my life again. Life is good all!!! :thumbsup:
  16. New Guy

    New Guy Patron with Honors

    Never really post here,but thought i would quote this.
    You have lots of options and all the time in the world to pick which ones are right for you.
  17. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Toady, if you know some subjects that are thousands of times faster than Scientology and cost tens of thousands of dollars less please let us in on it. I for one would be there in a heart beat to sample their services. I claim to be a pragmatist and support things which work. The ones that work the best and cost the least would be the first ones which I would support. To hell with lesser and most costly techs. Who would need them if what you say is accurate. Therefore, please let us in on where we have to go to find out more about these "Wundertechs"!
  18. olska

    olska Silver Meritorious Patron

    The "correct tech" depends on what you are trying to achieve. For example, you wouldn't use plumbing tech to repair your electrical wiring problems.

    If you really want to find what Toady (and some others) is talking about, first you have to realize and admit that you are not God. You might be amazed to discover how much relief you can achieve from that alone.

    That process can be very fast -- it can happen in a moment. And it costs nothing -- in fact, that little bit of "tech" is being given to you right now, by me, for free!

    As long as you are trying to be God, well, good luck with that and with finding a "tech" that will get you there.
  19. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    Been posted about on ESMB & has been, I believe, discussed with you by me.

    Giving information is one thing while having someone willing to listen - and listening - is entirely another thing.
  20. Dean Blair

    Dean Blair Silver Meritorious Patron

    Welcome to ESMB Mich. You showed courage in deciding to read more than what the Cof$ allows on it's approved reading list. There is very little censorship here and you are allowed to believe whatever you wish.