ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



Featured New post from blownforgood - MUSICAL CHAIRS INT BASE STYLE

Discussion in 'Staff "War Stories"' started by Lulu Belle, Sep 28, 2007.

  1. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    wow I have to confess I never thought I would see someone claiming to ne a Sci-Fi fan who would rank anything Hubbard wrote up against Asimov or Herbert.

    While I think Mission Earth is complete rubbish I can understand that a person would, perhaps, think that it had some value as parody and irony.

    As for whether the CMo could ave written it - no. But writers like RVY were far better than Hubbard. Any of the writers for Freedom magazine were far better at writing fiction than Hubbard ever was.

    And, just to be clear - Hubbard was a good pulp Sci-Fi writer. I enjoyed a lot of his early stuff. It is a pity he never matured beyond that.
     
  2. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    Well....I contributed to mocking that scene up at one time....I may as well help unmock it. PM me if you have a good idea.
     
  3. Pascal

    Pascal Silver Meritorious Patron

    Hubbard always aimed at the masses, he like to be duplicated. Herbert and Asimov are more nerdy, nevermind my favourite, A.E Van Vogt.

    Mission Earth had a great action style, full of real life stuff. A great saga in its own style.
     
  4. Pascal

    Pascal Silver Meritorious Patron

    How about renting a plane that drags a sign saying "David Miscavige is an SP" or "People in the SP hall, make things go right, toss the dwarf out!". Or just the URL of this forum would cause a huge flap with DM and his minions.
     
  5. Lee_from_phx

    Lee_from_phx Patron with Honors

    I believe that you and I are talking about two very different things.

    I'm talking about the abuse of staff at the hands of their psychotic overlord Miscavige, and how it is only continuing because they are allowing it to.

    You seem to be talking about something else. "One wrong blink and you're out of there." That doesn't sound like a problem to me, it sounds like a solution!

    I get the feeling that you're talking about trying to reform or salvage the cult, which to me is about as rational as trying to reform Al Qaeda. What would be the point? Individuals within the group may be worthy of rescue, but the group as a whole is nothing but a cancer upon the world and should be destroyed. Scientology is the enemy, plain and simple. You are right though that the best way to fight them is to tell the truth.

    I'm waiting for the day when Miscavige says the wrong thing to the wrong person at the wrong time and winds up dead.

    I'm frankly amazed that this has not happened already. I read the reports of what he does to people. When I imagine myself in their place it shocks me to think that he's still alive. The man who was crying because he'd be separated from his wife...why would any person tolerate that? Why did he stand there and cry when he could have been strangling Miscavige?

    The idea that it is "impossible to do anything" is nonsense. Does he have super-human powers? A regiment of armed guards who follow him everywhere? He is one man, and not a very impressive specimen of one at that.

    The only reason he is still sucking air is because he's got everyone around him buffaloed. Otherwise one of them would have surely killed him by now. He's got them conned into giving him almost absolute power over them. So much so that they continue to give him that power in the face of continual and relentless abuse.

    This is a situation that continues to exist BECAUSE THEY ALLOW IT TO. Instead of dancing around those chairs they should have beaten him to death with them.
     
  6. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat


    :goodposting:

    I don't know how to explain this easily, but ...

    When you are a basically good, sane person, you think that others around you can be handled the way you can be handled. That if you communicate what you feel, the other person will "get it" and that they will change.

    Women who live with abusive men are great examples of this. I have read a lot of material about abusive relationships, and the one thing that I clearly got from what I've read is that you have to think of an abuser's mind as being hardwired totally differently than yours is.

    They only feel power from making another powerless, unlike the way a sane person feels powerful. They deliberately gain the trust of another person for the sole purpose of betraying that trust. Their whole mental pattern is different than a "good person's". Their feelings of self worth come totally from dominating and manipulating another person.

    Attempting to reason with a person who is "hardwired" to think like this is useless. They don't respond to what a sane person responds to.

    You have to really "get" this. You cannot handle a person like this with reason. With communication. With counselling. With anything.

    I know someone where I work who has an abusive boyfriend. She has attempted for years to "change" him. She has talked with him and reasoned with him for hours on end. She has dragged him into relationship counselling many times. He was ordered to "Anger Management" classes after one incident by the courts.

    This has been going on for years. Has it made one bit of difference?

    Hell, no.

    It's very hard when you realize that you have a person like this who influences your life - whether it be a boyfriend or husband, a boss, or a cult leader - to really understand that there is absolutely nothing you can do to change that person's behavior. Nothing.

    Like Lee said, there's a part of the person that is missing.

    Why do certain people have that missing piece? Who knows?

    It really doesn't matter why it is. It just matters that it is, and that you recognize it when you see it.

    I read something once that made a lot of sense to me.

    "With some people, all you can do is just get out of the way."
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2007
  7. Little Bear Victor

    Little Bear Victor Silver Meritorious Patron

    Lee,

    Lulu Belle explained it pretty well above.

    The problem is that the abused people think they are wrong and Miscavige is right. If you read up on mind control techniques you can see how this is possible. Mind control is not pain-drug-hypnosis as much as gradually getting you to believe things could be a certain way and then enforcing them.

    Besides, every person in Scientology, at least at that level is pretty much "alone" in such a situation. With the constant propaganda -- and you may have very hard time to grasp it unless you've been there -- you are the "only" one against DM and his endless resources. And, in fact, in relationship to you, one person, he pretty much does have endless resources. He spends millions in litigation and "never loses a court case" (that's the picture you are given when you're inside). He can singlehandedly "take down the IRS." And you are but mud on the shoe of God.

    The point that seems to be the hardest to grasp by an "outside observer" is that people are there because they truly and honestly believe Scientology is their only salvation, the only solution for mankind's problems, their own personal spiritual immortality and eternity, and if they were to be SP declared that would be the end of them, as beings. A fate worse than death by far.

    Or, even if the spiritual aspect doesn't bother you, think about it this way: Take your current life, your family, friends, your work, your house, your whole life. How attractive is the choice of getting kicked out of it all to be sent to and live in a drug- and crime-ridden slum where you know no one, don't have a roof over your head, no work, and with tens of thousands of dollars in debt? That's the world outside as seen through the blood-colored glasses installed by the constant propaganda.

    Just take my word for it: The spiritual oblivion promised by LRH to a deserter is enormously more significant than the material losses.

    And DM can deliver both to you faster than you can blink.

    The world inside is completely different from the world outside. As long as you believe in LRH and believe DM is safeguarding Scientology (even if it is "from your out-ethics") by doing what he is doing, you're utterly powerless against him.

    I don't know how else to put it.

    V
     
  8. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Back in the 60s there was a political cartoon that was made into a poster. It was by the then top cartoonist for the LA Times and, I'm hoping that somebody else will remember it and maybe know the cartoonist and a link to the picture.

    Anyway, it's of a WW III survivor stumbling through a field of rubble, carrying a small portable TV with the power cord held out before him; looking for a socket. Great shell-shocked eyes.

    I've often imagined the scene at the La 'Complex' after the raids have begun; after Davey and Co. have either bugged out or been apprehended; after the leadership is gone and the 'bulletins' from 'uplines' suddenly stop.

    And, I've imagined the Sea Org and Staff, wandering the streets outside of the Complex with a similar look.

    Hopefully there will be people to help them.

    Zinj
     
  9. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Thanks, I just sent this on to a friend in an abusive relationship. :)
     
  10. A.K. Myers

    A.K. Myers Patron with Honors

    Do you mean this one?

    http://www.roncobbdesigns.com/Welcome.161.0.html

    Senebty,
     
  11. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

  12. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    wot she said...

    great post lulu

     
  13. Flyonthewall

    Flyonthewall Patron

    I just thought this post should stay near the top of the board as it's full of awesome information.
     
  14. suzicue

    suzicue Patron

    I'll just chime in here. I agree with the posts above by Lulubelle and LBV
    regarding dm and his dominion over the poor folks still at the int base. I
    speak from my own experience. When you have commited yourself
    to the whole s.o. mindset and viewpoint, you tend to believe that dm has
    inside knowledge and a "lack of reasonableness" that makes his take on
    things superior to your own. So when you are at the receipt end of some
    abusive action, you tend to feel *you* had it wrong, not dm. Even if the scene seems absolutely bananas, you tend to soul-search on how you could
    be so off the rails.

    As to lrh's sci fi writing, Mission Earth, to me, is like a poor x-rated comic
    book, albeit a long one. R. Crumb would have been much better at it.
     
  15. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Crumb actually *likes* 'meat bodies', although, I suspect he'd be suspicious of 'thetans' running them...

    Zinj
     
  16. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Welcome, suziecue.

    I'm on the east coast too.

    Sort of. :)

    Paul
     
  17. suzicue

    suzicue Patron

    Hello, Paul. Thanks. Can you speak Geordie?
     
  18. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    No. And I have great difficulty understanding it too. Fortunately there's the Internet. :)

    Do you have any Int base tales to tell?

    Paul
     
  19. Little Bear Victor

    Little Bear Victor Silver Meritorious Patron

    Can We Ever Be Friends

    Well, while we wait for that reply, I can tell a small DM tale for you chilluns, something that someone just reminded me of.

    In around 2003, after his latest offload fest during which 150 people were offloaded from the Int Base, DM started to feel those natural responses that any person would get from committing such a sizable overt, but since he cannot spot himself as the source of the problem -- and it was not vanishing -- he came to the obvious conclusion that the ENTIRE Int Base is suppressive as a group against him, and that he should disconnect from it for once and for all.

    Putting aside such insignificant details as LRH tech on the matter, DM one day says he's had it, calls up Jenny DeVocht (then CO CMOI) and tells her he is disconnecting from the entire Int Base, he is never coming back to the base again, never issuing another order; he never wants to have anything to do with anyone on the base again. In the same, he gives the Base a program of sorts to handle this SP/PTS situation.

    Can any of you think with this?! Chairman of the Board RTC disconnects from the entire Int Base on the basis that he is PTS to us?!?!

    As part of this program he orders (since he is COB RTC and is at cause over the situation) the entire Base to listen to the "Can We Ever Be Friends" tape, as in handling the antagonistic element!

    So there we were, having an all-Base tape play of "Can We Ever Be Friends." It was so absurd, surreal, weird and twisted as to escape all reason, if anyone wants my opinion of it.

    At that point you can really only ask yourself "what wall?"

    (The next day he changed his mind, DA'd the briefing by Jenny DeVocht as "unauthorized," and resumed giving orders to the base)
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2007
  20. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    THIS GUY IS FUCKING INSANE. He is a total nut. I can't believe it. I am so embarrassed that I ever worked for or respected someone who treats people like this. Its really gross.

    What an ass.

    Him and TC will be the only ones left in their stupid little universe.