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New theme for ESMB?

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by alex, Oct 23, 2008.

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  1. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    There seems to be a new theme developing on ESMB, that differing views are simply trolling, and possibly OSA.

    When ESMB started there was an atmosphere of tolerance and posters with differing views were engaged or not depending on the intelligence and interesting ideas in their posts.

    There was a general sympathy for the residual fondness for the tech by the people who rejected it, as it was part of the common experience.

    And the tech lovers understood those who rejected it as they also had similar invalidative experiences with the church's culture.

    The arrival of the anon and its very different culture, and the more recent arrival of a substantial force of Australians, who are very self confident in their own correctness, seems to be turning ESMB from Emma's tea party, to campaign headquarters against the church.

    Pro scientology views are ridiculed with little thought given to the fact that they are views once also held by most of the people here.

    Threads are treated as if this is all about serious business.

    What happened to this being a place where we could all talk, with out the subtext of suspicion and the implication that hidden adgendas were being run?

    Diverting a thread may just be a way to keep some conversation going. Some of the best threads on this board have gone for hundreds of pages with massive diversions and then someone replies to the original posters theme and its back on course. Its all communication.

    I am personally sensitive to this OSA paranoia as I have often been accused of being such. I am listed on lermanet.com as such. And I have a tendency to have thoughts sparked by what people say and post in a thread with tagential thoughts that some would think diversionary.

    But there are people on this board who have access to my real name.

    My whole point being that some of the feeling that this is a safe place for anyone with a scientology experience to talk is to some degree being undermined by a trend towards stonger activism and less tolerance.

    For those of you who feel the need to "rescue" your fellow man from thier beliefs, perhaps you are shooting yourself in the foot when you encourage an atmosphere of looking out for the OSA and labeling differences as trolling.

    I have no qualms with seeing people who left the church as people of good intent. I desire reform in the church, and think that it is currently way off track from its stated goals. But is anti-scientology really a good new religion?

    alex (who expects to be relabeled an osa troll. perhaps emma will change my "status" lable to osa troll extrodinare.)
     
  2. cinamingrl

    cinamingrl Patron Meritorious

    ~~~

    Every time that I read about OSA being here, I tend to not believe it. That's because they are all too chicken shit to be here. That entire department was a bunch of paranoid bullies. And I seriously doubt that they'd be here.

    But if they are.......[​IMG]

    and........


    [​IMG]
     
  3. Good twin

    Good twin Floater

    Alex,
    We can still talk. There is room for even more views. Damn, after reading some of the recent posts, I started to think I might be OSA. We may or may not be totally safe here, but we can still talk to each other or not as we see fit. I rather enjoy Anon and the Aussies. I also enjoy seeing you here. I need the exes who share similar experiences to mine, but embrace other viewpoints as well. Understanding OSA is a survival point for many of us. There are people here who have first hand knowledge of OSA tech and OSA ops. I consider this valuable and you should too. ESMB has to evolve. So we all can. IMO.:yes:
    GT
     
  4. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    I have gone as far as to ask anyone who is osa to contact me privately as I have posted for over a decade with an unmasked ip, while a scientologist in good standing. I have not heard a peep.

    My feeling is that if there are any "OSA" here, they are in the guise of critics, friendly, and completely off the radar. This would jibe with what Panda has posted.

    alex
     
  5. Wisened One

    Wisened One Crusader

    Personally: I enjoy the different points of view, here.

    And while I consider myself 'recovered' meaning, not needing to 'lean' on exscn forum so much. I'm now more comfortable in my own path and glad as hell I am OUT and have even found some friends! :hug:

    And alex: I think deep down, we ALL would not mind seeing CoS 'truly reform' into what we all wanted it to be in the first place. A body of knowledge that truly was a bridge to 'freedom' and yes, of 'personal powers'. But, I really don't think it ever will or can, for that matter.

    I know there is FZ, Ron's Org, Knowledgeism, Paul's Robot Auditor, etc...and that's good. That stuff has even helped me.

    For now, I'm just happy to read the posts, respond to those that I want, and stay conncted to other exes and my friends! (old and new). :yes:
     
  6. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    I just see a certain balance shifting.

    It is ironic that in the zeal to help, the fact that the balance is tilting so anti-scientology, that people still in and near leaving may be put off by it.

    I like the anon too (mostly) and the boisterous folk from the upsidedown land, but I also want the tolerance to not get forgot.

    It is interesting that in all the stories, how little involves examples of OSA actually affecting peoples real lives. The vast majority of the people who leave the church are unaffected, and only the people who are taking direct action to hinder the operations of the church receive any attention.

    imo

    alex
     
  7. Pixie

    Pixie Crusader

    Yes I agree the board is going through an evolution for sure as we all are on many different levels, and sometimes people are 'waking up' at different levels too and this can leave a feeling of being somewhat policed. :nervous:

    I am not afraid to admit that when I first came here I just simply could not read anything pro 'tech' without screaming in all directions, however my own evolution has taken me to a much more objective understanding and tolerant place. I am now able to embrace all viewpoints on this board which is what the administrator initially intended. At the time, I could not see or understand why, I was possibly too raw with emotion, but I do now and it's extremely refreshing. It's all about respect too, people shouldn't be judged for their views and certainly not ridiculed or made feel somehow wrong either. :no:

    And no, threads shouldn't be treated as 'serious business', there are other sites for that. The humour threads are there for a reason and these threads are also there for a purpose and for some that is their way of waking up from their individual experiences. However that said, if some want 'serious business' on certain threads that is also their perrogative, but for sure it shouldn't allow for anyone to come down on those that do not want this all the time. Some need more variety than others. :whistling:

    All I can suggest Alex is that you continue just to be yourself, the only person you have to answer to on this board is the administrator, if she has invited people with differeing views then so be it, all are welcome as long as the rules are followed. I'm certainly not going to allow it to be a problem, and neither should you.

    And yes, I remember those threads that were derailed and derailed, and you are right, it IS all communication, and communication in my book is very healthy indeed. :thumbsup:
     
  8. well_that_sucked

    well_that_sucked Patron with Honors

    The world has left scientology and scientologists behind, society has woken up and it will not allow an organization like this cult to tell them how to live, what to say and how to act.

    We can think freely as is our right, and no one can damn us for it or feed us lies designed to control and enslave.

    Alex, as a scentologist how do you feel about attaching a price to salvation, or denying it to non believers? Or what about the poor that don't want to become slaves to an org or the SO? Do you really believe one man has a right to immorality simply because he has more money?

    What the hell is scientology to dole out spiritual freedom to those that qualify?

    I know, a cult.
     
  9. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    I agree that the Church of Scientology has many cultish aspects. I labeled it as such in 1974 prior to joining and had to later petition the Guardians office to join....

    The price, the money, the effort required to become spiritually free are up to you. You ARE free to find your own way. But if you like to have a supervisor over your shoulder when you read and study, you pay. The library and your own efforts are free.

    Its ironic you decry paying for spiritual freedom, as from my viewpoint the people who only pay their way up the processing side of the bridge, usually are the least likely to attain it. I would agree that it is not possible to buy salvation. You need to work for it, and when you find it, I suspect that it will not be something anyone else had and conveyed to you.

    You and everyone else on this planet is being fed lies constantly by many other entities than your hated church. Politically, culturally, sexually. We swim in a sea of lies looking for the beach of truth.

    When you find it, let me know.

    alex
     
  10. well_that_sucked

    well_that_sucked Patron with Honors

    No, no man needs to work for salvation that is his right simply by his existence as a human being.

    Who are you and your cult to say someone didn't work hard enough so they don't get immortality?

    What man can judge another in such a fashion? How fucking dare you.

    That's not the mindset of a person or group that has mankind at heart, that is the mindset of an elitist organization, which has absolutely nothing to do with spirituality.

    They fucked you good didn't they?
     
  11. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    UMM....

    Do you seriously think that what the church says controls who is saved and who isnt?

    It is up to each individual, through what is true for them to find what they consider to be the best for them.

    Maybe "salvation" is the basic right of any man simply because he exists, but who do you think will bestowe it? How do you think it can be achieved?

    My belief is that it is by each persons own efforts.....I dont think God is partial, or caring.

    alex
     
  12. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

  13. well_that_sucked

    well_that_sucked Patron with Honors

    What does it matter who bestowes it? We are not talking about paying some guy to show you how to do X or information that's valuabe here on this earth.

    According your cult it has the solution to the eternal future of all mankind, but it doesn't, and still it charges unwitting victims thousands upon thousands of dollars for non existent spiritual freedom.

    To the point, the information that would free all men belongs to all men, not some silly fake navy uniform wearing drones.

    Edit and yes you're right God is not impartial, and it is not to each his own, its one planet, one people that you would deem worthy based on the balance in their bank account.
     
  14. Carnaubawax

    Carnaubawax Patron Meritorious

    I understand what you're saying - thanks for saying it. It's easy to get carried away.
     
  15. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well thats kinda to my point....who are they? Anyone you disagree with?

    Anyone who expresses a thought differing from the theme of the thread?

    Anyone ignorant and abusive?

    Panda seems to have some experience in the subject and posted what seems like what I would suspect actually B1 hatting material to sound like, but there is a generality forwarded by it also, that anyone similar to the specific tactics should be viewed as suspect.

    And the irony is that in the zeal to counter "OSA" tactics, the very people targeted for "rescue" may well be put off posting, by the more narrow "acceptable" attitudes required to not be considered suspect.

    imo

    alex
     
  16. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes I couldn't agree more. They release the Basics and act like it's the information needed to salvage the world. They have STOCKPILES of these things and their own printing presses with slave labor to make them and then charge $4000 a set. Are you fucking kidding me? $4000? And they keep up every SO member all night to sell more. And then you find out many libraries who get them just throw them away. I mean the basics says it all as for this thing being a total scam. If they really cared all of this would be put on the internet for free. If Ron really cared he wouldn't have been demanding a million dollars in cash every week. I do not believe religion "should be free" as the saying goes because you'd never have any churches, but this is beyond ridiculous.
     
  17. cinamingrl

    cinamingrl Patron Meritorious

  18. uncle sam

    uncle sam Silver Meritorious Patron

    Dear Alex

    The only problem I really have with you [you're smart-engaging-extremely sincere and a bunch of other good stuff] is that you use the word "CHURCH". Which unfortunately connotes legitimacy to "that cult".
    scientology is not a religion and it is not a church!
     
  19. cinamingrl

    cinamingrl Patron Meritorious

    ~~~

    Oh I agree with you. I don't use the word "church", I usually write "c of s". I used to write it like this ......"church" of "scientology", in sarcasm. What should I write?
     
  20. anonomog

    anonomog Gold Meritorious Patron

    Alex, I enjoy your posts, but I enjoyed pitbull too, so hey, maybe I am suspect too. Or maybe I just have a fondness for the odd man out, rogues and/or twisted humour.

    I imagine quite a few people here, whether they like you or loathe you, appreciate your input too; but for the life of me, knowing you are still so firmly "ïn" I don't get why you would want to post on an EX-Scientologist board, and one that has recently seen an influx of exes, some extremely traumatized EX'es, and unlikely to take you at face value.

    I can't quite understand how you, as a practising Scientologist, ever thought that an Ex Sci board would be a safe place to discuss Scientology experiences.
    Which then begs the question...

    ***

    If you want to swim with sharks best flap those fins.