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new video with Phil Spickler – Oct 18, 2010

Discussion in 'Freezone, Independents, and Other Flavors of Scien' started by Svetka, Oct 25, 2010.

  1. Svetka

    Svetka Patron with Honors

  2. AnonKat

    AnonKat Crusader

    By the point he makes about OT's and Hitler. I do understand the OT being neither Good nor Evil.

    But to call Hitler an OT is like calling Gearge Bush Intelligent.

    If such a thing should exist at all.

    Another point what happened to man is basicly good if OT's are basicly moralless.

    A bit like Q
  3. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    I don't think that you would find him defending man is basicly good.

    George Bush was defeated for Congress once. He vowed to never be beaten by a "bubba" again. The stupid was an act. Go onto NPR vaults. Listen to his speeches before the Congressional run, which he lost. He went to Yale. He partied. He graduated. He isn't stupid.

    It takes "something" to be elected head of Germany or the USA. You can define it as uber or OT or whatever. They made it happen.
  4. AnonKat

    AnonKat Crusader

    If the stupid was an act than he was double stupid to fuck his country over like he did and the world with it.

    Pre TV Pre Internet in a Militraristic World. Even in the UK they were Anti Semitic . Hell all of Europe and America had some racist ideas back than.

    Glad we learned as a people. I hope. Not onley people matter but the situation in wich they are alowed to rise to the top .
  5. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    I think you can be smart or stupid, and be pro survival or counter survival. I don't think there is a correlation between the two scales.
  6. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Key concept: gradients.

    George Bush IS more intelligent than a creosote bush. Somewhat.

    George Bush is less intelligent than Vannevar Bush. Considerably.

    This sets up a SCALE or GRADIENT of existence, in this case with regard to the quality of intelligence.

    All "spiritual beings" are innately "ot". Not all such beings are MANIFESTING the state EQUALLY. There is considerable variation in individual qualities, degree of personal responsibility, and ethics.

    Hubbard & the Co$ use the term "ot" to emphasize those beings who are thought/intended/believed/marketed as functioning to a MORE CAUSATIVE DEGREE (note the introduction of a gradient) than the "typical human". The implication is that beings "below" this state are not "ot". This is not strictly true. It constitutes the introduction of an "arbitrary", in this case a "cut off point" for who's an "ot". More accurately, a spiritual being is an "ot", although one sufficiently "overwhelmed" is likely unaware of his capabilities and thereby incapable of fully manifesting his potential.

    Needless to say, many church "ots" fail to live up to the Co$'s marketing hype for "ot". This is especially true with regard to personal responsibility level (gradient) & ethics (also a gradient).

    Mark A. Baker
    p.s. Love Q. :coolwink:
  7. AnonKat

    AnonKat Crusader

    I believe that in the case of Bush Junior he indeed was acting out some "trauma"or erather mayor BUTTHURT because his father lost the Game/election.

    His view of the world was a bit one dimensional with White Hats and black Hats never any nuance or grey.

    "Either you with us or you are against us"

    Bush family will survive indeed, like the parasites they are.

    Maybe he just didn't give a damn. My way or the High way politics.
  8. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Yes, he is. What is worse, he is WILLFULLY stupid.

    Of course, there ARE many who are even more stupid than he is. But W IS definitely "not very bright". His father, who is a very intelligent man, understood this about his son. W is however possessed of a certain innate craftiness, especially when it comes to manipulating people. Persons with such talents often find themselves in leadership positions due to their talent for social manipulation & exploitation, while lacking the ability to understand the ramifications of their actions in the larger context. GHWB himself lacked such skill, although his wife has it in spades. The lack of such has been the ruin of many highly intelligent but not especially "socially gifted" politicos.

    What has made Bill Clinton especially effective as a politician is that he combines his native brilliance with the same sort of craft as is possessed by W. The combination makes him an effective communicator & manipulator. Intelligence alone is rarely the mark of a group leader. If anything, alone it tends to be a bit of an obstacle to leadership of a group as it is a bit of an "out-reality".

    Mark A. Baker
  9. AnonKat

    AnonKat Crusader

    Yes I get that. Some people have better instincts for politics or enterpeneurship and such and still can be shitty people.

    But how does the Enviroment fit in ? Like Bush Junior having his Daddy's network to fall back on.
  10. yum yum!

    more spicklerology! can't listen just now. can't wait though. this is important archival stuff.
  11. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    Great interview. Thanks Phil!
  12. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    I'm pleased to see Spickler admit to being a "romantic, idealistic fool" because he certainly is. If he were not, he might perhaps obtain a glimpse at the glaring inconsistencies scattered throughout his disjointed and ramshackle ramblings.

    A simple example: academia as early as 1955 quickly disposed of scientology with, even then, simple scientific techniques which proved the subject has no validity and miniscule efficacy. The very same tests can be done today and will reach exactly the same conclusion. As a result of that early dismissal, LRH started his "game" with the psychs, a game which continues to this day with public exhibitions stacked full of lies and public protests designed to bring about the end of psychiatry. It would seem scientology itself is unable to choose whether or not to play the game and, some sixty years later, psychiatry has evolved beyond its crude beginnings into a well accepted and trusted profession while scientology has remained frozen and mired in its own mendacious beginnings. If its true that you become what you resist, scientology has become 1950s psychiatry. Only worse.

    The conspiracy theory supporting his original contention is as reliable as the theories about the motor industry supressing designs and stockings manufacturers secretly patenting nylons which don't run.

    A slightly more complex example of the inconsistencies is presented in Spicklers statement that anything put into "time" begins to degrade. He uses this concept as a justification for the impermanence of the state of "Clear" yet, it seems, the very same logic does not apply to the "reactive mind". So, while humans unconsciously and automatically seek to make the reactive mind the same, holding it still, and making it solid, this same behaviour does not apply to the state of "clear".

    Of course, Spickler's confession to being a fool was more related to his hero-worship of the early L Ron Hubbard. This is incredibly sad. If only he knew that by 1950 L Ron Hubbard was already a complete fraud sponging sympathy and glory from real war heros. Poor Spickler seems to believe that prior to DMSMH there were no similar models in regard to the human psyche, yet it was these very models which Hubbard claimed as his own. Sure, taking on "the establishment" is always a worthy endeavour, but when did L Ron Hubbard ever stand and fight. Such bravery was never in his character, he preferred instead skullduggery and flight.

    It was valuable, however, to hear some information on why scientologists are required to work themselves and force others into an early grave "without remorse". The idea presented by Spickler that scientology reduces a person down to a childlike state wherein concern for life or death is disregarded makes perfect sense. From that perspective, its quite possible to believe Hitler exhibited the same level of spiritual awareness as the mythical OT and, further, that scientology is capable of creating people willingly able to aid and assist Hitler. It was refreshing to hear contemporary confirmation that so far as scientology is concerned Jesus is not listed amongst the "good guys" and is more related to people like Hitler and Attila The Hun.

    Interesting also to see also Spickler admit towards the end of his interview that his ideas and beliefs "maybe purely delusional" - thing is, there's no "maybe" about it.

    tl/dr: some interesting tidbits but, otherwise, a lot of nonsense.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2010
  13. Sharone Stainforth

    Sharone Stainforth Silver Meritorious Patron

    BLip wrote;

    I've just sat through these videos, and all it did for me was confirm that the freezone is as batsh*t crazy as scientology.Do I think it's sad, yes I do, that this man has been in scientology since it's begining and thinks Hubbards a hero, puts Hitler and Jesus in the same league and calls them OT.He admitted there is no such thing as a clear, in so many words. No wonder people have to keep forking out the money to repeat the process.The other thing I get from watching these long term free zoners in videos, they don't seem to know how to speak English.
  14. Krautfag

    Krautfag Patron Meritorious

  15. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor


    This was the most brilliant exposition of early scientology
    disciplines I've ever heard. I'm not a techie, nor a dummy, but
    learn't a lot from this.

    Thank you so much Phil and Tatiana. :)
  16. LongTimeGone

    LongTimeGone Silver Meritorious Patron

    He's RIGHT !!!!!!! I can't find my father's hammer ANYWHERE.

    How can I get in touch with this obvious Messiah??????

    I've got some spare cash to give to him.
    He can use that money to replace the various things that have been misplaced.

  17. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Yes, I agree. Thanks for doing the interview, Tatiana.
    Phil, thank you for this very interesting and informative glimpse into your Universe.
    I enjoyed it immensely and appreciate the sharing. :)
  18. If OT is Hubbard's ultimate goal of Scientology, then Phil Spickler is spot on about Hitler being an OT.

    I'll never understand why people act as if Miscavige is not exactly what Hubbard intended his "Tech" to create.

    Miscavige is one of the few Scientology success stories that Hubbard could be proud of,

    he as just as ruthless, committed, and hardcore evil as Hubbard intended his Ronbots to be.
  19. It's the same old worn out story of the imaginary evil psychs being out to get Hubbard, because Hubbard's con game will put them out of psychiatric death camp business.

    It would be entertaining if it wasn't so pathetic.

    They always leave out the most important part of the story,

    How Scientology couldn't even help Hubbard, he ended up just as crazy as he started out.

    How Hubbard spent the last year's of his life in hiding, curled up in a fetal position, wearing soiled diaper, and getting shots of Vistaril to keep tranquilized.

    The End Phenomenon of Scientology is to understand that Hubbard is the evil psych that he is warning you about,

    And the shock treatments and lobotomies are Scientology
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2010
  20. poiuy

    poiuy New Member

    Таня, вы глубоко заблуждаетесь.

    Таня, вы глубоко заблуждаетесь. Ваши интэрвью с Филом Спиклером просто бред. Старый козёл совершенно спятил, а вы сидите развесив губу, в то время как он опровергает себя в смежных предложениях. Я не знаю что у вас в России сейчас творится но запрет на LRH – правильный – чтоб другим не повадно было, хотя меня разочаровывает что вмешались в это дело попы. Гитлер – OT? Бред. LRH говорил что ваши гонения в Германии – это всё от воскресших нацистов. Мне за вас просто обидно. Одумайтесь.