ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Newly Exiting

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by ImNoAlien, Jan 31, 2017.

  1. Jump

    Jump Operating teatime

    Perhaps you know a rich Nigerian prince that is desperate to go to the highest OT levels in this lifetime...
  2. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    OK, thanks. If you can find the org's website, try "info@domain," e.g. "" or whatever. They should have a catch-all email address that someone monitors, and you can have a more specific addressee -- like Treasury Sec or Chaplain etc -- in the subject line or body of the message. There's no guarantee this will work, as "ability to receive communications from anyone on any subject" would be a scary power for a Scientologist to have.

  3. ImNoAlien

    ImNoAlien Patron

    That's great Paul, thank you. I will give it a try.

    A question of opinion for you. Do you think email is the best way to communicate or do you have another suggestion? Should I front up there with letter in hand and have it be resolved immediately or will I get a more cooperative response if I exchange emails? Trying to make sure I proceed in the best way possible.
  4. Out/Int

    Out/Int Patron with Honors

    Send it regular mail, e mail so you have a record.

    Never do it in person or on the phone - they will spin you until you can't see straight.

    That is what Scientology has perfected for 65 years - how to con and scam and keep the money.
  5. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Send it by local messenger marked as payment enclosed. Put in 10 or 20ยข to pay for the cost of the photo copy.
    I would recommend using the address of a different local courier as the return address then inform that messenger courier to accept on your behalf for their usual fee. They can then deliver it to you the following day via different driver ( essentially thus untrackable by the org ).

    Note; delivery companies can deliver back to you or hold for you using ONLY their internally generated tracking number.

    Call around to such services ,explain what you want done and why you want it confidential an ask them for their solution. Don't forget to mark the envelope you send with $$$$$$$$$$$ enclosed. Lol
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
  6. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    There are 31 threads on ESMB with "repayment" in the title: it is a popular topic here, with the experiences of many people detailed. To access them click on "Advanced Search" up in the top right of the page. Under Search for Posts , type "repayment" (without the quote marks) in the Keyword(s) box. On the same line, toggle to "Search Titles Only" instead of the default "Search Entire Posts". Then click "Search Now", with no need to change anything else.

    If you have a no-nonsense type friend to go with you -- preferably handcuffed together so you can't be separated (only half-joking here) -- you could deliver a letter in person. That way they can't pretend they didn't get it. But if you go alone you risk being dissuaded. As for instant resolution, don't hold your breath: pulling teeth is easier. Sending an email is not positive enough, as when you don't hear back you don't know if anyone read it, or is the Dir Comm sitting on it, the ED, or what.

    Good luck.

  7. ImNoAlien

    ImNoAlien Patron

    Thank you for the detailed instructions, I have used the search before but I'm guessing you get a lot of people who do not search by the way that was explained. Just for fun, I searched repayment and it turns out I've read all but 1 of those threads.

    As this is a relatively small amount of money by comparison to most people's stories, I am still very interested in any opinions of how to handle this, you all are experienced with their ways unlike myself so anything you can suggest is appreciated. I like the idea of using couriers dchoiceisalwaysrs, very clever way to keep them at bay.
  8. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Delivering a letter in person is not necessarily going to prove you gave it to them. They can always lie and deny they ever saw you or the letter, unless you video yourself giving it to them. Better to send it registered mail.

    If they accept it, you have evidence of sending it to them. If they refuse to accept it, the post office will still give you a receipt saying they refused, which is also evidence.

    It might be amusing to have a non-Scn friend video himself delivering your letter to Reception, and in the video stating what is in the letter. Check your local laws on whether all parties are required to consent to be recorded.
  9. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    Good post. In the UK (and I assume it';s the same in the US) if you're thinking of taking legal action against them you can instruct a solicitor (or attorney in the US) to issue a writ, which is delivered by the solicitor himself or his representative after the person to whom the writ has to be delivered has confirmed his identity. Again, that way they can't deny having received it - but that way, and going through the courts, is more expensive. (Must admit I like the idea of the friend with the video camera).
  10. clamicide

    clamicide Gold Meritorious Patron

    They will refuse the registered mail. It's one of the first things any receptionist in an org is taught. There's some policy about it that I remember being put onto almost every checksheet I did as a staff member (and I wasn't even in that department).
  11. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    You cannot refuse a writ (at least not in the UK), so that looks like the better option if you can afford it and you can find a solicitor willing to serve one. Also, I don't think the courts here would look kindly on a registered letter being refused. At this point though, I think you'd probably be better off talking to someone qualified in your particular legal jurisdiction, or to someone who has succeeded in getting their money back from the CofS (there are some on this board) and has experience of the shenanigans they might try to pull to avoid having to pay out.
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
  12. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    There is no need for a writ or legal fees if the amount being claimed is relatively minor. The small claims court can deal with it very easily.

    I'm in the UK so I don't know about the US but over here I simply wrote a letter to my local org telling them I wanted my money back. They contacted me to say they would give it to me but asked me to wait because they didn't have it.

    I agreed to wait but eventually I filed a claim with the small claims court and the CoS paid me on the day before the case was due.

    No legal fees, just a small filing fee.

    Note that this was over 10 years ago so I don't know if the legal forms the CoS has introduced lately make any difference to their repayment policies.
  13. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I think you make a good point here. I also remember there being either a policy or base order to the effect that certified/registered mail is not to be accepted. However, small claims courts want to see that normal attempts at communicating the complaint or request for refund have been made and if one party has demonstrated an unwillingness to cooperate it probably tends to work against them in the judge's decision.

    I seem to recall that receptionists and security are also drilled on how to avoid receiving service or making it difficult for a processor to find the right person or place to give service. You can rack up fees every time a service is attempted and that may not be recoverable in a settlement.
  14. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    That may have changed. From the "Re: Claims Verification Board Routing Form from the Church of Scientology" thread:

  15. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Does anyone else find it curious that the Church would memorialize in an HCOPL that a bad PR situation was created with a specific postal carrier serving a specific org by an ill advised policy inspired by an overly litigious environment AND that the carrier was able to exert leverage over the Church simply by threatening the status of their bulk mail permit?

    Why not just leave all that blah blah out and say "Registered mail can now be accepted"...end of story?

    Whenever they get into the weeds in official docs like this it makes me think there is some serious behind the scenes CYA going on. They are like this with evals - pointing to completely miscellaneous incoherent BS like it is some super profound observation and then basing a whole program around it. Maybe in this case they just couldn't separate their obsessive compulsive data evaluator hat from their PR hat and Issue Authority just rubber stamped it as a little window into the dysfunctional collective hive mind.
  16. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    This is true.
  17. ImNoAlien

    ImNoAlien Patron

    Hi again all!

    Updating now as I have spent some time soul searching and evaluating things, trying to decide if I am making the right decision.

    I have contacted the ED directly asking for anything necessary to obtain the return of my funds on account and am currently (impatiently) awaiting a reply.

    FYI, I'm dealing with the Perth, Australia Org (Don't really care if they figure out it's me, I want to close this chapter of my life) so if any locals have any further suggestions or insights on how this will be handled by an AU location I'm all ears!!!

    Again, thanks for your continued help and support and for making this process a little easier on someone like myself
  18. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Belated :welcome2: ImNoAlien!! I will leave suggestions up to those in the know, being myself unfamiliar with the Aussie laws and such. However, wishing you much success:thumbsup:
  19. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    If they know you are posting here then you will be declared an SP. If you are declared an SP then you can no longer use the regular lines for requesting a refund. Your only contact will be the Continental Justice Chief.
  20. ImNoAlien

    ImNoAlien Patron

    Thanks for the advice. I have already been in and signed all the forms and I'm now leaving the country, so as far as I am concerned I will not have to see them again. Big relief on my part. The cheque is being picked up by a third party and will be forwarded to me by them.

    So, I'm out! And it feels sooooo goooood!