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Discussion in 'Tony Ortega' started by Emma, Sep 14, 2012.

  1. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    While I consider such a possibility, I don't consider it a highly likely possibility.

    I include what you said above in my little bag of ideas about "what might be going on here". But, I don't view it with any suspicion. Simply, I don't have enough factual information to be suspicious or not.

    Until such a time that more informartion becomes available, I will assume that he is doing exactly what he says he is doing, and otherwise, I won't think about it until the future unfolds.

    There are many things the C of S might and could do, but whether they ARE doing that in this case is - hypothetical.

    I hope that the book gets written and published, and that it is so hard-hitting that it tears Scientology a new asshole!!!!!
  2. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    This "indicates".

    He quit before he got fired.

    It would have been a huge loss of face and credibility if he had been canned. So, he bailed before that could happen.

    Interesting, but not really surprising, that the liberal cutting edge Village Voice has the same small minded bullshit office politics as every other company on the planet.
  3. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    I know there are people who look at Ortega as a superhero, and aren't going to like what I have to say here.

    IMO, he is first and foremost a journalist who wants to make a name for himself. He may very well have latched onto Scientology as his mission because he knew this would get his blog a lot of attention. If there was something else that would have made him more successful than Scientology, he may have latched onto that instead.

    I do believe his basic motivation is to be successful and well known, and the subject that he chose was chosen for that purpose.

    I do think he's done a great amount of good in his exposure of Scientology. Absolutely. No doubt.

    But, just as it is possible for someone to do the wrong thing for the right reason, a person can also do the right thing for the wrong reason.

    For example, a coproration who donates millions to a charity like St Jude Hospital solely for the PR and the tax break. (Funnily enough, Scientology PR is the right-thing-for-wrong-reason posterchild.)

    This is just my opinion.

    But, as those that have known me over the years can attest, I do turn out to be right a lot. :biggrin:

    Just sayin'.... :whistling:
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
  4. Happy Days

    Happy Days Silver Meritorious Patron

    Good on Tony I wish him all the best....

    Maybe someone else will take up the challenge of daily reporting on the cult.

    However, media have certainly rallied in exposing the cult's evilness so I think we are covered.

    Of course the cult will be having an upstat awards believing they have handled Tony and shut another critic up ... :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

    Have a good weekend :yes:
  5. RandomCat

    RandomCat Patron with Honors

    If this article is true (i.e. Tony Ortega was pushed out because he focused too much on Scientology, and there has been a general shake-up at the Voice because it is not doing well financially), then getting rid of Tony O. seems a rather silly thing to do.

    I would assume that his articles have been a big draw for the Voice's website. :confused2:
  6. RandomCat

    RandomCat Patron with Honors

    Why do you believe that this is his "basic motivation"?

    If his motivation was basically selfish, why would be persist on focusing so much on Scientology when this was causing him to lose his job?
  7. NoName

    NoName A Girl Has No Name

    Maybe he started out doing the right thing for a morally ambivalent reason (career promotion/improvement/helping his employer) and he became a true believer in the fight. I recall him saying that he was trying to tell his supervisees at the VV that they needed to blog to keep the VV hip and relevant. He decided to set an example for his employees, and while he was trying to pick a blog topic, a couple of guys showed up on Marty's doorstep with helmet cams to shoot America's funniest home video. Because he had developed a bunch of contacts in the critic community during his time in LA, he decided to blog about that. The rest is history.

    I think that perhaps his "vision" with blogging didn't work out in non-clam areas and he became a true believer at some point. At least if the Observer story is to be believed.
  8. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    I used to, stupidly, ignorantly and wrongly, post the entire text of his blog posts here.

    This is a copyright no-no, and I have seen the error of my ways. :eyeroll:

    The only time Tony Ortega has come to the biggest information source and gathering of ex-Scientologists on the internet (here) was to blast me for posting his full blog posts here. Because if I did that, this may not result in hits to his VV blog.

    He never came here before.

    He never came here after.

    Only that time, and only for that reason.

    Yeah I know. "Butthurt." I won't lie and say there wasn't some of that going on.

    But I thought it was weird, apart from my own embarrassment about being blasted by him about posting the whole text of his blog posts.

    Why is this all he cared about?

    Because: This was all he cared about.

    This was all he cared about.

    This was not about "spreading the word".

    This was about his personal success. My guess is if you have a blog, your "stat" is number of hits. And apparently he saw me as being someone who might be lowering that stat.

    I lived through way too many years of that...

    So, that's why.

    Like I said, only my opinion.
  9. NCSP

    NCSP Patron Meritorious

    Some people seem to be assuming that professional ambition and sincere outrage at Scientology's behavior are mutually exclusive.

    I'm disappointed, too, but this backlash is kind of disturbing.

    ETA: My disappointment isn't in him, but because I liked reading him, and I think he was able to report from a perspective that no one else could -- not an indie or an ex, but deeply knowledgeable. I'll miss having that voice regularly, but he's no one's private army. I wish him good luck.
  10. RandomCat

    RandomCat Patron with Honors

    Lulu B.
    I'm pretty sure I remember the incident you're talking about... and yeah Tony O. did seem to be overly harsh.
    But possibly this may have something to do with him also being an editor for the Voice.
    From my experience, middle and lower management can be A-holes about following company policy... and they often get shitted-on by their bosses if some policy (that is being focused on) isn't followed aggressively. (And the Observer article indicated that Tony can be a brown-noser at times)
    Still this is no excuse for him acting so harshly.
  11. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    Yeah, he was overly harsh.

    But, more importantly, if he was so interested in the subject of the abuses of Scientology, why did he never come here to talk about that?

    I just find that really...odd.
  12. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    I know he's been here a lot but for whatever reason never bothered to post, at least by his own name.
  13. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    The journalism business has always been very cut-throat with alot of egos & philosophical differences at play.
  14. Jquepublic

    Jquepublic Silver Meritorious Patron

    True enough. But the incident Lulu is referencing was a copyright violation and it inhibited traffic to his blog to have the whole thing reprinted. The advertisers pay for page views where their ads are displayed, AFAIK. Since he was editor, that revenue would naturally be a concern of his. :confused2:

    I know he was harsh, Lulu. I remember cringing when I saw his comment. But FWIW, he IS a New Yorker! They really do usually cut to the chase.
  15. NoName

    NoName A Girl Has No Name

    I didn't think that was such a big deal. The stat isn't just for Tony's ego or for some performance review by his boss. Commercial websites use the stats to attract advertisers. If he started blogging because the VV was in trouble, the stats become even more critical.
  16. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    I know. I don't fault him for that.

    I just got the impression that that was all he cared about.
  17. NoName

    NoName A Girl Has No Name

    Interacting would be problematic. He needs to at least pretend to be objective as a reporter. Also, as a reporter, his thoughts and his prose are for sale. Posting them here for free sorta defeats that purpose.
  18. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    I think there is probably alot of truth to the New York Observer article and Tony's "fear of Christine Brennan". Google her name with Village Voice Media. She has quite the reputation for harassing & firing staff & earning alot of people's wrath over it.
  19. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well it's hard to understand the true motivations of people but you have to realize that if he is posting this stuff, and being paid to do so then it HAS to be in the interest of his employer or he can't do it. And in that sort of job you often have to try to sell your bosses on what you would like to do. And sometimes bosses put up with things against their judgment for a while and then pull the plug.

    I'll have to hunt to find his post, I wasn't aware that he ever posted here - and as I said before I wouldn't be surprised if he posted under another name.

    My personal take is that he's not a saint out to try to end the abuses and all that but more or less, due to his profession, is more or less in it for the lulz and for what business that can generate. But at the same time I think he was probably amazed how far over the top scn could possibly be, and how little people at large knew about it, and apparently he became obsessed with it. It can be like this when you are a writer or musician, you have something you want to say but you want to get rich and famous too. Things can bump into each other.

    In any case I think there are a few things to keep in mind. For one he is going head to head with a pretty nasty cult who has admitted they want to "handle" him and it's not impossible that they might find a way to get him by the balls and shut him up, but I doubt that they managed to do that at this point.

    Two, the fact that he's leaving the Voice doesn't really mean that much now days. How much of us would have read the Voice if it weren't for him? Not many. He can set up a word press blog or whatever he wants. I'm sure he'll still be around.
  20. NoName

    NoName A Girl Has No Name

    He posted here under Tony O (or TonyO). People asked him to prove he was really Tony and not a troll after he posted re the copyright request. I can understand why people would ask, but I also understand why that part of the discussion really seriously pissed him off.