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Obamacare and Health Insurance for Sea Org & Staff (USA)

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by failboat, Sep 25, 2013.

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  1. failboat

    failboat Patron with Honors

    Hello ESMB

    I normally reside at WWP. I am crossposting this OP and some posts from a thread I started over on WWP a few weeks ago. If I get enough interest and requests, I will reproduce all of the important dox/links/quotes from there over here in this thread, in subsequent posts. Provisions of Obamacare begin on October 1, in less than 1 week.

    WWP Thread -

    Regarding Volunteers vs. Employees:

    Staff and Sea Org make more money than that. Any lodging or food received in lieu of pay would also count toward this $500 limit.

    Regarding Religious Exemption:

    Regarding October 1 Notifications:

    I've been especially looking for a US lawyer's opinion on this, but everyone's opinions and input are appreciated. Thanks in advance.

    EDIT: This thread isn't meant to devolve into a constitutional debate or a political debate, so please don't derail it with either subject.

    It's about fleshing out the law, AS IT CURRENTLY STANDS, and its effects on Sea Org, Staff, and Scientologists.
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2013
  2. OhMG

    OhMG Patron Meritorious

    God, more unconstitutional, job killing crap. Wish someone would try all the morons who pushed this for Treason and draw & quarter them already.
  3. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    It'll be interesting to see how many jobs are actually killed by requiring people to be insured.
  4. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    When I was at CCI I was doing a project to get insurance (medical and dental) for the staff. The CO (Dave Petit) was actually trying to see about getting a plan for the staff. I spent a lot of time getting information and quotes and we were about to go ahead with it and I got ripped off by RTC for a "special project" (Universe Corps) and it was dropped.

    I hope they do get insurance for them. My mom is still in the Sea Org and over 65. And probably never coming out.
  5. failboat

    failboat Patron with Honors

    Allow me to repeat something from the first quote in OP:

  6. OhMG

    OhMG Patron Meritorious

    It is already happening. Only one who has the IQ of the common garden snail or, lives in a cave without communications doesn't know that already.
  7. OhMG

    OhMG Patron Meritorious

    Churches are exempt.
  8. failboat

    failboat Patron with Honors

    Um. Read OP. It specifically says churches are not exempt. Seriously, I am finding it difficult to not resort to making insulting comments about your personal traits.

    This isn't a thread to debate the politics of Obamacare. This is a thread about the health insurance mandate and its effects on Staff, Sea Org, and Scientologists.

    You're derailing. Please start a thread debating the politics of Obamacare if that's your heart's desire.
  9. Winston Smith

    Winston Smith Flunked Scientology

    It is crap like this that lead Mark Levin to write the Liberty Amendments. The first proposed amendment concerns term limits for all congress and the supreme court. Further it provides for the nullification of idiotic supreme court decisions by 2/3rds of the House and Senate, or 2/3rds of the states. Just because the supreme court upheld ACA does not mean it is constitutional. Neither is Roe v Wade either for that matter, but that is beside the point.

    Levin detailed a few things in "Men in Black," his book on the supreme court. There have been literally blabbering fools serving on the court in the past. One had a stroke while a justice and was reduced to being a total fool; no one could understand him and he was beyond lunatic. But because of lifetime tenure, no one could get rid of him.

    Why do you think Ted Cruz is doing what he is doing?
  10. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    It's not that it is unconstitutional, but applying it to people who live in the states of the union and are not holding a public office, it is unconstitutional. The Supreme Court omitted that little fact.
    U.S. Supreme Court
    CARTER v. CARTER COAL CO., 298 U.S. 238 (1936)
    It is no longer open to question that the general government, unlike the states, Hammer v. Dagenhart, 247 U.S. 251, 275 , 38 S.Ct. 529, 3 A.L.R. 649, Ann.Cas.1918E 724, possesses no inherent power in respect of the internal affairs of the states; and emphatically not with regard to legislation.
  11. OhMG

    OhMG Patron Meritorious

    Yep. Also, most people don't know that the SCotUS has no constitutional authority to interpret the Constitution nor to declare laws "constitutional". FAR too many citizens are almost wholly ignorant of this most important document.
  12. failboat

    failboat Patron with Honors

    Insurance covers you when you cross state lines.

    People leave their states all the time to conduct interstate commerce.

    Interstate commerce is the federal government's jurisdiction.

    SCOTUS says it's constitutional. I don't know why there's so much resistance from you armchair internet lawyers.

    Finally, please stop derailing. This thread isn't meant to devolve into a constitutional debate or a political debate.

    It's about fleshing out the law, AS IT CURRENTLY STANDS, and its effects on Sea Org, Staff, and Scientologists.
  13. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    leaving your state just because you are insured, does not contitute interstate commerce.

    Regulating does not mean controling, it means to allow to flow freely.

    It does say, getting back to your OP that it has to have fifty employees or more. How many churches have that? It will work on the big orgs but the little orgs can avoid it.
  14. failboat

    failboat Patron with Honors

    Read the OP about the individual mandate and comment on the likelihood of individual Scientologists gaining exemption from it.

    They will still all have to buy insurance, or pay a fine. That's money the CoS doesn't get.
  15. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    Go for it. Uncover , I believe is a lawyer. Try PMing him.
  16. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    LOL!! Welcome to ESMB Failboat! I see you've met our resident flame throwing neo-Bircher OhMG. Just put him on your 'Ignore List'. I have myself and the forum is so much better now!! He's a real name calling asswipe.....ooooops I just called him a name. :ohmy:

    I knew when I read your OP that a handful of posters would just see the word "Obamacare" and starting seeing nothing but red. Then they would start pounding away on the keyboard, mostly recalling rants from Limbaugh, Hannity, Levin, Beck, etc....:eyeroll:

    Of course all you were trying to do was show how this law could impact the CoS negatively. Now you're going to probably get a schooling in the Constitution and a knee jerk right wing radio show. Fun eh?

    Hopefully others will come along and understand your OP and then engage in a meaningful discussion. Hopefully..

    Welcome again Failboat!!

    For the Record: I myself do loathe Obamacare, and I think it will be a terrific failure. But that has nothing to do with the OP. Thankya....thankya very much...:biggrin:
  17. OhMG

    OhMG Patron Meritorious

    Churches themselves are exempt.
  18. iHateDuplicity

    iHateDuplicity Patron with Honors

    Per the OP, churches are not exempt and the Cof$ is one very large organization when it comes to this law. I think it is going to have a negative impact on the Cof$ if they can't somehow gain exemption from it. I don't know if they have anyone working on it right now, since they tend to be such Last-Minute Louie's when it comes to handling things like this, but we'll see. I would be idly curious if anyone in the Cof$ has yet been informed about the health care issues since they are supposed to do that much.

    As to the constitutionality of Obamacare, I don't agree with it in any way shape or form. But I'm not going to get into that here out of respect for the OP and the point of this thread. If OhMG wants to rant about it, please do so on a separate thread and respect the OPs message.
  19. failboat

    failboat Patron with Honors

    The power of assertion only makes you into the 1st 3 letters. Read the OP:

  20. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    So I would be guessing that most Sea Org members are based in the US. How much will this cost the cult to have to provide healthcare for them? This could be a bit of a Tylenol moment for Davey - and you know that means first aid for everyone else!