ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Oh! God!!!

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Vinaire, May 6, 2009.

  1. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    GOD: [related to Sanskrit HAVATE call, 'that which is invoked']

    As declared in most religions, God is the Creator of this universe. From the viewpoint of Science, there has to be an 'Ultimate Cause' responsible for the origin of this Physical Universe, and which is responsible for keeping this Physical Universe there at this moment. If we regard this 'Ultimate Cause' as God, the following arguments may be offered:

    The Physical universe is made up of Space, Time, Matter, and Energy. Each of these are created entities - created by God.

    God created Space in which all material exists. Not subject to Space, God has no location in Space. Though God may locate Itself, but only in terms of what It creates.

    God created Time which is the persistence of space and objects. Not subject to Time, God has no physical persistence or manifestation that can be objectively perceived. Though God may manifest Itself, but only in terms of what It creates.

    God created Matter and Energy, which make up all physical things and their activities. Not subject to Matter and Energy, God has no form, shape, or physical identity. Though God may assume any identity, but this identity would be a created thing.

    God is the Creator of the universe or the 'Ultimate Cause' which brought about this physical universe, and which maintains it right now. Beyond this, the description and understanding of God depends on one's own system of religious beliefs and experiences.

    Last edited: May 6, 2009
  2. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Nicely Put . . .

    Nicely put, Vin.

    Here is something to ponder. "God," having created space, time, energy and matter can consider itself to be located relative to said space, time, energy and matter; or otherwise, it can consider that space, time, energy and matter is located relative to it

    Now, what do you think the comparative consequences of either consideration would be? :)

    Last edited: May 6, 2009
  3. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    It gives itself an identity in terms of a location, persistence, and form.

    The first identification is with its own consideration.

    That consideration is God!

  4. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor


    RELIGION: [from Latin RELIGIO obligation, bond]

    The word, RELIGION, has been used in the sense of 'bond between human beings and the gods'. Religion explores the ultimate relationship of Man with the Universe and its Creation. It dictates a system of wisdom and practice, gained from cultural experience, insight, and inspiration to be followed by Man in life and livingness to achieve optimum survival. Some of the major religions are Buddhism, Christianity, Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, and Shinto.

  5. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor


    If CREATION is like a "number line," then GOD is definitely the "zero" on it.

    ZERO is the reference point for all other quantities.

  6. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor


    SCIENCE: [from Latin SCIRE to know]

    The word, SCIENCE, has been used in the sense of 'knowing' as opposed to 'belief'. Science deals with facts that are learned from careful study and experiments, and it organizes from these facts a system of knowledge about things in nature and the universe. This knowledge allows one to predict observable phenomena, and to develop useful applications. Science includes subjects such as Physics, Astronomy, Chemistry, and Medicine.

  7. Tiger Lily

    Tiger Lily Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yea, and of course Scientology . . . . it says so right in its name!!! :unsure:

    :eyeroll: TL
  8. Telepathetic

    Telepathetic Gold Meritorious Patron

    Interesting pos.

    I just had a thought; religion seems to delude and dilute ones relationship to, whatever that is which we call, God.

  9. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor


    PHYSICS: [from Greek PHYSIS nature]

    Physics is that science which investigates the nature of objects and phenomena that Man observes in the universe about him. Physics reduces this "physical universe" into four basic constituents: Matter, Energy, Space, and Time. We perceive these in many different forms, such as, weight, motion, force, light, heat, sound, electricity, etc.

    Physics does not regard God, spirit, life force, and the characteristics associated with these, such as, self-determinism, sense of responsibility, intelligence, etc., as part of its subject matter. Such "spiritual phenomena" is distinct from the physical phenomena, because it is part of the observer, and subjective in nature, and has remained in the domain of religion.

    This subjective "spiritual universe" can be differentiated from the physical universe in that it has self-determinism or "causativeness" as a characteristic, which is not present in the physical universe. Life may be considered the interplay of the "spiritual universe" with the physical universe.

    Thus, the "spiritual universe" and life are not included in the study of Physics, which deals with objective and other-determined phenomena.

  10. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor


    SPACE: [from Latin SPATIUM distance]

    The idea of Space comes from the fact that the point being viewed is separate from the point one is viewing from. This separation may be very small, as between you and this page; or very large, as when you view the stars in a clear night sky. This separation, or dimension, in the physical universe occurs in three mutually exclusive directions, known as length, breadth (width), and height (depth), as when we perceive the space in a room, or in the Grand Canyon.

    Objects in the physical universe extend over these three dimensions and thus they occupy space. Space is simply that property that we perceive as dimensions or size. The book, table, TV, etc. that you see, have size, and they occupy space. The size of objects is measured in terms of length, area, and volume.

    In short, space may be defined as the inherent separation between viewpoint and the point being viewed. There is no space without viewpoint, and there is no space if there are no points to view. Space is that through which one looks at things, as the space between you and this page.

  11. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor


    TIME: [from Old English, a certain section of existence]

    The concept of Time comes from the fact that objects in the physical universe persist. This persistence may be short-lived, such as, that of a flash of light; or it may seem to continue for ever, such as, that of sun, moon, stars, etc.

    Time is measured by the motion of heavenly bodies or with clocks, but Time, itself, is not Motion. Time is simply that property which we perceive as the persistence of space and objects. The duration of this persistence is what we measure against a constantly repeating motion. The book, table, chair, etc. that you see, are persisting and therefore, there is Time.

    Time and Space are defined against each other in that to go from one end of the room to the other requires Space as well as Time.

  12. Ladybird

    Ladybird Silver Meritorious Patron

    I agree. Religion puts God on a via.
  13. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    Religion adds "computation" to simple looking.

  14. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor


    MOTION: [from Latin MOTIO, a moving]

    Motion is a change of position in space, either in the position of the point being viewed; such as, when you watch a train go by, or in the position of the viewpoint; such as, when you are travelling in a train, and the scenery appears to go by. In other words, motion is a manifestation of change in viewpoint of points in space.

  15. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor


    ENERGY: [from Greek ENERGEIA something moving or being active]

    Energy is actual or potential motion. A fast moving car has a lot more energy than a car that is moving slowly. If a car is stopped on a slope it has a potential for motion, or potential energy, because it would move down if the brakes are released.

    Energy is experienced as light, heat, sound, electricity, etc., but all these are basically different forms of motion. For example, Sound travels as motion, transmitted by air particles, which is then impressed against our ear. Sound requires a material particle media, for it cannot travel in vacuum. Light, on the other hand, travels as a wave motion that does not require a material media, but requires space.

    Free flowing energy, such as light, acts like a wave and does not persist for long. However, to the degree energy is condensed into less space, it becomes more like a particle, such as photon, and gains persistence or TIME.

  16. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor


    MATTER: [from Latin MATERIA hard inner wood of a tree]

    All matter is a tight or loose group of small particles, which is essentially condensed energy. Matter is that of which anything is composed of. Wood, iron, plastic are solid form of matter. They are solid because they resist any change in shape. Water, oil, drinks are liquid form of matter. These take the shape of any container into which they are poured, but they do not necessarily fill it. Air and other gases are freely moving form of matter that expands to fill its container.

  17. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    Space and Abstraction

    When one is dealing with SPACE, one is basically dealing with ABSTRACTION.

    There are two aspects to Space: DIRECTION and DIMENSION. These two aspects are necessary to determine a location. You have to look in a certain direction by a certain dimension to arrive at a point or location.

    In Geometry, this is the basis of POLAR COORDINATES.

  18. Björkist

    Björkist Silver Meritorious Patron

    Vinaire, your threads (and contributions to other threads) are always a great read.

    I'm looking forward to more.
  19. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor


    DIRECTION: ['straighten' from Latin DIS- apart + REGERE guide]

    A direction is established in space by looking at a point from another. The main directions in the Earth's frame of reference are North, South, East, West, Zenith, and Nadir.

    When one is looking at a point or location, one is looking in a direction. There are as many directions as there are points to be viewed around one, such as, left, right, back, front, up, down, etc. A direction is measured in degrees of angle relative to a reference direction.

  20. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor


    DIMENSION: [from Latin DIS- off + METIRI to measure]

    A dimension is established when a point is separated from another. It is a measure of distance between two points. There is a dimension between you and anything you look at.

    Dimension of anything also refers to its size or extent. All material things such as, table, chair, walls, etc., have dimension. There are three mutually exclusive dimensions - length, breadth, and depth - in physical space. These are measured by using standard units of Length.