ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Ortega and Paulette Cooper CNN..

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous Reports from Newspapers, Blogs, and ' started by degraded being, Apr 7, 2015.

View Users: View Users
  1. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

  2. Churchill

    Churchill Gold Meritorious Patron

    I thought the discussion was interesting, and it was particularly good to see and hear Paulette Cooper.

    I didn't think Reza Aslan's comment was well-informed or helpful, but Tony, Paulette, Tory & Steve Hassan were excellent.
  3. oneonewasaracecar

    oneonewasaracecar Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'm not surprised about Reza Aslan. He is an Islamic apologist who frequently and knowingly lies.
  4. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    The Reza Aslans of the world sell a lie . A cult is a group that tries to take over all or nearly all of the decision making of members . Religious beliefs are not the factor in determining this . Totalism is and uses abuse and thought reform to achieve this . Lifton's eight criteria for thought reform is the measuring stick . The religion idea is a red herring used to misdirect and hide a lie . Cults are extreme abusive relationships spread out over groups . A couple paragraphs of truth can cut through the lies .A cult is to a group as a relationship based on respect , honesty and equality is to one with an unaware vulnerable victim and a narcissist who is also a sociopath and expertly confuses , abuses and exploits and enslaves their victim . The two are 180 degrees apart . They can only superficially resemble each other . The abuse is the symptom the outside world can see . Underneath it is not the same at all .
  5. Udarnik

    Udarnik Gold Meritorious Patron

    Aslan is, at least superficially, a Sufi mystic.

    Sufism is the goofiest branch of Islam, they have no room to throw stones at cults for their goofy beliefs.
  6. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    Reza is a mutual friend of Lawrence Wright.
  7. Udarnik

    Udarnik Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yeah, And Laffy was a "friend" of Robert Heinlein and Isaac Asimov. (Well, moved in the same social circles as they did, which is about the same as a Facebook Friend). Isaac couldn't stand him. :p

    Reza has made quite a splash for himself with the chattering classes. He's still an idiot. I've got some idiots on my FB friends list, too. :biggrin:
  8. koki

    koki Silver Meritorious Patron

    and Kevin Bacon?
  9. everfree

    everfree Patron Meritorious

    I think the key to understanding unknowing hypnosis/mind control as opposed to valid therapy lies in this quote you posted on your blog:

    “Any time anybody gets enough altitude he can be called a hypnotic operator, and what he says will act as hypnotic suggestion. Hypnotism is a difference in levels of altitude…if the operator can heighten his own altitude with regard to the subject…he doesn’t have to put the subject to sleep. What he says will still react as a hypnotic suggestion….With parity, such as occurs between acquaintances, friends, fellow students and so on, there is no hypnotic suggestion” (Education and Dianetics, 11 November 1950, Research and Discovery, volume 4). Source Jon Atack

    I grew up expecting to be some sort of research scientist, so I expected all of my work to be "peer reviewed" as a matter of course, to ensure I did not make a mistake, and to ensure my knowledge/discovery could be reproduced by others on and "equal to equal" or "peer to peer" basis, to avoid observational bias, which is at the heart of scientific inquiry.

    A valid therapist would work on ~lessening~ their "altitude" over their patient so as not to be a dominant, hypnotic operator but to bring out the patient's highest self with complete power of choice over what the therapist offers. If Hubbard had been a real "emancipator", he would have worked on ensuring he ended up on the bottom and his patient ended up on top. Real therapists take care to avoid using their "altitude" to exploit their patients, Hubbard appears to have knowingly used it to exploit. He wanted to stay on top, he did not have a plan for us to end up on top (our own "Total Freedom"). Thus he was a dominator/enslaver, not an emancipator.

    He appears to have liked money a whole lot. I was more interested in spiritual advancement and was willing to work for free where he would only accept cash as he made plain over and over.