Ot III and beyond sources plagiarized from

Discussion in 'Scientology Technology' started by mockingbird, Mar 9, 2015.

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  1. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    [​IMG] ][​IMG]

    This post is to address some common misconceptions held by never ins , press , Scientologists and often even exes and critics . Specifically regarding the OT III story and influences that extend all through Scientology.

    I personally find the more I look at Scientology materials closely ( and listen to advice on this from Jon Atack and Arnie Lerma on where to look ) the more I ALWAYS find the same exact conclusion and concur with them on this issue : ALL Dianetics and Scientology materials are actually plagiarized and repackaged from other - usually earlier- sources that are not credited .They go through the same process over and over of getting altered for concealing where they came from . I call it filing off the serial numbers - change them just enough to make them look slightly different . Later Hubbard stressed making them fit and support all the framework and lies his sci-fi spiritual mish-mosh was built on but primarily he stressed hiding that he was not actually the source of anything . He called himself source as a countermeasure against discovery - it is one of the first things a Scientologist must accept about him and the subject to be accepted by the cult .

    A case in point is how many see the OT III story and think Hubbard made it up while drunk and addicted to drugs and it and he are insane . Well that is almost right except for one part that becomes more significant the more you understand it .

    He stole OT III entirely from other sources - even the auditing and the name Xemu and the spaceships transporting evil spirits to Earth and binding them in clusters to humans which require exorcism - ALL of it .People often focus on how silly the story seems to grown ups . Yeah , it is bizarre bullshit and to my mind- like all the content of Dianetics and Scientology -100% false and Hubbard always knew he was lying about it .

    The thing I want to get folks to look at is that it is not his idea , not even a little bit and he stole it from several sources and combined them to make this insane cult doctrine and the procedure to handle the BTs ( Body Thetans you exorcise in OT III and above they, are alien spirits from 75 million years ago flown to Earth in spaceships and blown up with H-bombs in volcanoes then implanted and stuck in people to drive us crazy in Scientology doctrine - hey I did not write it and do not believe it ).

    He stole almost all of this from Oahspe an insane cult text from an earlier cult that has been described as a mind control cult ...this is feeling familiar somehow... anyway this insane cult text has many elements in common with OT III and in fact upon close examination ( good luck it is truly bizarre and jarring mentally to read - and I spent thousands of hours getting indoctrinated in Hubbard's cult doctrine so..if I feel that way most people will find this stuff incomprehensible as it is ).

    I am going to try to very briefly use a small sampling of quotes to show this but to really objectively determine it I recommend one learn the content of Ot III and the other OT levels and how the auditing is done ( if you do not already know it well ) and then read Oahspe or at least some descriptions of it and key sections and quotes on your own to independently decide if I am right , part right or dead wrong for yourself .

    above quotes From Wikipedia

    From Lermanet.com

    Now to quotes from Oahspe itself .

    above quotes from Oahspe parenthetical remarks by myself

    Next is some of Hubbard's repackaging of some of these ideas for his fraud ( still false ideas but being sold as another brand by another man )
    Hubbard quotes- they recast key elements in sci fi framework to fit the rest of Scientology

    Next a quoted section about Qahspe from the publisher to help briefly describe it

    ( notably this has key ideas for Scientology often in differing original forms - BTs , being bonded to them , grades , BTs causing illness and misfortune , purification , working one's way up grades and differing levels of awareness, a heaven[ outer space ] full of populated worlds and many spaceships flying through there in the distant past , the insignificance of Earth and the OTs out in the universe making and controlling worlds, how to raise children , how to attain a higher spiritual state and escape a lower one - is this the basis for a lot of Scientology or am I off somehow ? )

    quote from
    The Publisher's Synopsis of Oahspe, The New Bible Book of Es, Daughter of Jehovih Now a couple more quotes from Hubbard on his repackaged version of this to compare :

    Ron Hubbard

    Now this is the real story of Ot III and Scientology - plagiarized cult ideas that were used in an earlier mind control cult to delude and abuse followers . That is where Hubbard's "science" and "religion " come from - they are fakes no science no religion ever . It is a CULT made from earlier cult doctrine with some pseudoscience mixed in to fool modern audiences and mind control from hypnotism , the occult , psychology and other sources like Hitler and plagiarized rhetorical methods and sublime writing to entice and enthrall victims . The idea to get is not that OT III and other ideas in Scientology are silly or weird - they are stolen and calculated to function as they have in earlier practices - to confuse then control people into becoming slaves covertly . Some ideas were less insidious in their original form but all become pernicious in Hubbard's twisted combination to enslave and abuse . And I have yet to find one that produces any of the miracles or enlightenment Scientology claims . And I was in for 25 years and have known hundreds of Scientologists and met probably thousands . So please help get out the word Scientology is not weird ideas Hubbard pulled out of his ass that suckers fell for . It is entirely ideas that persuaded people in the past that have been taken and combined intentionally to persuade them now . It is not true and Hubbard never sought or found truth with it - he always sought a way to covertly confuse then control THAT is what Scientology is . Furthermore , If you look at Crowley and Hitler's doctrine and practices and know Scientology well you can see he used their ideas from the beginning to the very end consistently . Not exactly the role models I want to base my life around - that is why he had to hide them . I invite end encourage all exes and indies and Scientologists to consider these ideas and look more at these two for further proof - or lack thereof .
  2. ethercat

    ethercat Cat in flight

    I just wanted to say that unless Hubbard did actually have OT powers - which I don't believe for one nanosecond - they would have to be from earlier sources.

  3. Intentionally Blank

    Intentionally Blank Scientology Widow

    When you say all of Scientology - would that include those below the level of clear?

  4. Dave B.

    Dave B. Maximus Ultimus Mostimus

    Some questions come to mind for me.

    Newbrough. Dentist. Messing around with Nitrous Oxide?? Did nitrous exist at that time?

    Hubbard had his encounter with the Askashic Records after a nitrous dental thing.

    Wallace Ford. Half-British half-Maori immigrant to the US Founder author of Nation of Islam Detroit USA circa 1930. The NOI cosmology is very similar to Hubbards, with time frames like 66 trillion years, labs where bodies are created, etc etc. The NOI used to hand out promo publicly in the 1970's with all the data on it. I do not know about now. It may be considered "classifed". Anyway, Ford or Fard as he was called related this upper-level info to Elijah Muhammed and at some point "disappeared". I always thought he was one of those guys who got into OT3 materials and died from it.

    Did Ford ever have a nitrous dental operation? Honest question.

    I think calling Hubbard a plagarizer is not really useful.

    This "OT3" information seems to be out there. Seems to be from several different sources. Is it your incident? I don't know, depends if you were here, right? Seems to be Hubbards incident, for sure.

    Affects the inhabitants of 21 stars in the local area... etc. hardly a universal plague. Implanters up to implanter games seems to me. And in my opinion a function of living in such a ghetto, "eastside" kind of star area. You can laugh at that if you want but from everything I've seen it's the fucking Wild West out here.

    Yes, I think it happened. How it happened is open to interpretation.
  5. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    The crazy bit is that if the story were actually fact automatic writing would bring it out. There would be automatic writers all over the place coming up with the same story. The story would be part of folk mythology round the world. There would be stories in the Andes, among the Bushmen and the Shamans in Siberia would tell of it. I have never heard anything like this anywhere else apart from this oddball Victorian abnormality, comic books and then Mr H.
  6. Dave B.

    Dave B. Maximus Ultimus Mostimus

    And Wallace Ford.
  7. Leon-2

    Leon-2 Patron Meritorious

    I have a question to ask re all of the above.

    The question is: So what?

    The validity or workability or usefulness of OT-3 has nothing whatever to do with its origins - whether they be Hubbard himself or Crowley or Oaspe or Rosicrucian or or hypnotism or the manual of psychiatry. None of it is of any relevance at all.

    All that is relevant is: Can a person make gains (and I mean gains according to his own perception of what gains could be) by doing OT-3?

    If he/she does then it is relevant and worthwhile for him.

    If he doesn't then it was not worthwhile.

    And that is all there is to it.
  8. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    This is just plain stupid.

    The entire structure and the reason for existing at all .....for the Sea Org.....is OT 3.

    Your post above...."and that is all there is to it" is extremely short sighted.....

    Xenu probably came from a Comic Book....and some public celebration on Las Palmas....that has been talked about here.....not to mention LRH's drug addled brain.....accounts for incident 1 and 2.......Geeze....

    There is simply no archaeological nor geological proof...that OT 3 occurred....besides the absurdity of it ...in the first place...

    I'm not going to say more....
  9. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    I think the point is that it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if it is fiction if 'running the incident' created OTs, as it doesn't make super beings but anxious financially raped beings then there is no need to dig up volcanoes looking for nineteen fifties aircraft.
  10. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I"ll have to agree with Leland, although I know what you are saying.

    But, what about that little ole scientology axiom of viewing something thoroughly will as-is it,

    or the exact truth is the exact time, place, form and event?

    So, how can it be not true if one is to as-is?

    Now you are saying it doesn't matter if the event of OT3 was true or not? And it only matters if a person got a gain or not. That's the same as a placebo.
  11. Gib

    Gib Crusader


    People below the the level of clear do not know the story. It's a secret and the only hint of it is Hubbards taped communication known as RJ67 released to the general scientology public. Hubbard calls it the "wall of fire".

    This RJ67 is basically a mystery sandwich communication as well as a sublime writing of a lofty writing to create awe and wonder in a scientologist below the level of clear (and even above clear).

    Here is a reference of sublime writing (1897):

    https://books.google.com/books?id=r...=onepage&q=sublime and belles lettres&f=false
  12. Leon-2

    Leon-2 Patron Meritorious

    This is an interesting reply.

    So the entire reason for the Sea Org existing at all is the OT-3 incident, is it? I would say not. For those who are trapped within the Sea Org mindset perhaps it is. But that is just the freebie bit of "status" that LRH duped them into buying. For those outside it - it's all a big maybe.

    Is it comic book short sightedness? I don't think so. Consider: One of the very effective methods of getting a guy to run past lives - when he can't - is to get him to run imaginary incidents. Science of Survival has something on this in it. Get the guy to imagine where he might have been and what might have happened to him and run that. You'ld be amazed at how soon he gets into something that moves the TA, that produces real somatics in the session and that when run standardly produces huge relief for the guy. So was it all really imaginary?

    And then there is Jung and his dream symbolism. Running so called phoney incidents which may or may not be true can still have the preclear using them as symbolic representations for something that might have happened to him at some time. And again, running it produces relief and cognitions.

    So go ahead and run it, I say. If there's gains then the preclear benefits.

    I truly have no idea whether or not the OT-3 incident happened or not. I don't give a shit one way or the other. But I have had numerous people whom I C/Sed through it and all of them made gains. Me included. So what the hell. Do it. Maybe there was something like it, maybe it was exactly like LRH says. maybe there was something totally different. Who knows? Not me.

    As for expecting archaeological or geological proof - now you're in comic book territory. Some years ago National Geographic magazine sent a dive team to Bikini atoll to see what the underwater landscape looked like after the 100 plus nukes that were exploded there in the 1950s. Surprise surprise they found no trace of anything that indicated that anything untoward had ever happened there. And this after only 40 or 50 years. If you expect anything to be there after all the alleged millions of years since the incident then you're dreaming. There is an Iridium layer of off-planet origin in the geological strata that occurred at round about that time but that certainly proves nothing.

    So I say again. Whether Hubs dubbed it in or whether he plagiarized it from somewhere else or whether it is just Sci-Fi bullshit that he wrote to get guys in the Sea Org to have an enormous galactic sense of mission - who cares?

    All I care is that guys make gains from the auditing they get.
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2015
  13. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    and if they do not gains,

    what will you do?
  14. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    My rebuttal:

    Well....Earth is not all like a atoll in the Pacific Ocean.

    LRH...on talking about OT 3 and Teegeack....If I remember correctly said that this planet had approximately 75 BILLION people on it....PLUS...I would imagine....all the others....brought here on space ships that looked like DC 3s....as that is what OT 3 is about....

    He stated that there were major metropolitan areas...(cities all over earth...) There would have to have been MASSIVE infrastructure to support 75 billion people on this planet. Not one bit of proof has been found of this....by anyone.

    He stated that Sicily had a major city....(these cities he spoke about...I imagine had huge skyscrapers....)

    Greece...and then Rome.....have built all over Sicily in ancient times....American troops invaded Italy via Sicily during WWII.....Modern Italy has built all over Sicily. Sicily is a chunk of rock. There is are no ancient remains of a "space alien" city on Sicily.....

    And further more......there was no Sicily 75 million years ago.....!!


    LRH apparently was not aware of, or did not take into consideration tectonic plate shifting...or continents moving....from 75 million years ago....

    LRH says "Fifth Invader Force" ran Egypt.....................BULLSHIT!

    Why are pyramids all over earth...? Because that is the only architectural form that ancients could build that could be built tall.....

    Egyptians did not even have iron....let alone steel. They cut the rocks with copper tools and cut them with copper saws with abrasives....

    That "Chariots of the Gods" guy....pulled a big con. Sure it is popular, and many people believe....but there is not one iota of proof...after all these decades.
  15. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    Many people have spent decades in Scientology.....to even get to OT 3.

    The entire purpose of the Sea Org...was to "protect and deliver OT 3."

    Yet....with this huge outlay of effort and work and blood and sweat and tears....and dodging the cops and.....protecting the structure of the "church" ......all to deliver the "upper bridge"..........

    What did HubTard do.....???????

    He apparently jotted off.....a couple pages of a bullshit story....and sold it to us.....

    After all the time and effort to get to OT 3....to pay for it.....to probably move to Los Angels or some other location that offers it.....what do you get....?

    Some couple pages of confused writting.....apparently just written down ..."off the cuff".......

    NO DETAIL. NO FACTS.....NO PROOF. Absolutely nothing scientific..... And we are talking about some "supposedly real..." for which proof could be found...I suppose....somewhere.

    NO thorough well laid out writing about it at all.....

    What he wrote has holes big enough to throw an elephant through them....

    Yet....you are told "this is DEADLY" material to read....!!

    If it were "DEADLY", don't you think he would have put a bit more effort into it.......FOR US?????????????

    AND,,,in all the decades since the release of OT3......has the "Church" done one thing to prove it?????

    The Cult now has 1.7 BILLION dollars in the bank.

    Don't you think that after all these decades....they could have set up an expedition to go to some location...or several locations....and drilled a hole...or dug a hole someplace...and say....HEY LOOK....Here is part of an ancient "advanced" civilization.....???????

    BUT NO!! They have not.

    And they have not....because there was not one.

    The OT 3 story is a lie.....

    It is just another of Hub Tubs science fiction stories.....

    Hells Bells.....he spent more effort and time on one science fiction story he sold.....than he did on the OT 3 story....



  16. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Leon2, the very reason people do run past life incidents and believe them to be real is because they used their imagination to create them.

    So of course if a person wants to run past lives but is having trouble, an auditor doing what Hubbard says to do would help the person along in learning how to create them from imagination.

    This is just Hubbard's method of saying that some people need to get the ball rolling this way, by creating imaginary past life incidents in order to get sucked into believing they once experienced incidents in an imaginary past life.

    There are hundreds of 'OTs' who will openly tell you that they no longer believe in what they once knew to be their whole track. Some, however, are still trying to overcome the sense of shame that they ever believed in the first place.

    I do agree that it is not important to know where Hubbard got his OT tech from. I could care less.
  17. Leon-2

    Leon-2 Patron Meritorious

    Hypothetical question. It's never happened. I have no idea what I will do.
  18. Leon-2

    Leon-2 Patron Meritorious

    Leland and AnonMary - I have no problem with what you wrote here. None of it is incompatible with what I wrote.

    All OK except for one little detail by Leland - there is no way in hell that the rocks the pyramids are made of could have been chiseled out with copper tools. No friggin way at all.
  19. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    From me then Blanky

    .( this is another key concept fundamental to all of Scientology - that spirits will degrade and become BTs without the OT levels and thus hold down other spirits in a group death spiral into blindness , amnesia , pain and eternal damnation and oblivion that is inescapable if Scientology does not clear earth NOW )
    When you say all of Scientology - would that include those below the level of clear?


    The "you will all die horribly and not survive earth " is something all Scientologists are taught in KSW and other places . Hubbard does not give all the details as he uses the mystery to compel further reaching for answers via rhetoric . But in KSW you get the idea that degrade enough beings can reach a state where they are blind . with amnesia and in pain forever and insane . This is something I was heavily indoctrinated in from day one in Scientology .

    So Gib is right in that you do not get the OT III story in full until there but you get the theme from Oahspe of spirits degrading and falling into states where they cannot pick up a body and are insane and incapable of reversing the dwindling spiral . These ideas are all in Oahspe and like a lot of doctrine in Scientology it expands and shifts as you move up the pyramidal cult thought reform structure er "bridge to total freedom ".

    I may address Leon later I gotta go now . :run:
  20. Intentionally Blank

    Intentionally Blank Scientology Widow

    Awesome. Thanks. That helps.