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Out of Body with perception? Still like the idea?

Discussion in 'Human Potential, Self Discovery' started by Veda, May 11, 2019.

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  1. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Hi Roger, please watch his video from :30 on for a few moments. If you go to the store to buy replacement batteries and they have 50 1.4 V batteries in stock - that does not equate to 75 volts potential as he seems to state. Or am I missing something?

    Another thing - how did the 1.4V/cell electric potential suddenly morph into chi?

    He must be omitting something or I am spectacularly dense.

    If the potential is as you state, a driving force to pull nutrients into the cell, I doubt it would be available to be used as Chi.

    If I understand the definition of a battery correctly, power flows out from the cathode on one end of the battery around in a circuit and back into the other side, the anode. That is not the same thing as a difference in potential between the surface and the interior of a living cell.

    Further, DG's point about the e-meter current's completing the circuit, could have negative effects to the body's natural electrical balance perhaps resulting in the high statistic of OT cancer cases. Having audited on solo nots, I can say with certainty, you spend a lot of time on the e-meter. Perhaps it should have been an induction circuit where there is no addition of a current into the body.

    Chi, as defined below seems to equate to the aura we see in other practices.


    "Energy is described in Western culture as vigor, life, spirit, passion, power, and electromagnetism. The Hindus call vital energy prana. The Hebrew name for "vital energy" is ruah. The Chinese define energy as life force, or chi."

    "Chi, in Eastern medicine, is the vital energy that flows though each organ and system of the body. All of these organs and systems are connected by this vital energy so if an organ is sick you must look at the entire body to find the cause of illness. This chi, or energy, is found at a molecular level. Western medicine would call this vital energy "electromagnetism," which holds the atoms in orbit around each other in your body. Chinese medicine works on the construct that when your body is sick, your chi, or energy, is out of balance and the flow of vital energy must be restored to a healthy flow. The way I describe this to my clients and patients is to imagine your body as a home that is wired with electrical wiring. Your body's electrical system is just like your home: Sometimes there is a short in the circuit or a loose wire. You call your electrician to get the flow of electricity going again. In Chinese medicine you can go to an acupuncture practitioner or practice tai chi or Qigong for the same effect."
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
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  2. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Perhaps he means that a current has an electromagnetic field around it, so the current flow from the surface to the center of the cell, has this electromagnetic field, and multiplied by billions of cells gives us the chi or aura?

    And if that electromagnetic field has an implicit order to it - an underlying shape, such as a man has 2 arms, legs, torso, head, that would give you one type of field. Compare, say, where as a horse has 4 legs, a tail, a plant digesting system, it's field would be intrinsically different.

    There would be the morphic fields Sheldrake posits.

    So, if you can manipulate the field, to realign non-optimum areas, could healing occur?

    Nice theory! Maybe I should get a crowd fund going. Mimsyism shall have scientific recognition at long last.

    Last edited: May 31, 2019
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  3. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    I didn't watch the vid, Mimsey, because it seemed too hokey for me, especially switching to chi, but as far as batteries go:

    "Adding cells in a string increases the voltage; the capacity remains the same. If you need an odd voltage of, say, 9.50 volts, connect five lead acid, eight NiMH or NiCd, or three Li-ion in series. The end battery voltage does not need to be exact as long as it is higher than what the device specifies."

    More info on how to arrange batteries to increase voltage or capacity at link:
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  4. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    My point was the current wants to flow the cathode to the anode - not internally, but externally. I know the difference between wiring batteries in series or in parallel. If it flowed internally, the battery would discharge post haste.

    Moving on to the video - he is using an incorrect analogy by stating a living cell is a battery. He should be discussing the current inside the cell instead, or the difference in potential.

    A current is surrounded by an electromagnetic field.

    "A wire carrying electric current will produce a magnetic field with closed field lines surrounding the wire."


    That miniscule current, that goes from the surface of the living cell, into the interior of the cell, multiplied by the billions of cells that have it, adds up to something substantial.

    My thought was that the sum total of all the electromagnetic fields surrounding those currents of all the living cells could be considered Chi or an aura.

    Sorry if I wasn't clearer in what I wrote earlier.

    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
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  5. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    Here's what we have left of what Lerma had uncovered about how the Emeter is used to enslave you in Scientology, there are a few rabbit holes here where if the links still work, point to a lot of advanced thought on the overall scenario.
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
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  6. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Mimsey, my man, I am up to my eyeballs in other traffic too much to give your questions and discourse the full answer it and you deserve. I am headed out of town for two weeks . . . early morning AMTRAK, and all that.

    But there are two simple propositions to consider . . . .

    1) Chi, Prana and all the other labels of spiritual Life Force is primary and thus manifesting in various expressions in the physical universe, like, for example energy in living bodily cells, or;
    2) Physical universe "energy" is primary and that we are derivative of and/or created by (somehow) the physical universe . . . and that Chi, et al, is merely physical universe phenomena.

    Lipton has complicated and not made clear which is which and/or what position on this he has taken.

    And that is the conundrum you have to resolve for yourself . . . no amount of other people's experience, knowledge or certainty on the matter is going to resolve it for you. :oops:
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  7. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Roger, has it ever occurred to you that maybe there isn't this complete separation and it's not an either/or thing?

    That maybe energy, in all of its forms, life and otherwise, just continues?

    That maybe neither proposed answer to the origin of life energy is anywhere close to correct?
  8. Karakorum

    Karakorum supressively reasonable

    An out of body perception nearly the opposite of what one should be going for.

    I myself suggest the tested and true emptiness meditation. Sunnata, or if you prefer the occidental term: "blankness" or henosis-oriented comtemplation.

    The goal is not to see the universe from outside your body. The goal is to, in some sense, go against the current of the subsequent hypostais, aiming to perceive the ousia of the One.
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  9. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Now that I am back from travels . . . .

    Sheila, my love . . . that in red above is exactly what I have been saying . . . as noted elsewhere, physical universe "energy" is actually formed spiritual Life-Force.

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  10. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Ah, that's not what I meant, but I get ya.
  11. Me and My Self

    Me and My Self Self-born, Autogamous Unicorn

    Given the scarcity of "feedback emoticons" and that only one of them can be used at a time, here's to you a bouquet of heart-shaped "tomatoes" :heartflower: to fulfill your expressed wish ... :whistling:but above all, to :buzzin:THANK YOU :yay:for such a thorough description of all the possible interpretations I could have thought of, and furthermore the "bonus addition" I hadn't yet fathomed.

    I was reading the whole thread and meanwhile making a list of several of my most coincident experiences as to expanded consciousness/being exterior/whatever so I could share them later on including possible interpretations in line with several of the versions you list. Now I'll have to re-scan the whole thing through the filter of your "Number Eleven" :) quoted "imagination/daydreaming" alternative.
    ( :scratch: Could there also be another one yet in the like of "all of the above"? :rubeyes:J/K ...)

    After finally finishing the whole thing (and wondering if I was over-reacting by distributing more like, thanks, love and winner muppets all around than I usually do) I just want to summarize them all in a single, heartfelt
    (insert BOW here) :rose:¡¡¡GRACIAS!!! :rose:to ALL of you (insert HUG here)
    (nevermind - found them :bow::budhug:)

    for speeding up my recovery of who I really AM
    (so I can find out sooner ... :blink: ... among so many BTs!!! :grouphug:)


    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
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  12. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    That's the basic buddhism principle!
    Life just continues in all die, worms eat your meat body and their shit makes the soil rich which provides nutriments for the trees

    Scientology consists mainly in applying hundreds of processes to attempt to counter this phenomanon (the belief I (the self who is mortal) wil be immortal...

    The duality thing belongs to the ego..only the ego needs to rationalize things in terms of duality since it needs to label and categorize phenomanons....the true being only is.,.with no duality! Life is life no matter how we try to explain it.
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  13. Me and My Self

    Me and My Self Self-born, Autogamous Unicorn

    1. (bold red) By "this phenomenon" are you referring to previous paragraph "Life" or to what is enclosed between parentheses "the belief I will be immortal"? Or is the latter referred to Scn processes? The sentence is not clear to me ... and thanks in advance.

    2. (bold) Chapeau! :bow:
    A lot of pieces falling into proper place. I had this confusion too regarding Jung's categorizations.
    For me, mistakenly, the Being or Self (or the Thetan in Scn's case) was the same as the Spirit (which would be Life itself in fact). Thus, any attempt at labeling and categorization would be equivalent to EITHER look forward to compare the results with other beings (= egos in this case) and formulate "universal laws" if coincident and coherent, OR simply go "Hubbard's style" ? That would be similar to a school yard where either everyone brings their own toys to show them to their friends and play together, brag about who's got the best car or doll, etc., (game situation) OR the charming bully convinces a group of those kids to play HIS game, stealing their lunchboxes in the way, or exchanging them for cheap sugar bombons wrapped in golden paper, while surreptitiously hiding away all of the kids' own toys (no-game situation as it is an enforced game, with no other choices.)

    (Ok, I got carried away and might be a bit unfair as to the quality of the "bombons". There were profiteroles days too, sometimes. Thing is, not all of them really belonged to him in the first place).

    Summarizing: In any case, if Life represents the Spirit (which is immortal) and recycles everywhere around, while the mortal Self simply dies sending all memories and ego into oblivion ... where does Consciousness (Awareness) fits in this overall scheme? If it is a Spirit/Life attribute, we could be picking those "memories of past lives" from several different, same level, consciousnesses simultaneously, which could explain what is expressed in some concepts of "Present Time" that "everything is happening at the same time" (there is only the present time in reality, but also, literally, all events imaginable simultaneous) a sensation I experienced a few years ago and was pretty much weird (still in process of realigning). I can't see how it can be anything else separated, (though paradoxically each individual life form's energy is scattered and merges with Life/Spirit. So for example, a newborn could get a 20% from dog's awareness, 10% from cabbage's, 60% from human's (from several different same-level former individuals), 5% from rocks and 5% from roaches. So to speak.

    Not sure I've made myself understood but I'll leave it at that by now. Sounds a bit crazy though.
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
  14. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Hi @Me and My Self,
    Sorry, since my english is not good, this sentence was badly constructed; I had problem to express the concept.
    Yes your 1st interpretation of my idea is correct.

    You are very clear to me in those questions you raised and I love those discussions.
    I will attempt my thoughts on the subject which are tinted with the buddhism philosophy, training and meditation practice.

    One thing I like to point first, is that even though we can't grasp, from an intellectual viewpoint, what the spirit is, it is obvious, according to the scientific neurobiology and science, that Ron was totally wrong regarding what he called the ''thetan'' ..Let's say that you clean the board..and make a new fresh start. Can you recall Ron talking about the thetan and saying ''your thetan'' ????? See??? IMHO the only thing Ron knew of was his ego mind, the self..he confused our spiritual nature with either the ego self or the intellectual. What I would say is that we know what it is not..but we don't know what it is. It has been proven scientifically that the brain activity still goes on even after death..which can explains after death experiences and people who can recall what happened just before they came back to life.

    Also..regarding all the questions we have concerning our true nature, it is obviously emerging from the intellect (brain) which tries to grasp those matters..the brain has been given to us to solve physical matters...Now who is aware of being aware ??? It's me..or you..our Self and brain...

    Although, I have the same impression than you regarding parrallel reality, but actually I can't believe in the past live recalls since recall comes from the brain and our brain dies when we die.. (I had a lot of past live recalls in $cientology but I believed I was guided into fabulations). I would think it is possibly more an attempt of the ego mind to collect proof of immortality...It's very tough to surrender to the face we might die and go into the nothing area...and that this life had no other meaning that the life of a tree or an animal...a little piece of a whole :oops:

    One question that I can't find any answer for, is why we were given such an awareness of being aware if it's only to be aware that we will die..and what is the purpose of Human beings in the life plan ??? I can see it for plants, micro-organisms, animals...but to my knowledge, we are not feeding anything else than worms...:oops: However I don't think we are born for a different outcome than plants and animals...

    Meditation practice, under guidance, may help one to get more knowledge of the ego and thoughts and dissociate from those (I am not my thoughts..I have thoughts)...or at least learning to be an observer...but as far as I am concerned I surrendered to the fact that I won't have answers to many questions and since it's only my ego who wants to's not that important as it won't change anything. The best is to really enjoy the present time and each bit of life, since I only have this life and it will be short.

    I now think that all spiritual quests to attain more knowledge are mainly ego quests. There is nothing to know...there is only to be our true nature, when we radiate, emanate, are pure love in a moment when there is no time, no meaning, no goal, no purpose but only to be. The more we let the intellect aside those matter the more we get a new feeling of what we are.

    I am sorry for my poor english but I tried to do my very best.

    I am looking forward to reading more of you about this topic.
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
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  15. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist


    If I understand you correctly, then I agree IF you replace the term "ego" with the term "prefrontal cortex".
  16. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Hi PG,

    According to the recent scientific ( neurobiology) research, you are correct. But according to philosophy, psychology, buddhism and other practices they label it with other names like the ego, psyché, conscious mind , in french we say " la pensée" but as soon as there is an individual thinking, indeed, the prefrontal cortex is at work and this things will die , after we it won't think neither record memories anymore.

    Does it seem logical??? I don't know!

    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
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  17. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    [justify]To @Me and My Self,

    I shall have been more specific regarding my use of the word "phenomenon" as it relates to the buddhist concept of all impermanent compounds, which Will all dissolve..

    A human being is thus a phenomanon.[/justify]
  18. Me and My Self

    Me and My Self Self-born, Autogamous Unicorn

    :rose: How beautiful ... and so comforting.
    Thank you very much for your kind words, interest and thorough reply (I see that you've edited it so will read it again to reply accordingly).

    Having a French background myself (and, worse enough, "spanish-aggravated"), I can totally relate :confused: as to occasional grammar galimatias ... :budhug:

    ( :unsure: We should definitely consider building an all-encompassing trans-philosophical and scientific dictionary of equivalences ... :coffee:)
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  19. Me and My Self

    Me and My Self Self-born, Autogamous Unicorn

    PART 1
    At the risk of starting an endless chain of concomittant references, I'll start by looking for the various Scn definitions of "a thetan".
    Never have I.
    I personally haven't read anything written by LRH inferring "ownership". "You don't HAVE a thetan, you ARE a thetan" was continuously stressed by fellow Scions while at the Orgs (Except for ironical informal uses as "pick up your thetan and start moving particles" among staff members maybe). I haven't listened to enough taped lectures (just now starting to read the transcripts for the PDC), only mostly taped auditing sessions, I couldn't say he didn't infer or use the possessive adjectives or pronouns. I happened though to find an example of such informal use in the Master Glossary (one of the various Scn/Dn dictionaries compiled at which is a part of Ron's Org (ROC), and which I am using here as I don't have my Tech dictionary anymore.

    SLEEVES, ROLLS UP (HER THETAN) ScientoMG (Master Glossary) = (informal) prepares for action. —SHSBC Binder 19 Approved Glossary

    One of the definitions specifies it: "One does not speak of "my thetan" any more than he would speak of "my me." Persons referring to the thetan in such a way as to make the thetan a third party to the body and the person are not only incorrect, they betoken by this a bad state of aberration." —LRH, 8-8008 - Scientology 8-8008 Glossary Final approval c. 3 Mar 1990

    Thus, I have no idea of what exactly you are referring to here, but maybe it was something as the above? Or perhaps (if on non-english written materials) a poorly translated concept in those?

    (I witnessed quite a few in spanish materials at that time, and more recently on a page of the French Scn website. This is BTW one of the reasons why I decided to do the Auditor Levels in English ... the other one becoming a FFS so to rise above all those tedious star-rate checkups and speed up through the Levels.)

    Or did I just misunderstand your question ...:confused:

    I won't cite the whole text of all different versions as they can be found at the link above. Some are a bit over the top, IMHO.

    The living unit
    The source of life and life itself
    That which is aware of being aware - the identity that is the individual.
    It is a discovery of Scientology, a discovery susceptible to the most arduous scientific proofs, "megaphone:that people are not bodies, but that people are living units operating bodies.

    "YOU" or "ME" or " "THAT" we are.
    (ESO que somos (spa) - CE que nous sommes (fra) = neutral)

    This text is found on Scientology Organization Executive Course:
    (snip) ... It comes from the Greek letter Theta (?), which the Greeks used to represent thought or perhaps spirit, to which an n is added to make a noun in the modern style used to create words in engineering. It is also ? n, or "theta to the nth degree," meaning unlimited or vast.
    Right on the front of your skull so you can look at it as a thetan.

    = "THIRD EYE" as "access point"?

    My own "God's Face" experience
    Exodus 33:20-NIV "But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."

    After realizing the above "skull" mention to be a possible reference to the Third Eye, and going back to my earlier frustrated "Lobsang-Rampish" experiments, I decided to go again and see how it might work now, sort of "assessing my awareness and spiritual progress".

    The experience was abruptly interrupted, almost immediately, when I realized I am not yet ready to put Life to the test" ... but I DID perceive the connection.
    Scaredy cat, I am.
    Oh well. At least this time I got a glimpse. Enough to confirm it by now.

    —9th ACC Volume 2 Approved Glossary definition bears the same text, without the skull reference, but adding this before it:
    (snip) ... The term was coined to eliminate any possible confusion with older, invalid concepts. (snip)

    Yep. Wipe all the other equivalent, previously valid and fairly understood concepts and arrogate the "discovery" of an already, broadly accepted, significance. Way to go, Hubs! :bully:

    I have this issue in French, with Spirit and Mind both being translated as "l'Esprit" ... (though Mind also gets interpreted as "Le Mental", which would be "Mind contents" - or anything related to the Mind, or maybe more properly EVERYTHING mentally devised anywhere).

    Now we also have "SOUL" thrown into the apparent confusion picture.

    "Soul is defined as one person, or is the spirit and essence of a person. An example of your soul is the part of you that makes you who you are and that will live on after your death. An example of soul is the part of you that will go to heaven and be immortal, according to the the teachings of certain religions."

    "The current consensus of modern science is that there is no evidence to support the existence of the soul when traditionally defined as the spiritual breath of the body. In metaphysics, the concept of "Soul" may be equated with that of "Mind" in order to refer to the consciousness and intellect of the individual."

    Thus, Self, Spirit and Soul = same things.
    Perceived as three different attributes.
    Weird. ("Divide and conquer").

    Buddhism "principle of impermanence"
    "a human being has no permanent self"
    "no-self" or "no soul" – the words "I" or "me" do not refer to any fixed thing. They are simply convenient terms that allow us to refer to an ever-changing entity.

    More quotes:
    "Other Christians understand the soul as the life, and believe that the dead are sleeping (Christian conditionalism). This belief is traditionally accompanied by the belief that the unrighteous soul will cease to exist instead of suffering eternally (annihilationism). Believers will inherit eternal life either in Heaven, or in a Kingdom of God on earth, and enjoy eternal fellowship with God."

    I think both Heaven and Hell are "down here".

    In "Life" by Henry Epps (Google Books, lost the exact link as I found it on another page)
    "Kabbalah and other mystic traditions go into greater detail into the nature of the soul. Kabbalah separates the soul into five elements, corresponding to the five worlds:

    Nefesh, related to natural instinct.
    Ruach, related to emotion and morality.
    Neshamah, related to intellect and the awareness of God.
    Chayah, considered a part of God, as it were.
    Yechidah. This aspect is essentially one with God."

    The Tree of Life is, to me, and since I started to grasp its concepts thanks to a dear friend and Kabbalah teacher, a beautiful compound and detailed representation of all things Creation in an endless "give - take - give back" cycle, with cycles within cycles, in both directions (Life to Man - Man to Life). Seemingly apparent duality, but outermost cycle is the whole.

    Now, as LRH mentions "math symbol", I'm fiddling with the maths definitions and tweaking a bit to fit here.

    Some definitions found in Quora":

    "The symbol ? is often used in mathematics like other Greek letters. It is introduced as a degree variable, usually taught with geometry or trigonometry. This takes place between such things as points, lines, surfaces, or figures, shapes, or polygons, with degrees as a characteristic or attribute of these things. You can even say that the degree with another characteristic or attribute, can determine what the thing is going to be. Later on, we can also study ? as a variable as in ordinary algebra, linear algebra, or even abstract algebra where we have some sense. Though the place it stands out for me now, is use of ? (...) as the parameter for likelihood. The term likelihood is of the same sense as chance or probability."

    "Most often, ? is a variable that stands for an angle in geometry, "

    "The symbol ? usually represents the angular position of a vector."

    "This symbol broadly represents unknown values in algebraic mathematics and is most commonly used to represent an unknown angle."

    ANGLE (noun)
    1. the space (usually measured in degrees) between two intersecting lines or surfaces at or close to the point where they meet.

    THAT we are, intersecting LIFE as a whole.

    2. a particular way of approaching or considering an issue or problem.

    THETA(N) AS JUST A POINT OF VIEW AMONG OTHERS (literally and philosophically)

    1. direct or incline at an angle.

    A "new SLANT of life"? Clever the Hubby was.

    Thetan = individual's connection to God's Consciousness
    The Eye of God upon His Creation through His creations
    The Witness or the Observer, all-powerful in God's hands.
    The Primal Software for our Hardware
    The (wordly) Face of God (which radiates upon others by reflection)

    Can only be accessed and if in complete alignment with "God's plans", so to speak.

    (had to separate in parts as the board keeps messing the post quotes)
    (off to part 2 ...)
  20. Me and My Self

    Me and My Self Self-born, Autogamous Unicorn

    ... PART 2

    My take on "being exterior" = most probably our own fertile imagination, as HelluvaHoax hinted.
    Triggered by an unusual state of very expanded awareness, previously unknown, thus looking for an appropriate tag among other things that one may have already witnessed or imagined (usually in/through fairy tales, movies, own dreams, etc.)

    In "Doing without doing" I've often experienced diverse degrees of that sensation, as the material objects become sort of transparent.
    I may describe some of them later on. This state only has manifested when above active interest emotional state, increasing and perfecting the more I rise to enthusiastic and creative states.

    It would seem TIME slows down and all gets done effortlessly, while focused and handling material world as secondary to the creative interests but fully aware. All gets done in sync as usual, but the primary focus is fully merged with the creative endeavor. Nothing gets omitted or forgotten, although sometimes reordered to fit along with the purpose at hand. All answers come in time, all solutions present themselves when needed.

    Suffering is painful because the ego attaches a personal meaning into it instead of just SEEING what is really happening = I realized this a while ago in the middle of a kidney stone episode - renal colic). There were no pain killers around and I was alone, so I started to try to understand what was happening, and SAW the stuck stone slowly advancing through the kidney tubes to its final destination. It was an interiorization I guess this time, but as soon as I got the picture all the awful pain disappeared, while my body still was feeling its advance, until it got to the bladder, when it stopped.

    More quotes ...
    THAT WHICH IS (MRIA - John Roger)
    "In part two of this amazing seminar, another questioner asks, “What is asking in the name of Christ?” And J-R’s response is all-encompassing, “If we could say “in the name of loving’ or if we could say ‘in the name of oxygen’ or ‘in the name of sunlight,’ I think there would be nothing but absolute unity amongst all of us. But I don’t think the planet is set up far that. I think the planet is set up for inquiry into things.” He continues, “But I think if we were to take the word ‘Christian’ and take away the behavioral aspects of the past and take away Judaism, we would probably have God living and walking amongst us in a radiant form and maybe that would be all of us and we would all feel the vibration of all that. That to me just gives me goose bumps. Just to even consider that possibility.”"

    I think:
    We ARE (albeit just a relative hint of) Awareness ...

    :rose:THE ABOVE IS A WINNER :rose:

    Indeed there would be no further argument to place in front of such a beautiful, essential summary of "what"(THAT) we are.

    WHAT we are = physical universe
    WHO (or, again, WHAT) we (think we) are = ego/mind or
    "THAT" we are = unknown thus un-named (= Tao)
    Wu-Wei = the art of just BEING ("Action of Non-Action")
    (More of it here:

    My take:
    God/Life/Universe never dies.
    La pensée = thought (individual realizations)
    Pro-survival thoughts tend to persist (in the whole scheme) = in our limited portion of the all-encompassing Universe (= teenie-weenie earth) those would be a compound of all the individual realizations voiced out by philosophers, scholars, etc. plus the non-voiced one of even the smallest being capable of consciousness/awareness at any level.
    Anti-survival thoughts would tend to fade away.
    Both varieties gravitate towards their respective kin, forming thought-groups/thought forms that tend to persist beyond their individual "creators".
    God/Life/Universe is always balanced so to achieve survival.
    The apparent dichotomy (duality) allows for its dynamics (both seen as 1. the branch of mechanics concerned with the motion of bodies under the action of forces.
    2. the forces or properties which stimulate growth, development, or change within a system or process.)

    At least until an hypothetical "big crunch" would come about, IF at a given point its overall critical mass weighs heavier on the anti-survival side. Which would then just be a "change within a system or process".

    Our thoughts are just a tiny drop in the vast ocean.
    But every drop counts.
    And evolving / being true to our awareness hopefully can make a difference ... or not.
    We just get to choose a side to play the game ... or rest in an exhilarating communion with the whole of Creation.

    Did I say game? Off to fun stuff! (finally)

    "Je panse ... donc j'essuie" (Alphonse Allais's paraphrase)

    Fooking Descartes ... sigh ... seriously considering to change my alias to "Me and my OCD", LOL.

    The above images are under a Creative Commons BY-SA license
    and shared by the artist Simon « Gee » Giraudot - owner of

    (In french, "je panse donc j'essuie" would literally translate as "I make a bandage thus I wipe"
    Also, the inverse phrase can be true, translated as "I do not think, thus I follow"
    Both would sound and be written equal as to the second action:
    Je pense, donc je suis
    Je ne pense pas, donc je suis)

    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019