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Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by thefiredragon, Jun 5, 2013.

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  1. TG1

    TG1 Angelic Poster

    And there's "K. Moxon" printed in the upper left-hand corner of the receipt.

    Clear as day.

  2. Ogsonofgroo

    Ogsonofgroo Crusader

    Thanks, ya beat me to that one. Toxic Moxin has his little sausages in the pie, why so not surprised?
  3. exccc

    exccc Patron with Honors

    I don't understand where this hotel bill photo came from. Surely, by that point, OSA had confiscated all the cameras, etc.?
  4. In present time

    In present time Gold Meritorious Patron

    that is a very smart question. i didnt even think of it, but yeah... it looks to be a photo of the hotel bill. seems unlikely after all that, hmmmm.
  5. thefiredragon

    thefiredragon Patron Meritorious

    It's easy. I have an original bill.Its 5 pages long, for everyday. In the last day of staying in hotel, they were going to change my room and put me to another room but then decided to keep me in the same room. So, housekeeper or somebody from front desk put this bill under my door. I grabbed it and hid in my purse. I took a pic of the last page when I got back to Florida.The last page is important because it shows arrival and departing date
    I guess that was a flap on their part, they never knew I have the bill.
  6. In present time

    In present time Gold Meritorious Patron

    you are the damn russians lrh worried about all the time :dancer:. i think what you have done shows courage, and moxy that the ot's only dream of.
  7. thefiredragon

    thefiredragon Patron Meritorious

    oh, I also have this thingy they had me to sign in sea org
    #9 really frieaked me out.

    First, they were trying to sign this before EPF, when i just got recruited. I read #9 and decided I won't sign it.
    I put that page in my purse and signed a lot of other papers. They did not noticed that one paper was missing.
    Then , later, somebody went thru my file before fitness board and find out the page is missing and had me to sign it.

    Now I wonder if I still can post any of my pics and videos I took BEFORE I have signed this doc.

    It says ".........In executing this Covenant , I'm knowlingly and volunteerly waving what otherwise might be construed as rights under California and Unites States Constitution or the constitutions or laws of any other state or nation specificaly my first amendment right to free speech........
  8. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    I assume you read that too. It seems by posting here, you are breaking a contract, and are liable. It might be best to take this activity elsewhere, or as you agreed by contract, nowhere. You should also ask your attorney what PoA is before you get into more trouble than you can manage ... again.

  9. TG1

    TG1 Angelic Poster

    I would seriously LOVE to get a legal analysis of this agreement an SO member makes to waive his/her legal rights.

    I think when one signs up as a member of the US military one does waive several of their legal rights.

    But that seems like a totally different deal than signing up with a religious order.

  10. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    Yeah, I don't know the limits of bad faith agreements, but I would suggest she stop what she's doing and get some legal advice. This can only make a bad situation worse, by hastily breaking a contract.
  11. uncover

    uncover Gold Meritorious Patron

    I am wondering if signing away ones constitutional rights isnĀ“t contra bonos mores and therefore null and void.
  12. thefiredragon

    thefiredragon Patron Meritorious

    yea,some pics have leaked, but I never not posted anything to piss them off,(yet) they don't want to see online a list of SPs of every country and every state, lists of scns on a good standing and their adresses, lists of freeloaders, list of public who owens them money, some BPs of membership oficer to help people to get a loan for next membership status, some videos and other staff.

    Their main concern is, disconnection -related docs ;)

    So far, I don't even want to know where is it all, but the things I ve been posting, like "no socializing with wogs" rules and things like that is not really a big deal.

    Sea org do whatever they can to make sure that no reporter will sneak in and take pics of the dorms, because they have 9-12 bunk beds in each room, so they have to keep windows covered, and just a tiny bit open at the bottom, to let air in, because they dont have I/Cs.

    But OSA act like they dont care about videos. Rick Moxon said "so what ?Its a religion order! Who cares! If there were 12 monks in one room, nobody would care!"

    So, so far I don't really post anything out there and not planning to.
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
  13. In present time

    In present time Gold Meritorious Patron

    seriously? they are asking her to waive her constitutional rights? that's bullshit.
    i know several radio hosts, that claim to be big guys, and NONE of them have the balls to touch this. outrageous.
    one shouldnt need to have $20,000 cash on hand for a gladiator, errr i mean attorney, to guarantee rights that you claim justifies a genocide of an entire culture.
    or is your constitution just a goddamn piece of paper as george bush allegedly stated?
    esmb. most annoying and worthwhile forum ever, grrrr.
  14. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    I was just pointing out that you seem to be making a huge mistake. What they "act like they don't care about" and what you contracted are two different things. One of them you can be sued for. Ugh, I should put you on ignore and spare myself watching trainwreck #2.
  15. TG1

    TG1 Angelic Poster

    As it turns out, one can waive one's legal rights:

    "The term waiver is used in many legal contexts. A waiver is essentially a unilateral act of one person that results in the surrender of a legal right. The legal right may be constitutional, statutory, or contractual, but the key issue for a court reviewing a claim of waiver is whether the person voluntarily gave up the right. If voluntarily surrendered, it is considered an express waiver." At

    A big thing I think that's missing from these documents is any serious attempt to clarify what the long-term implications on one's life are of waiving in such a general, broad-brush way one's unnamed, unexplained legal rights.

    More specifically, how do the various rights one waives and the Church's massive and complicated policies (which one swears to follow and uphold) INTERACT to result in the Sea Org member losing other unanticipated rights to live their lives as they would like, which the ordinary person would not appreciate could result from those kinds of interactions.


  16. In present time

    In present time Gold Meritorious Patron

    well karen is posting this! so it is pretty obvious that what you say is true, why? because it is true. stupid government is not doing their job. if everything was kosher then it wouldnt be a problem would it?
  17. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    I was just saying that IMO, she's blowing it, and should get an attorney. That said, I have a burning need to put her on ignore and avoid this topic and situation. Sorry if I irked you.
  18. In present time

    In present time Gold Meritorious Patron

    no. anony... i didnt mean to pick on you, it's just the situation that is frustrating. sorry.
  19. exccc

    exccc Patron with Honors

    If that is the case, that is very good for you.

    That is supporting evidence that you were held against your will. You should be sure your lawyer has that paper.

    Debbie Cook probably broke the law when she used a Church address list to send out her email. OSA tried to nail her to the wall with that and out came devastating testimony of her being held against her will and much more.

    You probably broke the law by smuggling out photos/data, too. The last thing the Church needs is more damming testimony about holding people against their will.

    That, more than anything else, is probably what will keep them off your back.

    As far as signing away the right to free speech, LOL it's a joke. From now on all ex-SO members can never criticize the church? Never join any group against the CoS? I'd LOVE to see them try to enforce that one.

    Someone talked about contract law. Yes, a non-disclosure agreement is a contract about a very SPECIFIC thing. "We're now going to tell you X. By agreeing to view X, you promise to not disclose X to anyone or incur a financial penalty. That can hold up in court.

    That is a LOT different than, "I will never voluntarily assist, aid or consult" .. any group hostile to Scn. Which is a joke on it's face. I'm sure any lawyer will tell you it's not worth the paper it's printed on.
  20. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    I admit to being ignorant of legal issues, especially concerning gagging orders. Where a law is being breached surely it is legal to witness that to a the police, lawyers, judge and jury? That being the case the press would be free to print what was witnessed. But if one was naughty and and went to a journalist what could the church do? Lets say they were dumb enough to take someone to court for exposing their criminal behaviour, if the person was found guilty and had no money how could they get paid? they would have nothing to gain but bad PR. It would be like a murderer suing his mother for going to police when she dug up a body in the garden.
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