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Question for Veda

Feral

Rogue male
Re: Helluva Hoax

Here is another person "Cherub"
who posted this on Tony Ortega's web site
which kind of confirms what you and I are saying ~~


“Tony — less then about 5% of x-SCN get involved in talking about current church stuff.

Most of us have quietly and intensely moved on with on with our lives. I was a major exec in the 60s-70s but when I silently left in 1998, I didnt have the usual and predominant family problem (most of my family is/was in SCN) because I adroitly avoided a declare — despite (maybe in spite) of being next to some of the most sensitive info. I just became intentionally invisible.

But I want to congratulate you on these series of articles, how much it means I am sure to the thousands and thousands of us who are quietly leading other lives — it brings peace to many. And has our heartfelt thanks and gratitude that finally someone in the major press arena has decided to shine a spotlight on the criminality of your subject.

In the “old” days of the late 60s-70s you and your offices would have been fried from many different angles, both physical and legal. It is a testament to the fatigue and vanishing purse of that organization, which cannot any longer attack everything in sight which it considers its enemy, having buried itself in the miasma of its own fear and loathing :-) And believe me, all those who speak out against the villainy are each and every one, heroes to thousands.

Thank God for the Internet and people like yourself — else none of us would have been able to compare notes and realize WE were not the insane ones — LOL”

What a great comment, I like this Cherub!
 

Veda

Sponsor
SCIENTOLOGY IS LESS NUTS NOW THAT HUBBARD IS GONE

What a great comment, I like this Cherub!

Cherub seems to be saying that Scientology is less of a public menace now that Hubbard is gone. That message would probably be poorly received by those who dream of a return to the good old days, when Scientology was On-Source, and Ron was at the helm.

Reviewing the Michael Fairman piece on the 'Moving on up' blog, I can see why Swift was upset with my "clown car" comment. Those YouTube videos, as entertaining as they are, are beginning to backfire, not just on the Cof$ but on Marty&Independent Scientology. It goes against the preferred meme of Marty the martyr taking the hits for all of us.

Quoting Fairman:

"I found out this week first hand that this is a very serious and dangerous business. Perhaps more serious and dangerous than we know."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL4FDDvug6s
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Scientology is Hubbard's plan for the takeover of the world. That's what 'Clearing the Planet' really means. The entire literature and 'Technology' of Scientology leads to slavery. The slave labour RPF was established under Hubbard's rule, as was Fair Game. They are entirely congruent with his stated goals. Those who do not wish to come onboard would be dealt with by R2-45, or handled or disposed of by other means.

Not a Religion.
Not a therapy.

Political.

north-korea.jpg
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Re: SCIENTOLOGY IS LESS NUTS NOW THAT HUBBARD IS GONE

Snip:

Reviewing the Michael Fairman piece on the 'Moving on up' blog, I can see why Swift was upset with my "clown car" comment. Those YouTube videos, as entertaining as they are, are beginning to backfire, not just on the Cof$ but on Marty&Independent Scientology. It goes against the preferred meme of Marty the martyr taking the hits for all of us.

Quoting Fairman:

"I found out this week first hand that this is a very serious and dangerous business. Perhaps more serious and dangerous than we know."

What happens between Marty and Miscavige's robots looks more like Bullbaiting and teasing than the intention to cause real lasting personal damage, that we have always seen with the application of the Scientology practice of Fair Game. It brings to mind the behaviour of certain ruminent animals that have impressive looking horns, that grow in such a way as to make it nearly impossible for them to actually hurt each other with them.
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
pronunciamento |prōˌnənsēəˈmentō|
noun ( pl. -tos)
(esp. in Spain and Spanish-speaking countries) a political manifesto or proclamation.
ORIGIN Spanish pronunciamiento, from pronunciar ‘pronounce.’

It is English.

My point was only that, in the course of our children's childhoods, we exposed them to many things ranging from dance and music to rock climbing, skiing, snow boarding, surfing, horses, scuba, the idea marketplace. All of our kids know I did drugs and hung with some well known drug users and / or rock bands.

Education and honesty go a lot farther than mere keeping ideas away from them.

When I was a kid, and there was wine at the table, I was always poured a glass. I didn't grow up to be an alcoholic. There wasn't ever a "can't have " placed on booze. As a high school student, a friend and I made 5 gallons of beer in the garden shed with my parents knowledge. We sold it, we didn't drink it.

SHIELDING KIDS FROM DANGERS IS PROBABLY BETTER DONE BY EDUCATING THEM.

The above sentence is my whole point.

Nothing wrong with that.

My point is: You're trying to establish that "something" in $cientology "works". Of course it does. The Hubturd had to sprinkle quite a few working common-sense wisdoms over his "teachings", or nobody would have bought his crap. I hope you also taught your kids how to dig up the real sources of the stuff that worked.
 

Nicole

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: SCIENTOLOGY IS LESS NUTS NOW THAT HUBBARD IS GONE

What happens between Marty and Miscavige's robots looks more like Bullbaiting and teasing than the intention to cause real lasting personal damage, that we have always seen with the application of the Scientology practice of Fair Game. It brings to mind the behaviour of certain ruminent animals that have impressive looking horns, that grow in such a way as to make it nearly impossible for them to actually hurt each other with them.

For me it looks more like showing their alpha male status to their flock.

The big bull Miscavige against the new rival bull Marty! The big bull Miscavige sends his Supermen out to show the new rival bull how many Supermen he has... The new rival bull Superman shows how cool and easy he is. ...and the flocks give applause...
 
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Re: SCIENTOLOGY IS LESS NUTS NOW THAT HUBBARD IS GONE

For me it looks more like showing their alpha male status to their flock.

The big bull Miscavige against the new rival bull Marty! The big bull Miscavige sends his Supermen out to show the new rival bull how many Supermen he has... The new rival bull Superman shows how cool and easy he is. ...and the flocks give applause...


Not to derail, but I have the TRUE STORY OF TOMMY DAVIS, (another little Bull(shitter).

Question for viewers: who is the bee?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGTVRbpAuRo
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
And to Karen De La Carriere... What made it alright in your mind to try to get me to sign a Billion year Contract to go "work on LRH lines" when I was 9 years old? You came to my school to recruit me - Apple School 1979. You followed up with me at Celebrity Centre to get me to sign that contract. And I did. And my mom told you to FUCK OFF. You were an ADULT then. Why was that right? Enlighten me. Because those references you showed me, and I can still name them off, are what still strikes me as complete brain washing bunk. But to a 9 year old, quite fascinating. You made me feel like Luke Skywalker. How do you still reprresent LRH?

Hey John may you please be so kind an tell me in a PM which references Karen showed you to enlighten you nine years young.

Thank you
Love
Markus
 

bts2free

Patron with Honors
Hey Marcus,

Of course I was shown the normal references like "Many are called and few are chosen," quotes from KSW and all of that. But the one reference that really "impinged" on me was one called "10 Years." It wasn't a policy letter or an HCOB, but more like a dispatch or an article that LRH wrote. I don't know if it was ever actually published, but all of the SO recruiters back in the late 70's and early 80's had it in their recruitment packs. In that write up, LRH said that the world would soon no longer be able to sustain life and that we had only about 10 years left. Does anyone else remember the "10 years" reference? It was used many, many times to guilt trip people and push those "help buttons."

I remember specifically that a Sea Org member at Celebrity Centre named Daphne (same exact time period of Karen's interviews) showed me that reference in one of my many SO recruitment interviews back then, and it was put in front of me to read many other times as well. So, I can't say that Karen specifically showed me that one. The main point being that most Sea Org recruitment interviews are done to guilt someone into doing the "the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics," and of course, that's to join the Sea Org. If you don't join the Sea Org and you are a Scientologist who is qualified to do so, you are considered to be "out ethics," "have other fish to fry," "PTS to the middle class" etc...

Karen was not the only one trying to recruit me. There must have been about 5 other SO members trying to tag team me to sign the billion year contract. It got to the point where I would avoid certain areas at the org and sneak out the back ways to avoid these interviews.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Hey Marcus,

Of course I was shown the normal references like "Many are called and few are chosen," quotes from KSW and all of that. But the one reference that really "impinged" on me was one called "10 Years." It wasn't a policy letter or an HCOB, but more like a dispatch or an article that LRH wrote. I don't know if it was ever actually published, but all of the SO recruiters back in the late 70's and early 80's had it in their recruitment packs. In that write up, LRH said that the world would soon no longer be able to sustain life and that we had only about 10 years left. Does anyone else remember the "10 years" reference? It was used many, many times to guilt trip people and push those "help buttons."

I remember specifically that a Sea Org member at Celebrity Centre named Daphne (same exact time period of Karen's interviews) showed me that reference in one of my many SO recruitment interviews back then, and it was put in front of me to read many other times as well. So, I can't say that Karen specifically showed me that one. The main point being that most Sea Org recruitment interviews are done to guilt someone into doing the "the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics," and of course, that's to join the Sea Org. If you don't join the Sea Org and you are a Scientologist who is qualified to do so, you are considered to be "out ethics," "have other fish to fry," "PTS to the middle class" etc...

Karen was not the only one trying to recruit me. There must have been about 5 other SO members trying to tag team me to sign the billion year contract. It got to the point where I would avoid certain areas at the org and sneak out the back ways to avoid these interviews.

There was an issue called "Five Years", taken from Auditor Mag # 9. This was in EVERY "hard sell" pack on Flag for every recruiter and reg back in the 1980s and 1990s, and was OFTEN pulled out to "close people".

It is typical Hubbard "doom and gloom", containing gross exaggerations of actualities.

I was shown this "LRH truth" before I had any children. My daughter is now 30 years, yet Hubbard STATED IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that my kids wouldn 't live to be 16 years old.

It truly amazes me, because Scientology is FILLED with nonsense like this. What type of nonsense? Nonsense where Hubbard makes very clear and exact claims, statements and assertions, yet actual reality, events and situations (including history) show what he says NOT to "be true". Yet, despite "facts" these the moronic true believers IGNORE all such "data", and continue along rah-rah-rahing into their local Churches of Scientology. I have more and more come to the conclusion that it takes a VERY SPECIAL TYPE OF STUPID to remain affiltated with and supportive of the Church of Scientology and/or Hubbard. There is just so MUCH of what he claims and asserts (that the dummy Scientologists agree with) that is NOT supported in ANY way by actual situations, events, available observations and history. This happens ONLY when a person chooses to 1) SHUT OFF THE INFLOW OF (true negative) INFORMATION about Scientology, and instead to 2) forward and continue to create an imaginative illusion based on Hubbard's many statements, claims and assertions.

The earliest copyright date on the "reference" is 1967. Though it may have been "released" earlier.

I have attached a copy.
 

Attachments

  • five_years.jpg
    five_years.jpg
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Feral

Rogue male
Wow, that's a great reference! Funny how it looks completely different when you're no longer in the cult. Is it just me or does it look like a pure piece of manipulation?

All through my time in Scientology that ref was quoted, but only in part and never with the date, funny that it obviously impressed those it was used on as a recruitment aid so powerfully that they used it on others but failed to notice it was predicated on the certain demise of the whole world which had most mysteriously failed to happen.

So now when I think of cult members using that reference to alter and control the thoughts, plans and actions of people, especially young people my blood boils.

Cults are evil, manipulative usurpers of life.
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hey Marcus,

Of course I was shown the normal references like "Many are called and few are chosen," quotes from KSW and all of that. But the one reference that really "impinged" on me was one called "10 Years." It wasn't a policy letter or an HCOB, but more like a dispatch or an article that LRH wrote. I don't know if it was ever actually published, but all of the SO recruiters back in the late 70's and early 80's had it in their recruitment packs. In that write up, LRH said that the world would soon no longer be able to sustain life and that we had only about 10 years left. Does anyone else remember the "10 years" reference? It was used many, many times to guilt trip people and push those "help buttons."

I remember specifically that a Sea Org member at Celebrity Centre named Daphne (same exact time period of Karen's interviews) showed me that reference in one of my many SO recruitment interviews back then, and it was put in front of me to read many other times as well. So, I can't say that Karen specifically showed me that one. The main point being that most Sea Org recruitment interviews are done to guilt someone into doing the "the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics," and of course, that's to join the Sea Org. If you don't join the Sea Org and you are a Scientologist who is qualified to do so, you are considered to be "out ethics," "have other fish to fry," "PTS to the middle class" etc...

Karen was not the only one trying to recruit me. There must have been about 5 other SO members trying to tag team me to sign the billion year contract. It got to the point where I would avoid certain areas at the org and sneak out the back ways to avoid these interviews.

They did not use "Many are called and few are chosen" because they managed this first step by love bombing me, then after I was not willing to sign they showed me KSW but they guilted me into signing the billion years contract by showing me Hubbards "five years command" and pushing the PTS to middle class button. I was 18 years young then. It was in early 1983 and it happened at AOSH EU in Copenhagen. Only two recruiters managed to force me to sign but it took them three nights (23.00 till 4 in the morning) until I gave up and signed completely exhausted. This will be the next story for me to tell in my thread about my family in Scientology it is already written down in German - I just have started to translate it - maybe I will be finished tomorrow.

Isn't it great to be a NCG person John :happydance: we are immune to Hubbards mindfuck influenca now :yes:

I'm so very glad I met you - maybe I will manage to do a journey to the US next year in order to visit some new found friends - do you think it would be possible for me to meet you then?

Love
Markus
 
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Re: Lame and Tame

Outstanding analysis of the CoS's curiously absent bite, despite its bark!

Curiously, your brilliant observations about the declining trend in Fair Game lawsuits and "hot air" chest-beating antics are very closely related to a post on another thread I recently started on "Operating Thugans". I will get back to finishing that post in another day or two, but it (oddly) has something to do with the subject of the CoS's Kamikaze tactics.

Back to your terrific post...

There is one factor that might account for the "Silence of the Suits" these past years and why Scientology is not sueing the hell out of everyone and everything the way they used to. Here's why....

COB FEAR FACTOR. I propose the more than likely notion that David Miscavige is absolutely terrified of litigation. And, in particular, being deposed under oath and having to testify in open court. For a white collar criminal (albeit a faux priest collar) this is the worst nightmare. A man like Miscavige who has lied for decades to virtually everyone at every level (including his own organizations, parishioners and "trusted loyal officers") could hardly hope to not open Pandora's Box if he was sworn in to tell the truth under penalty of perjury.

This fully explains the "why doesn't COB really Fair Game Marty and the Indies". It has nothing to do with preferential treatment. It has everything to do with DM's obsessive self-preservation at any cost.

And there is little doubt that Miscavige would pull the trigger on getting Marty institutionalized, driven insane or sent to prison on bogus charges IF HE COULD FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT WITHOUT IT COMING BACK TO HAUNT HIM PERSONALLY.

All this seems (and is) quite mad when considering that Scientologists give Miscavige standing ovations and thank him for their freedom and eternity in all those coerced success stories.

BINGO! Hoaxy, you got it! :) You may not know that active ongoing efforts have been made in California and elsewhere to depose COB for some time now. I think this is the real reason they plan moving INT Base out of the country and into the north woods above Toronto. (Or some other hidey place!)

The COB fear factor (fear of deposition, indictment and prosecution here) turns out to be a great motivator! :thumbsup:

I think Squirrel Busters is a mere distraction from the real evil works done by COS. :yes:
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Yes, it is time for them to take INT out of the US.

While they are at it they might as well take all their US bases.

But, it is rapidly approaching where they only "might" be welcome in the more backwards South American countries.

Ah, the worlds fastest growing religion in the world... will now fit on a garbage scow headed south?
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Yes, it is time for them to take INT out of the US.

While they are at it they might as well take all their US bases.

But, it is rapidly approaching where they only "might" be welcome in the more backwards South American countries.

Ah, the worlds fastest growing religion in the world... will now fit on a garbage scow headed south?

I sometimes wonder if Miscavige is running Scientology into the ground deliberately, so he can do as you say. So he can move out of the US, and be something like a king in some little country where people are (even) more easily bought. He must be aware of how his 'church' is really doing, and that it will never, ever be anything like the force that it once was.
 

bts2free

Patron with Honors
There was an issue called "Five Years", taken from Auditor Mag # 9. This was in EVERY "hard sell" pack on Flag for every recruiter and reg back in the 1980s and 1990s, and was OFTEN pulled out to "close people".

It is typical Hubbard "doom and gloom", containing gross exaggerations of actualities.

I was shown this "LRH truth" before I had any children. My daughter is now 30 years, yet Hubbard STATED IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that my kids wouldn 't live to be 16 years old.

It truly amazes me, because Scientology is FILLED with nonsense like this. What type of nonsense? Nonsense where Hubbard makes very clear and exact claims, statements and assertions, yet actual reality, events and situations (including history) show what he says NOT to "be true". Yet, despite "facts" these the moronic true believers IGNORE all such "data", and continue along rah-rah-rahing into their local Churches of Scientology. I have more and more come to the conclusion that it takes a VERY SPECIAL TYPE OF STUPID to remain affiltated with and supportive of the Church of Scientology and/or Hubbard. There is just so MUCH of what he claims and asserts (that the dummy Scientologists agree with) that is NOT supported in ANY way by actual situations, events, available observations and history. This happens ONLY when a person chooses to 1) SHUT OFF THE INFLOW OF (true negative) INFORMATION about Scientology, and instead to 2) forward and continue to create an imaginative illusion based on Hubbard's many statements, claims and assertions.

The earliest copyright date on the "reference" is 1967. Though it may have been "released" earlier.

I have attached a copy.

DUDE! That's the one. It was "Five Years" not 10. I was made to read THAT piece of shit lie, OVER and OVER again when I was 9 YEARS OLD. Let that FACT sit in, and then tell me what you think about Hubbard and the "adults" that pushed this shit on the children of Scientologists.
 

bts2free

Patron with Honors
They did not use "Many are called and few are chosen" because they managed this first step by love bombing me, then after I was not willing to sign they showed me KSW but they guilted me into signing the billion years contract by showing me Hubbards "five years command" and pushing the PTS to middle class button. I was 18 years young then. It was in early 1983 and it happened at AOSH EU in Copenhagen. Only two recruiters managed to force me to sign but it took them three nights (23.00 till 4 in the morning) until I gave up and signed completely exhausted. This will be the next story for me to tell in my thread about my family in Scientology it is already written down in German - I just have started to translate it - maybe I will be finished tomorrow.

Isn't it great to be a NCG person John :happydance: we are immune to Hubbards mindfuck influenca now :yes:

I'm so very glad I met you - maybe I will manage to do a journey to the US next year in order to visit some new found friends - do you think it would be possible for me to meet you then?

Love
Markus

Wow Marcus, what a story man. You will definitely have to tell your story on that. Amazing that the "five years" issue was pushed so hard on people. No wonder that issue was apparently taken out of circulation at some time, because it really does show how crazy, delusional and inaccurate LRH was about his claims.

I'm glad I met you too Markus. Let me know when you're coming to the US for sure.
 

Hatshepsut

Crusader
Wow, that's a great reference! Funny how it looks completely different when you're no longer in the cult. Is it just me or does it look like a pure piece of manipulation?

All through my time in Scientology that ref was quoted, but only in part and never with the date, funny that it obviously impressed those it was used on as a recruitment aid so powerfully that they used it on others but failed to notice it was predicated on the certain demise of the whole world which had most mysteriously failed to happen.

So now when I think of cult members using that reference to alter and control the thoughts, plans and actions of people, especially young people my blood boils.

Cults are evil, manipulative usurpers of life.

I was reading The War In Heaven again yesterday. It was sort of a backup to my research into superclusters and how they might evolve, travel.... in space. I'm guessing that discarnate beings are twice as likely to be forming composite masses than individuals who have embarked upon a full lifetime. In Scientology one is mostly assuming the viewpoint that he is not really in a body. I wonder if this unnoticeably softens up a person in some way ...making him easier fodder for a larger, devouring, hungry, god pretender . This thing which demands a person throw their anchors into it.
 
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bts2free

Patron with Honors
There was an issue called "Five Years", taken from Auditor Mag # 9. This was in EVERY "hard sell" pack on Flag for every recruiter and reg back in the 1980s and 1990s, and was OFTEN pulled out to "close people".

It is typical Hubbard "doom and gloom", containing gross exaggerations of actualities.

I was shown this "LRH truth" before I had any children. My daughter is now 30 years, yet Hubbard STATED IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that my kids wouldn 't live to be 16 years old.

It truly amazes me, because Scientology is FILLED with nonsense like this. What type of nonsense? Nonsense where Hubbard makes very clear and exact claims, statements and assertions, yet actual reality, events and situations (including history) show what he says NOT to "be true". Yet, despite "facts" these the moronic true believers IGNORE all such "data", and continue along rah-rah-rahing into their local Churches of Scientology. I have more and more come to the conclusion that it takes a VERY SPECIAL TYPE OF STUPID to remain affiltated with and supportive of the Church of Scientology and/or Hubbard. There is just so MUCH of what he claims and asserts (that the dummy Scientologists agree with) that is NOT supported in ANY way by actual situations, events, available observations and history. This happens ONLY when a person chooses to 1) SHUT OFF THE INFLOW OF (true negative) INFORMATION about Scientology, and instead to 2) forward and continue to create an imaginative illusion based on Hubbard's many statements, claims and assertions.

The earliest copyright date on the "reference" is 1967. Though it may have been "released" earlier.

I have attached a copy.

Veda, I find it interesting that the attached document has had only 25 views apparently... Is there any way that you could post this document other than an attachment so that L. Con's delusions (especially this one) can be more "in yer face?" Otherwise, people still sitting in the "all was good in the hood in those days" perspective will likely not go "click."

Sorry, I meant Gadfly.
 
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