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Question on Natural Clear

Discussion in 'Scientology Technology' started by msureof, Sep 23, 2009.

  1. msureof

    msureof New Member

    Hey all ex Auditors, I was on staff at SF mission back in 1978. Been out some 29 plus years. I was getting auditing and working my way up to Clear, then a bulletin came out about "Natural Clear". They sent me up to there Portland mission and did a Certainty Rundown on me, and I attested to Clear. What kind of deal was this? If you noticed, after this Natural Clear notice came out, around 1978, 1979-The most Clears ever in COS history were being reported to advance magazine. What was the Deal folks? Let me know? Thanks, Mark
     
  2. Some Scientologists have to work at being suckers, while others are natural born suckers, if you bring your credit card to your nearest Org, depending on your line of credit and available funds, they will be happy to tell you which one you are.
     
  3. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    Chuck has a tendency to minimize and mock any possible positive outcomes of Dianetics or Scientology processes. I can understand this, but I think it doesn't really help, because it doesn't embrace the fact that many of us experienced very positive changes in our perception, awareness, understanding, behavior and affect as a result of having done some (but not all) processes in the Church's arsenal. Thus, it can come across as bigoted, or stupid, since it addresses only lowest-common-denominators of critics of the Church, without understanding why people stayed and pursued the things that were positive. No doubt there were suckers in the Church, but I wasn't, nor were many of the people I knew. We were ignorant, perhaps, of the origins of the subject, and only later, much to our chagrin, did we find out we didn't have to tolerate abuse in the service of our quest for enlightenment. Suckers implies that there was nothing there to be had, though, and this is both untrue, and a disservice to those who know better.

    My own take on the Natural Clear issues is that it is TRUE that some people never were anything other than serene and competent and sailed through their lives without "held-down sevens". It is ALSO true that Hubbard only recognized this because he saw it as a way to get these people to pay a lot of money fast for the OT Levels. Much like many other phases of Scientology's progression, they sold out the possibility of future gain for the reality of present financial gain or social control. Short-term thinking, coupled with paranoid delusion and narcissism are rarely healthy.

    For David Mayo's thoughts on the matter, read his Clear
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2009
  4. msureof

    msureof New Member

    Thanks Uniquemand

    Good info on the state of Clear. Thanks, Mark
     
  5. Joy Arthur

    Joy Arthur New Member

    Hi, yea I had an exact similar experience. I am not an ex auditor but for sure a fellow natural clear. Yea they sent me to do the CCRD as well after the bulletin came out and I attested as well. I had the exact same feeling as you at the time. If natural clears are so few, then how come there are so many attests in this short period of time? Then of course the term kind of disappeared almost as fast as it appeared.

    I rarely bother any more researching Scientology to try and find where I went wrong but I will say that today I did find something, kind of a lot actually (compared to just one sentence previously) surrounding the tech Ron released about the state of Natural Clear.

    Evidently there were not as many as you and I seem to recall. The internet data I found said that 7 beings attested to Natural clear in June and July of 1979.And it said see: periodical 'Source 21, June July Flag completions. And another 12 Natural Clears attested in in Aug 1979 (see periodical 'Ability 329, Aug 79 "graduates and releases"

    Well I tried researching these on the web ya know, just to see if my name was there but could not find these two references. I am 62 and terrible with computers and web searching. Maybe your better at it at than me and can find at least your name listed there if not mine as well.

    Doesn't it all seem so mystical?? It does to me. Especially now that I may have stumbled across data that suggests there were only 19 beings who attested to this state of natural clear and none after that. Perhaps their names are listed under completions in these two periodicals. If so I think it would be a good idea if those 19 beings got into communication with one another even if my name is not on the list. I can't do much more research anytime soon as I am pretty burnt out. Then some how your post popped up so I was compelled to respond to it!! :)
     
  6. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    I too f/n'd on "natural clear" which lead to my being declared one.
    Kind of absurd if you ask me.
    I might have f/n d because it sounded nice... like Natural Light Beer.
    If I'd fn'd on Eggs Benedict because I was in the mood for some or hungry it would hardly make me an egg or a Benedict.
    The Scilons need to knock off the A = A reasoning or lack of thereof.....:no:
     
  7. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    whaaa.

    http://www.ivymag.org/iv-01-02.html

    from the beginning of the article by David Mayo (if you click on the link):
    I keep getting a belly laugh. What the hell happened to two people co-auditing to the state of "clear" in the 1950 release of Dianetics? :roflmao:

    And now in 1978 we have the state of "dianetic clear" was announced, and then "natural clear" & "past life clear" as well. :laugh:

    It's amazing how I fell for this bill of goods. Sign me up, I can't wait to do OT8 with it's EP of whole track recall. :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2015
  8. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist


    Yeah, and in the 1970s there was also "Keyed-out Clear".
    One day, while on Riverside Mission staff, Joe Yazbeck told me that he had attested to Keyed-out Clear.
     
  9. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Thread necromancy! :omg:
     
  10. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    A bit of a thread derail:

    What happens if I get two people in front of me who are so-called "pan determined" and they disagree? :coolwink::biggrin:
     
  11. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Yep and there was also Dianetic Clear (as opposed to Clear).

    It was expected that Keyed-out and Dianetic Clears would still have to do the Clearing Course once they (inevitably) came back down to Earth, though.

    When the big Clear revision came through in the late 70s you got to attest to Clear if you'd voiced the Clear Cognition at some point in your Dianetic auditing. At least that's how I remember it. Then we got the DCSI (Dianetic Clear Special Intensive) followed by the CCRD (Clear Certainty Rundown).

    The Hubbard issues where he talks about Natural Clear are very vague but the upshot is that there might just possibly be a very small, miniscule even, number of them in existence.
    I think they may only possibly exist in a remote Galaxy unimaginably far, far away. :roflmao:
     
  12. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    If they're really pan-determined, how could they possibly disagree? :)
     
  13. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    Personally, methinks that El Ron came up with "Natural Clear" to hedge Hisself's bet re: why Hisself "was able to rise above the 'Bank'". :coolwink::whistling::eyeroll:
     
  14. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    I was imagining how two schizophrenics would be arguing about this. :coolwink:
    Anyway... back to thread topic.
     
  15. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    My suspicion has been his drug use supposedly allowed him to do so.

    (Isn't there a story about Nibs, LRH's son, and OT III?)
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2015
  16. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Oh, that's like, the whole basis of some forms of hypnotism - the opposing ideas that freeze the brain or put the person in a trance, and it is more commonly known as (drum roll) cognitive dissonance - so the answer to what happens is: Nothing - obviously they're Scientologists - they spend endless hours writing KR's on each other.

    But back to the natural clear - all that gets wiped out when you do your OT preps and they tell you, you aren't clear, and audit the crap out of you till you are. My wife had like 5 or 6 DCSI's and Clear certainty rundowns - they really screwed her around with wrong indications, correct indications that were later found wrong, on and fucking on - and this was at both AOLA and Flag.

    Mimsey
     
  17. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    On Natural Clear all I can say is that I was me before scn, and I'm back to being me again. I've cleared the scn out of me now. That's all I want to attest to.
     
  18. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    I attested Natural Clear, too, at AOLA. I think it was around 1982.

    Naturally, I am thus able to clear the Scientology implant and engram from my life. :dance2:
     
  19. Operating DB

    Operating DB Truman Show Dropout

    How would one attest to Just Sheila's and La La Lou Lou's awesome exotic states?
    Natural Wog? Keyed Out Wog? Born Again Wog? Scientology Was a Crock o' Shit and Now I'm Back to My Normal Natural State That Existed Before I Got Suckered Into It State Of Blissfullness?
     
  20. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    Operating Human?

    Native State?

    Real?