Helena Handbasket
Gold Meritorious Patron
Right. My error.waste 12 weeks (or more) ... a year
Helena
Right. My error.waste 12 weeks (or more) ... a year
Yes, I audited at least 6 sessions a day, every day, except when I was at Flag or on a persistent FN that wouldn't quit.
I didn't say a Conditions trip lasted 3 months I said "waste 12 weeks (or more) a year". That was in reference to the 6 month checks ie 2 a year at around 6 weeks a pop.
Flag routinely promised that you'd be in and out in 2 weeks on 6MC but that was never the case for anyone I knew.
They often assigned Treason (betrayal after trust) for this sort of stuff. How hard is it to just do the Conditions? It's a helluvalot less arduous than paying the freight on Flag's "license to survive".
^^^ Yup! ^^^
I think it is a given that LRH was always financially motivated if that is what you mean. Maybe he was devious enough to dangle this out there knowing people would use it to skip straight to OT and then he could tangle them all up in expensive corrective actions after the fact.
I was trying to make a point that for the person attesting to Natural Clear at the time the cost saving aspect could be very inviting. Maybe knowing you were going to save a couple grand in 1978 (adjusted for inflation) dollars in itself was enough to FN on the attest.
But he also went on that price increasing binge and a property buying spree and ratcheted up the Birthday Game stat push about the same time - while the staff were on rice and beans.
My personal theory is that he was already having undetected micro strokes and was in the early stages of dementia. It would explain a lot about DM also. If I had to work closely with a senile LRH from the age of 16 I probably would have danced on his grave and claimed the throne as well deserved payback. Then I would start to clean up all the insanity like stop promoting the Clear Completions stat - only by then, my mind would probably be pretty much gone also.
The cost-saving aspect may have been an early motivation, but shortly after past-life clear and natural clear were announced, there was also the announcement that clears would be doing grades.
So clears didn't end up missing much of the bridge at all, no matter how they attested. Just a bit of Dianetics is all, and then there was NOTS, which was supposedly at first for clears who could not / did not run Dianetics, so at the end of the day, since NOTS was so much more expensive, the past life and natural clear attests ended up paying more anyway.
IMHO the reactive mind is a sort of "flypaper" that engrams stick to. A clear CAN have engrams, but they're not so "sticky" any more, and can be removed by inspection.
Perhaps most of the engrams a clear has after going clear is simply those that were out of restimulation, not available to be picked up, and generally no trouble at all for the person. When one does pop up, it can be removed easily, without a formal session. New engramic experiences would be a little more difficult, but without a full "bank" to help hold it in place, it's still rather easy.
And if a clear is clear, what does ze need the OT levels for? The quick answer is that even a clear is still at the effect of the reactive minds of OTHERS.
Just my 5.6 Hungarian Forint.
Helena
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Excerpts from a 1989 article by David Mayo on Clear:
( Complete article - http://www.ivymag.org/iv-01-02.html )
_________________________________________
START QUOTE
Clear
By David Mayo, USA.
In late 1978, the state of "dianetic clear" was announced. Within a few months two other "states of clear" were introduced: the state of "natural clear" and the state of "past life clear".
Yes, BigBlue, I agree with this. Just to look at his girth, it would appear he didn't maintain a healthy diet - so I figure lots of arteries clogging to cause vascular dementia - the type where the brain is not getting enough oxygen and it begins to deteriorate. And at his age he was a candidate for both Alzheimer's dementia and Lewy Body Dementia. Plus I believe he had undiagnosed mental illness throughout his life.
People can have any or all of the various types of dementia. One of the saddest things I've encountered lately was to read Robin Williams' autopsy report. (The poor man. RIP) Yes, it is online.
I can attest from personal experience within my own family that dealing with a self-centered "strongly opinionated" person who descends into dementia is no picnic for those around them. They can become quite abusive to everyone around them.
I sure wish Pat Broeker (sp?) would write a book.
IMHO the reactive mind is a sort of "flypaper" that engrams stick to. A clear CAN have engrams, but they're not so "sticky" any more, and can be removed by inspection.
Perhaps most of the engrams a clear has after going clear is simply those that were out of restimulation, not available to be picked up, and generally no trouble at all for the person. When one does pop up, it can be removed easily, without a formal session. New engramic experiences would be a little more difficult, but without a full "bank" to help hold it in place, it's still rather easy.
And if a clear is clear, what does ze need the OT levels for? The quick answer is that even a clear is still at the effect of the reactive minds of OTHERS.
Just my 5.6 Hungarian Forint.
Helena
It surprises me that there are people who still believe there is such a thing as "A Clear" even though they have left the CofS and are able to access all of the information about Hubbard and his so-called tech.
It seems to me that being told you are "Clear" is a status symbol to some people and they are unwilling to discard it even in the face of overwhelming evidence that there is no such thing.
I have seen one member of ESMB saying he/she was told twice by the CofS that they were a Natural Clear. In another post this person said they left the CofS when they were told they weren't Clear! To me, that sums it up.
It surprises me that there are people who still believe there is such a thing as "A Clear" even though they have left the CofS and are able to access all of the information about Hubbard and his so-called tech.
It seems to me that being told you are "Clear" is a status symbol to some people and they are unwilling to discard it even in the face of overwhelming evidence that there is no such thing.
I have seen one member of ESMB saying he/she was told twice by the CofS that they were a Natural Clear. In another post this person said they left the CofS when they were told they weren't Clear! To me, that sums it up.
It surprises me that there are people who still believe there is such a thing as "A Clear" even though they have left the CofS and are able to access all of the information about Hubbard and his so-called tech.
It seems to me that being told you are "Clear" is a status symbol to some people and they are unwilling to discard it even in the face of overwhelming evidence that there is no such thing.
I have seen one member of ESMB saying he/she was told twice by the CofS that they were a Natural Clear. In another post this person said they left the CofS when they were told they weren't Clear! To me, that sums it up.
It surprises me that there are people who still believe there is such a thing as "A Clear" even though they have left the CofS and are able to access all of the information about Hubbard and his so-called tech.
It seems to me that being told you are "Clear" is a status symbol to some people and they are unwilling to discard it even in the face of overwhelming evidence that there is no such thing.
I have seen one member of ESMB saying he/she was told twice by the CofS that they were a Natural Clear. In another post this person said they left the CofS when they were told they weren't Clear! To me, that sums it up.
That was me I expect. They changed there mind and then agreed I was clear after all.
The reason I left was that it became clear to me that all I could look forward to
was a future of wrong actions. They had started giving me LX lists without telling
me what they were running and several days of me saying I wasn't interested
in what I was being run on. They couldn't very well sec check me as I'd just
come of a self assigned FPRD with massive wins which is probably the best action
I've ever done. During this period I was having to miss many sessions because of
persistent F/N or going ext. I went on to do very well on OT 2&3. I did it all my way,
not the CO$ way.
Re the bolded above ... didn't it bother you at all that you were calling the shots (doing it all your way) when it was supposed to require hubbards highly trained, standard tehk "terminals" using their amazing expertise and precision CSing to guide you safely through the wall of fire (gasp) and deposit you gently on the other side?
Didn't you feel that something was wrong with the situation if you could just do what you decided was the right action and ignore the "professionals"?
:confused2:
I felt that I had some benefit during my time in Scientology. But it needs to be pointed out that believing one had "gains" while in Scientology does not mean that the "gains" were because of Scientology. There is no evidence or proof.Chuck has a tendency to minimize and mock any possible positive outcomes of Dianetics or Scientology processes. I can understand this, but I think it doesn't really help, because it doesn't embrace the fact that many of us experienced very positive changes in our perception, awareness, understanding, behavior and affect as a result of having done some (but not all) processes in the Church's arsenal. Thus, it can come across as bigoted, or stupid, since it addresses only lowest-common-denominators of critics of the Church, without understanding why people stayed and pursued the things that were positive. No doubt there were suckers in the Church, but I wasn't, nor were many of the people I knew. We were ignorant, perhaps, of the origins of the subject, and only later, much to our chagrin, did we find out we didn't have to tolerate abuse in the service of our quest for enlightenment. Suckers implies that there was nothing there to be had, though, and this is both untrue, and a disservice to those who know better.
Yes, I audited at least 6 sessions a day, every day, except when I was at Flag or on a persistent FN that wouldn't quit.
I didn't say a Conditions trip lasted 3 months I said "waste 12 weeks (or more) a year". That was in reference to the 6 month checks ie 2 a year at around 6 weeks a pop.
Flag routinely promised that you'd be in and out in 2 weeks on 6MC but that was never the case for anyone I knew.
They often assigned Treason (betrayal after trust) for this sort of stuff. How hard is it to just do the Conditions? It's a helluvalot less arduous than paying the freight on Flag's "license to survive".