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Questions, questions...

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Udarnik, Aug 29, 2013.

  1. Orglodyte

    Orglodyte Patron with Honors

    Re: Cowboy

    Thank you, Face. I've read every one of Cowboy's posts.

    Cowboy, if you are reading this, I hope you are well and happy, and I for one would LOVE to hear more of your stories.
  2. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    That's about what I figured.

    Quick, somebody move the above to the stupid thread. :thumbsup:
  3. Udarnik

    Udarnik Gold Meritorious Patron


    20th February 2011, 02:40 PM
    I was at St. Hill when the hubbard thing introduced this hallucination.
    "You still here? Get out. Get off this train. We hate you." And from the speakers "This happened to you yesterday, tomorrow, now. This is your departure point, keep coming back. You'll be meeting all your friends here. When you're killed and dead keep coming back. You haven't a chance to get away. You've got to report in. This happened to you days ago, weeks ago, years ago. You don't know when this happened to you. We hate you. Get out. Don't ever come back."

    Hey, don't leave out the Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck implants.
    21st February 2011, 02:54 AM
    There we were, Autumn of 1963, in the Chapel at St. Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex, England. Sussex is a quite nice county south of London; all pretty with trees and shrubs and grasses. Up on St. Hill outside of East Grinstead there was a major contamination going on called the St. Hill Special Briefing Course. I was a part of this contamination.

    Down in the basement of St. Hill was the theory class. We were divided into W, X, Y and Z units. Z, pronounced "Zed" if you're Brit/Aussie/NZ/So. African. "Zee" if you were American. It got to be a bit of a courtesy that the Zee users started saying "Zed" and the Zed users began using "Zee". The W was newbies to the SHSBC. X were students looking for goals, own goals. Y was those who had their goal found and checked out by Herbie Parkhouse: goal had to read 2 out of 3 calls after getting the "rudiments" in. The Ruds at that time were the suppress-invalidated-etc. set of auditing commands.

    We were there in the Y unit to finish our checksheets and then run off to the Z unit to "run out" the goal. There was no one in the Z unit at the time. There I was along with Ian Tampian, Alan Walter, Eleanore Turner, Ann Tampian, John Jaques DeLance, Peter Williams, Tony Dunlevey, Mario Finninger, John McMaster, Contantine Diamontides, Frederico Escheverria, Guy Eltringham, and others. I don't remember all their names at the moment and most all were wonderful people.

    David Gaiman was also there.

    At this point in time and evolution they won't mind my writing here what some of the "goals" were. Alan's was To Be Certain, Guy had To Be Sure, Peter was To Be the Leader, Tony was To Be Top Man, and my goal (oh this is truly hilarious), To be an assassin. I could go into the details of how it came out to be this goal but, well, maybe at another time. But I will say, at the time this "to be an assassin" goal spread through the student body like wildfire. It started off upon my return from having the goal check out by Herbie Parkhouse. Just after the goal checked out, I was headed back to the Chapel where Mary Sue was holding forth as was standard at that time of day on Fridays. Oh it was great, as I came up the stairs from the basement, there was LRH. So I put my hands on his shoulders and told him quite directly what the goal was. He baffeled! I then went on to the chapel. When I entered Suzie was up on the podium. As I made my way to my chair she, in an aside manner, asks, "Did it check out?" I nodded. "What is it?" she asked. "To be an assassin" says I. "Oh you hot thing," Susie says, sort of giggling. So then the whole bloody SHSBC knew.

    My PC at the time was Guy Eltringham and just over there was Alan Walter when he was being a PC.

    Well the similarity between Guy's "To Be Sure" and Alan's "To Be Certain" would cause rocket reads on Alan when I would call out "To Be Sure" to Guy. This gave Alan's auditor some difficulties.

    So there we were all working our way through our ever-changing checksheets. Almost daily changes, additions. The hubbard thing would give a lecture, then bulletins would be made up from the lecture and added to the never-ending checksheets.

    (As I look back at this I have to giggle at the abject absurdity of it.)

    We had been through R2-12, 3GA, 3GAXX (the XX stood for Criss-Cross), this, that and the other. We were the cat's meow, the world's leading techies, goal found, never-ending checksheets to be completed and then off to "handle" the found goal and become super-dooper OTs.

    The hubbard thing was a bit scared of all this. "My gawhd, they'll become big OTs and be more powerful then I am." So, in his standard paranoid manner, he fucked it all up.

    One fine day we were all ordered to The Chapel, all the Y unit, really big deal, whereupon we were to get the goal "To Forget" to rocket-read on our PC. "WTF is this shit now?" was the real reality among the students.

    And, of course, it was really no big deal to get this "To Forget" to rocket-read. After all, it was all just a mental construct. So we got this "To Forget" to rocket-read and thus entered The Helatrobus Implants, aka The Heaven Implants.

    And thus "own goals (and GPMs)" were laid aside in favor of implanted GPMs.

    And now, in this calendar year of 2011, we can lay it all aside. We, the most advanced techies in the world, found out to where all this auditing the end of the hubbard-thing's so-called "Bridge".
    19th April 2011, 07:27 PM
    The hubbard thing used to babble on about his engrams and he had a type he babbled as a "grouper", would "group" his "time track". His OT III hallucination was one of his "groupers".

    14th June 2011, 12:45 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by guanoloco View Post
    Any lecture of LRH auditing is a dismal display - the only defense I could pose back then was that perhaps they were recorded prior to later tech releases.

    Now I think others developed tech and were the superb auditors and Tubby took credit for it.

    What's even funnier is I posted on the Top 100 Stupidest Moments in Scientology thread one time the number of past life clears at my local org.

    It was an outrageous amount, something like 1/2 the staff and public, which was like 40 people or something, and all of them in their 40's which would've put them cleared in 1950. One of them was cleared before the book was written and the auditor was LRH.

    The ridiculous part was how they all died immediately after going clear, apparently, to where I thought, "what happened? Did you all get wiped out in a bus accident going to some event or something?"

    Of course, I did this tabulation on my own and didn't share the fact that I was doing it or the results with anyone. Quite revealing. I figured the bulk of them were dub-in or something because only a very few actually did OT levels so would "know", as my thoughts went back then.

    Now I think the whole enterprise was delusional.

    No wonder Hubbub didn't want people discussing their cases!!
    Most of us could audit rings around the Hubbard thing. It was not a very good auditor within the parameters it itself had set up.

    First time I saw the Hubbard thing auditing was at a Congress in Washington, D. C. back in '57. He was auditing Nibs on CCH 1. He look quite pretentious auditing from an assumed personality.

    I remember seeing another of his delivered sessions, it was auditing Mary Sue...this was at St. Hill in the '62-63 era. Terrible TRs, would Q and A and again with a voice and attitude that was laced with a pretentious, assumed personality.

    Coming forward to what I have since learned, well of course the Hubbard thing would adopt a personality as it had no native personality of its own being the artificial conjured entity he was.

    And while we're at it I might as well toss this in for a good laugh. We were doing a lot of "research" on Rockslams at that time and one of the Hubbard thing's rockslamming items was...(oh you're going to love this)...

    "unlimited wealth"
    14th July 2011, 03:20 PM
    First time I heard the dead-and-gone Hubbard thing use the term "squirrel" was at a Thursday-evening staff meeting at FCDC in 1957. The Hubbard thing was nattering on about Frank (I forget his last name), Jack Horner and Sylvan Stein. As to how/why it used this term I do not know.

    16th October 2010, 05:20 PM
    Being that I am the [old guy] around here, yes, I knew Jack. I liked Jack. Jack was a goodguy. Jack was honest. And, wonderfully so, the Hubbard entity did not get along with Jack often calling him a "squirrel". In fact, the first two "squirrels" I ever heard about from the spew-hole of the Hubbard entity were Jack Horner and Sylvan Stein. Both very OK guys.

    2nd September 2010, 11:02 PM
    I was on staff at FCDC in 1957 for a few months and the "ED" was the Hubbard entity itself. Every Thursday evening we would have a "staff meeting" where the entity would spew forth.

    I remember him commenting one time about "why" they turned the cult into a religion...and this is a fairly accurate quote: "We polled the field about this and when the right squirrels said no, don't do it, we know it was the right thing to do."

    16th August 2010, 03:21 AM
    I was on staff at FCDC when the Hubbard thing got all pissed off at Paulette Cooper and started hiring lawyers to attack her. This was in the late 50s or early 60s. The lawyer's name was Brinkman.
    No, it did not start with David Miscavige. The hate comes from the Hubbard thing.

    6th July 2010, 09:03 PM
    Hubbard-thing was always dubbing in something. We had RSes all over the place at St. Hill in 62-63. Hubbard-thing even issued one of his so-called HCOBs (red ink on white paper) where he had invented a "scale" from a bottom of those who could not rock slam to a top of those who could RS easily.
    The "evil purpose" idea came later. Hubbard-thing was scared doodooless of the RS.
    This was a time at St. Hill when Hubbard-thing was scared doodooless that us "thetans" would become more powerful than him.
    ...and, becomimg unthetans, we did!

    2nd July 2010, 10:24 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by AnonyMike View Post
    May I ask you explaining the term "tulpa lips"

    I first met this Hubbard-thing back in 1957 in Washington, D.C. He talked a lot, lips flapping and all. If you look at some of the videos of Hubbard-thing talking, watch his mouth. What in the world are his lips made of?

    Over the decades I eventually came across this pic:

    This is an excellent, excellent representation of Hubbard-thing. Note the lips.

    So I gave him/it the nickname "LIps", thus, Lips Hubbard.

    As for the "tulpa" part. Some months ago Carmel asked in ESMB chat if anyone had ever seen Hubbard care. I got to looking. In all the time I knew this thing I had seen him "care" but one time: during a rain in Washington D. C. he brought an umbrella over from his home for his wife, Mary Sue. But that aside, Carmel's question had gotten me to looking even further into my direct experiences with this thing.

    And every time I would look there would be something missing, something strange, twisted in regards this thing. After about 3 weeks of on and off looking Voila! I got it! This thing was soulless! I could go into whole chapters of my experiences with this thing but I just don't care to. I put away my writing stuff years ago.

    So what is a soulless being and how can it appear to be human? So I looked further. Hubbard was an apparition, a conjured entity, a thought form, not a natural spiritual being. He was conjured by some 2,500 beings who reside in the dark vampire levels of Bardo/Purgatory/Between Lives//etc. And there is a Tibetan term for this type of entity: tulpa. I like the term. So I use it.

    23rd May 2010, 12:47 PM

    Quote Originally Posted by Alanzo View Post
    That's exactly why I post there.

    Scientologists deserve rational arguments for things. They deserve the chance to speak and to question and to think about things. They deserve to have the right to disagree and to hash things out among themselves with no idea too evil to be spoken. That's what I thought I was joining when I first joined the Church of Scientology. I actually thought it would be like a Greek Symposium of Free Inquiry, where all kinds of new ideas were proposed and discussed in an atmosphere of open examination in the pursuit of knowledge. The reason I thought that it would be that way is because that is exactly what I was told it would be, in the Creed and elsewhere.

    But the Church has denied Scientologists that, and denied us all that.

    It is extremely good that Marty lets most of my posts, and others', through. If there is a high regard for the freedom of speech, there can not be a cult.

    I just wish that he would attempt a rational argument once in a while for the stances he takes.

    He's not used to being questioned in the Church. In fact, LRH actually forbids it with a "junior" and especially with a critic.

    But, there will come a time, after living long enough in the real world, that Marty is going to see the need to explain himself rationally to his flock. And to provide them with sound, consistent reasoning for the directions he wants them to go in.

    Marty will learn to respond to questioning without arrogance, without dead agent tech, and with a sound rationale instead.

    And on that day, Scientology will have moved on up a little higher.
    In the early years scifaggOTry was quite a bit open as you stated; "I actually thought it would be like a Greek Symposium of Free Inquiry, where all kinds of new ideas were proposed and discussed in an atmosphere of open examination in the pursuit of knowledge."

    And over the years I watched Hubbard-thing change that. When we would have a weekly "Staff Meeting", this was in 1957, of course the "Staff Meeting" was but a "Hubbard thing is going to spew some more."

    And during his/its spews it would usually always include an opinion attack on someone in the field, Sylvan Stein, Jack Horner, Frank...Frank...I lost his last name, and others. With more and more usage of the term "squirrel" and "squirreling". It would opinionate against these folks who were directly contributing to the tech expansion of the subject in a free manner.

    Hubbard thing couldn't stand it. It always had to be Me Me and an ever-magnifying MEEEEEEEE!!!

    Fuck 'im/it.
    22nd March 2010, 12:40 PM

    Quote Originally Posted by apple View Post
    I have just spoken with a friend of mine that is in Scientology. It seems that he believes that Ron broke his back in discovering OT3. I didnt want to invalidate or question him on that. That was big of Ron to sacrifice his health so that we may have an easier and safer way through the ring of fire.

    I have never done the OT levels. So my question is how many of you have broken your back in achieving that state, or even come close? As far as I understand one step off the narrow path, you can break your back!
    There isn't anything 'big' about this fake entity Hubbard. He was on drugs, got on a motorcycle and dumped it. While hallucinating he came up with his so-called 'OT 3 Wall of fire'.

    The only wall was delusion.
  4. Udarnik

    Udarnik Gold Meritorious Patron

    So, the previous post was what I got from Mystic's post history.

    Suggestions on whom to parse next?

    I have some ideas on organization once we are done collecting data. Both by subject (e.g. Ron the Drug User) and era (Dianetics, SCN in the 50s, SCN in the 70s, SCN in the 80s, Ron in Hiding).

    One entry from an eyewitness might be in several categories, and each category would be an attempt to give a first hand snapshot of that facet of Ron's character or era of his life.

    Thoughts? Suggestions?
  5. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Here is something that Arnie had preserved for us. I found it quite informative and was by a chemist who knew Ron starting in the 50's. Thanks Arnie

    Dec 28 1993

    ...."According to your Advt. on p. 25 of the 1/3 Spotlight, you want to know something about Scientology. I can categorically state that seldom in the History of Mankind has something which is capable of such great good been used to create such havoc.

    That statement needs explanation, which I shall be more than glad to furnish; I have no axes to grind, either pro or anti Scientology, but I lived through the very interesting times of its inception, and you simply cannot understand Scientology (hereafter referred to as Scn) without understanding what went on forty years and more ago.....
  6. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    Re: Mystic


    actually i could tell you something about his goal "to be an assassin" only i can't because i got it from him while auditing him at fcdc back in the early '70's

    but he's an incredible character and further excerpts from his writings are always worth reading
  8. Udarnik

    Udarnik Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: Mystic

  9. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    Re: Mystic

  10. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    hmm, I was wondering also. Might well be able to locate the name initials in the Compeat Aberee publications which were published in Witchita. However, they are not all formatted well and there are many years of them also, so it might be a lengthy search. But commonalities such as Phoenix, Denver and Sacremento or California might be signposts. Perhaps Kristi Watcher, who manages the database at could help you search her data base which contains those Compleat Aberree publications. A large number of the 50's members are mentioned in those issues.
  11. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Udarnik. This might narrow the search down. As I believe these publications were originally OCR's, I can see how the E could become a "-9"

    from Volume 8, Issue 3, page 16

    ""Apropos of nothing, I find it amusing that Jim Pinkham is still
    cavorting around the fringes of Scientology; I
    thought the co-author of 'The Journal of Pogology' would have
    avoided that trap. After all, he did discover,
    independently , the heavy level of hypnosis to which a
    Scientological victim must agree -or did he listen to one tape
    too many ?" -9. G. Robles, Jr., Sacramento, Cal.

    oh and vol 10 issue 5 page 17

    any conditions let the pre- ably worse than the engram .
    clear know the results of his "If you are going to make a
    computations; these are for habit of printing 'session'
    the notes. The reasons are material, for the sake of our
    two-fold: first, it is the p . reputations, please print good,
    c.'s mental muscles one is at- illustrative material. This
    tempting to exercise, not the one wasn't good, it wasn't ilauditor's...second, any compu- lustrative, and it dam' well
    tation the auditor makes is of wasn 't dianetic. It does, hownecessity out of his own case, ever, typify what Art Coulter
    and quite probably does not doesn't like -- because it is
    apply!...If a cognition, burst true that many -- too many --
    of insight, or j tst plain real- auditors act this way.
    ization of 'why I acted that "Anent Coulter -- 'The lady
    way' is to come, it will come doth protest too much, mefrom within the framework of thinks.' I happen to be by way
    reality-understanding that is of being an authority on what
    peculiarly the p. c. ' s , and occurred. It displeases me to
    will not be imposed from out- see Art put in the position of
    side. re-reiterating what is obvious
    "Much harm can be done, and :eek:n the face of it: that Synervery little good accomplished getics is not an offshoot, reby the psychoanalytic approach arrangement, or bastardization
    typified in 'Tragedy'. It is of dianetics.
    permissible to steer a bit; it "I was in the original valis not permissible to shove. idation group in the SynerPsychological pro c essing is getic approach. I found, as did
    valid and helpful only to the others, that in its place it
    extent that it is non-direc- was valid, valuable, and intive. The 'I know what's wrong deed the only decent tool for
    with you' approach is deadly. present-time attack of specific
    (That, by the way, is the chief aberrations. It is as near an
    thing wrong with Scientology, approach to complete clientas such; it is guaranteed to centered processing as can be
    produce starry-eyed robots be- reached in the present state of
    c ause of its heavy-handed, the art. (No pun intended.) It
    club-footed approach to a del- is not a means of taking care
    icate subject. Scientological of heavily traumatic material ,
    processes, in the hands of non- and it will not cure or even
    directively oriented practi- alleviate psychoses or welltioners, can produce very inter- established neuroses. It is a
    esting results. Whether valid tool designed merely to make
    or valuable is arguable, but the already able individual
    at least they can do no harm more so...
    if not worked directively.l "The reason many think Syn" 'Tragedy', again, was not ergetics has something to do
    a dianetic session because it with dianetics is that it was
    was a drug - induced session. first brought out by the DiaThe psychedelic drugs have a netic Foundation u n de r the
    definite place in psychother- aegis of Don Purcell. To say
    apy, but not as an adjunct or for that reason that Synergetinitiator of processing. To ics is an offshoot of dianetics
    reach otherwise occluded areas, makes exactly as much sense as
    okay; but then it is necessary the Hubbardian claim that diafor the practitioner to en- netics is a branch of Sciencourage the client, very gent- tology... It is true there are
    ly, to work the areas thru one common elements. Of necessity,
    at a time, without computing any valid psychological apand without pushing. The mater- proach will have elements in
    ial should be recorded and used common with any other...
    as a basis for questioning at "Amusing to find me taking
    a later date, when the drug is up the cudgels on Coulter's
    completely out of the system. behalf. I am not, never was,
    The effects of the drug must and never will be an ardent
    be worked out too. The combi- Synergeticist. Neither is my
    nation of medically-trained, wife. Nevertheless we have used
    psychologically-oriented, it and found it good...
    temptation -free characteris- "For the rest of the issue:
    tics required for a person to Friedman? Zero. Kridler? Amusbe an adequate practitioner ing. O'Connell? So what else
    where peyote, LSD, or lopho- is new? (See Max Freedom Long ).
    phora are involved is rare. Hart to Heart? Our editor is
    There are such people, but always capable of giving one
    usually the drugs are given cause to think. The letters? I
    under the supervision of a like the expanded letter colgroup collectively having the umn. Schroeppel? First one of
    necessary qualifications... I his articles in which I can
    hope the p. c. in ' tragedy' had find no major area of disagreebrains enough to run out the ment. If a person must run
    'session' later: it was prob- past-life recalls, let him;
    SEPTEMBER, 1963 T h e A B E R R E E
    he '11 get to present time some
    day. In general , the issue
    gets a B.
    "Apropos of nothing. Ain't
    it nice that Ron 'forgave' us
    all for all the mean things we
    did to him/it? Excuse me if
    I 'm wrong, but I thought general amnesties were the prerogative of royalty. Now the question arises -- do we forgive him?
    Do we even accept? I cannot see
    any reason for an amnesty, I
    have done nothing of which I
    am not proud, in this line.
    Let's wait and see if actions
    speak as fairly as words." --
    Edward J. Robles Jr., 1153 Amberunod Rd., Sacramento, Calif.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
  12. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    And a gift for all. from the first article by E ......Jr

    The Scientologists' Prayer
    Our Father, which art in Phoenix,
    Hubbard be thy name.
    Thy hair be red, Thy books be read,
    In Kansas, as in Arizona,
    Give us each week,
    A new technique,
    And forgive us our faults, As we mess up our clients.
    And lead us not into bankruptcy, But deliver us from MONEY,
    For thine is the Thetan, And the Engram,
    And the writings forever, Amen.

    LOL how things remain the same..:biggrin:
  13. Udarnik

    Udarnik Gold Meritorious Patron

  14. Udarnik

    Udarnik Gold Meritorious Patron


    Look at the writing style. If that's not the same man from Arnie's Spotlight quote, I'll eat my hat.

    "Half the planet as my responsibility"? LOL!

    Your language been Hubbardized much, dude? :omg:
  15. Udarnik

    Udarnik Gold Meritorious Patron

    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
  16. havoc?

    what have we done with christianity over the centuries?


    of heretics burned at the stake just for one

    i never drank the koolaid. from the start i loved what i still love about it but from the start i feared the thought of scientlogy gaining sovereign national power. ron did build checks and balances into it

    and things to castrate those same checks and balances