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Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by radar, Jan 11, 2008.

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  1. radar

    radar Patron

    Ok, I've been posting on this board a little while now, while trying to familirise myself and understand scientology. I realise that part of the TECH of scio relies on the premise that people have lived before at some time in the past or in fact many times in the past. This beleif as many of you are aware as its roots in Hinduism.
    There appears to be some evidence that might support this idea, words like Deja vu are part of every day language and many people under hypnosis have described in some detail past/former lives they claim to have had. Even young children have had these experiences of living a former life.
    I was pondering about this the other day when a flock of geese flew above me in a perfect V formation, I noticed other geese begining to join them. They had been doing this for a few weeks, its a ritual they do each year, then at some point they all get together and fly off to migrate during the winter. The question that came to my mind is.. where did this memory come from to do this? Where did the map come from that tells birds like this to navigate?
    further : How is it that fish spawn returns as adult to the very river in which it was born to procreate and die? Salmon are a good example. Turtles are another.
    Is this the case of Inherited Memory?
    Could it be that just like you can inherit the nose and mouth of your Great grandfather, so also, you can inherit some of his memories and these are hidden deep in your brain cells somewhere passed on with DNA?
    Its hard to think of thoughts and memories in this way which appear to be non physical things yet with the invention of the computer and computer memory RAM /ROM its not too difficult to see how.
    Could it be in fact, rather than people living in some former life, the experiences ther'e having is evidence of memory transference passed on by previous generations, just like the birds and the fish. Any thoughtds on this?
  2. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    Scientology (Hubbard's) viewpoint on this is that all life is imbued with theta. Perhaps even an individual thetan that runs a large collection of bodies. There is also the concept/idea/is-ness of the genetic entity - which is a theta manifestation (BT like?) that carries this "genetic" memory/information forward through time. Being a believer in the spirit, I find this to be more reasonable than some kind of physical transference - how in the hell would that get encoded into 2 cells?

    When I can be a bird, I'll try and find out more for ya. :)
  3. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    I thought you'd have a good rapport with your parrot? :D
  4. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    Hehe. He's actually quite stubborn! He wants far too many crackers for the information. Musta been a reg in his prior incarnation. :D
  5. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    You just can't get good staff these days! :D
  6. nw2394

    nw2394 Silver Meritorious Patron

    There is, I believe, mounting evidence that DNA can 'remember'. Specifically this means that some genes can be turned on or off by environmental factors and that this 'gene switching' tends to persist for some generations.

    The amount of 'memory' would be somewhat limited, of course.

    It doesn't necessarily mean that past lives do or don't exist.

    The flocking behaviour you refer to in birds is easily replicatable by quite simplistic computer programs. One can get quite spectacular, apparently very ordered behaviour out of some quite simple rules. (And one can also get some very disordered, apparently quite random behaviour out of other simple rules and laws, for example the weather. Swot up on chaos theory. Very interesting subject)

  7. ExScnDude

    ExScnDude Patron with Honors

    The total evidence for the existence of past lives is a bunch of people saying I "know" I've lived before.

    "I ran an incident looked in my mind, contacted an incident that occurred before this life began, and subsequently had a realization. Ergo, past lives exist", says Bob.

    "Well how can you be sure?" asks Fred.

    "I know what I know", says Bob.

    The totality of empirical evidence supporting the existence of past lives is zero.
  8. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    I believe in past lives and I totally agree with what you say here.

    Almost anything that could be presented as evidence is in records a person might already have had access to.

    Mission into Time had Hubbard taking data from e-meter assessment rather than wholly from straight recall.

    It can never be "proved". Some things might pass as "convincing evidence" for the less sceptical among us though. A child who can speak a foreign language who has never been exposed to it, for instance. Even so, such phenomena might be explained by other theories.
  9. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Go for it! Present a good theory to explain such a phenomenon.

    I say "good theory" rather than plain "theory" to preclude things like "a clone of a foreigner's mind had taken up residence in the child's body".

    I suppose my criterion for a good theory here would be one less preposterous, shall we say, than the simple explanation of past lives.

  10. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Well past lives never seemed preposterous to me.
    I have tastes, ideas, likes and dislikes, loves - I've never met a kettle or a car that did (so far as I could tell). I have viewpoints (albeit changeable ones) and I fail to see how these things can just disappear when I stop breathing.

    As for alternative theories, they would have to be based on matter or energy rather than "theta". For instance, going to a place and seeing scenes from the whole track could be picking up residual energies from the place or from other living things there. Some ostensibly past-lives abilities brought-forward might be explained through DNA.

    Personally, I totally subscribe to the past life theory but am happy to investigate any other ideas. I've noticed that when I become convinced on some thing I stop looking in that area - which is a recipe for disaster. I believe in thetans but I also believe that the idea of strictly discrete and separate theta entities may be misleading. Once I've reconciled the apparent paradox of "we are all one but we are all separate" you can come worship me at a shrine I'll mock-up for the occasion! :D
  11. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    A little creative processing will handle this! :)

    Get the idea of being your whole individual self?

    Get the idea of fully co-existing with others and in that same co-existence be your own whole individual self?

  12. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Hold on a sec - before I begin, is there any charge for this? :unsure:

    It's weird. I can get the first fine and it feels good (that's because, basically, I'm great :D). I can recall the second from the track and it's nice but I can't mock it up anew in present time. I get feelings of disharmony.

    I've always felt, during this lifetime, that I was cut-off from my spiritual family. :bigcry:
  13. beyond_horizons

    beyond_horizons Patron Meritorious

    The 'Golden Rule' and an 'Eye for an Eye' and I won't worship you if you don't worship me.
  14. Pierrot

    Pierrot Patron with Honors

    could you give here the totality of empirical evidence supporting the existence of, say, a breakfast you had about ten years ago?
  15. Chowderhead

    Chowderhead Patron

    Continued existence is proof of having eaten in the past. Without food we would die. I haven't seen anything remotely like that regarding past lives.
    Why doesn't anyone remember how to build faster than light airplanes? There had to be at least one engineer in the billions of thetans brought here by xenu. Where is all of the advanced technology? Why don't one of you believers build an electronic theta trap from the whole track then kill yourself and get trapped inside the electronic field. Then we can all examine you in all of your thetanic glory. This would surely prove that scientology works. :D
  16. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    That feeling is incredibly common amongst those on any sort of spiritual path. I remember feeling it a lot when I was a Scientologist. I've come across many people in other discpline's who feel the same or similar or a feeling of being lost and far from home.

    I can't say what the truth is for you, but your words in your other post Once I've reconciled the apparent paradox of "we are all one but we are all separate" made me think of something that might help you. You could try alternating these:

    "Could you allow yourself to feel as separate as you do?"
    "Could you allow yourself to feel as one or connected as you do?"

    See what happens...
  17. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    Past lives - when I was a scientologist I believed in them, especially after I ran many in my auditing and audited others on them. Reincarnation was a daily reality to me :thumbsup:

    When I left and discovered with the CofS's help that I was an SP I believed that I was destined to become a pebble, or if I were lucky a rock, for the rest of the duration. :melodramatic:

    Then I studied mysticism, theosophy, etc, etc. All the while I was trying to "discover" what I was and what would happen when I die.

    There are other possible explanations for "past-life recalls", but you have to drop some Hubbard "Axiomatic truths" in order to consider them.

    Hubbard's subject could be re-named "separatology" which would describe his theories. So from a Hubbardian perspective "Past-lives" are incarnations of a separate individual being. There are other perspectives and other theories to explain past lives and reincarnation.
  18. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Consider it a partial repayment for all the wonderful things you've done for me over the years! :happydance:

    Well maybe there - with your spiritual family - there may have been a smidgen of harm done by you......:bigcry:

    So being a pure spirit you separated away to prevent more harm - :melodramatic:
  19. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    It hurts, that's what happens! :melodramatic:
    Thanks LH - I'll give these a spin when I'm a little more sessionable. :)

    Well, I'd prefer the cash to be frank!

    You got that right! :yes:
    I've found some of it but have much more to dig up.
  20. spbill

    spbill Patron with Honors

    I have long considered this a possibility although I don't have any good explanation for how it might work. When I was a young lad I had a series of "deja-vu" experiences - in Hubbardian terms one might say I would occasionally re-experience a mental image picture in the same fidelity with which it was originally recorded, i.e. with no loss of detail. There is an eerie feeling about those moments because there isn't any context to them, just the replay of something I had experienced before - exactly, a perception that filled my mind. I was not thinking *about* something that had happened in the past, I was actually re-living it as though it were happening in the present. I never doubted that the information-content was something that came from my past until one such incident when I was 6 or 7 years old.
    That was just like all the other deja-vu flashes except that I knew with complete certainty that what I experienced did *not* come from my life to date - it wasn't mine! The image presented itself to me exactly as though it was a regular memory of mine coming into view and it was quite indistinguishable, feeling-wise, from my own recalls. But it was too big, it had too much detail in it. It was an experience an adult might have had. It even carried the physical sensation of having being recorded inside a larger skull! I had to find an explanation for that. One possibility was that the memory was inherited somehow. I described the content to my parents and asked if they had any recollection of ever experiencing that thing - and neither of them did. The content was unique enough (for one thing there was a surname (not ours, it was Johnson) in it) - so they'd remember. Neither of my parents had ever had any dealings with a family named Johnson. It just didn't ring any bells with them at all. I never did figure out where it came from.