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Ripping off illegal PCs

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Emma, Jan 30, 2007.

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  1. pur_joy

    pur_joy Patron

    What is really odd :confused: about this fanatical application of "policy" is that more & more people must be getting "knocked back" by the CofS.

    Nowadays, so many people are taking or have taken at any time some form of psychiatric drug (most commonly anti-depressants). So that even if they have made the very unusual step of actually reaching for the tech (feeling that somehow it offers "help") they are then subject to interrogation as to former actions & BINGO! the door is shut. Are they mad!? :eek: (& I think this question answers itself). Rejecting so many potential clients not to mention people already enrolled.

  2. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    reminds me of a story

    I probably have a ton of stories about this, but one in particular comes to mind. A little sad. (I am sorry that so many of my posts are so sad, but that is the truth of what goes on and what went on.)

    One time a folder came to me of a young girl that they wanted to get auditing done on her. She was about 5 years old. Sadly, she had witnessed her mother end her life using a gun. They wanted to get her some assist auditing (neither were in Scn). She had been taking a psyche drug for 2 or more years.

    It was hardened policy we don't touch illegals. It was tough for me. I did not want to send out the folder saying no, we could not help her. I was crying at my desk for 1/2 hour. I was being pushed to hurry up and give instructions but I couldnt!! I had to check into it more and try to see if there was some way around it.

    Long story short, it ended up that it was given to her by a neurologist, not a psych and therefore not illegal and we could audit her!!!

    I still to this day don't see the difference - if they are considered harmful, they are harmful period, no matter who gave them. But in the church there was considered a big difference. It really depended who prescribed them.

    So, make up your fricken' minds guys!!!:pullhair:

    It seemed to me that there was lways "tech refinements", even though the HCOBs never changed - how could they with the author no longer around?

    I mean, it leaves one to wonder...:wall:
  3. pur_joy

    pur_joy Patron

    Long story short, it ended up that it was given to her by a neurologist, not a psych and therefore not illegal and we could audit her!!! 
    Thankyou for that Whatever, most illuminating as to the whole horrible, hidden machinery churning out such declares.


    OHTEEATE Silver Meritorious Patron

    eval of Scn

    When I was on my Class IV Interneship at Tampa Org in 2004, I audited a woman who was not okayed by Flag for being non-sequiteur and delusional. Tampa took her money, no problem. I put her in session, and attempted to run the C/S given. She could not follow the commands very well. She was all over the place. Her itsa was to repeat what she had been telling other auditors, that she worked on the OT levels with LRH in the 30's. That was fine, but had nothing to do with the process we were running. I got the ruds flown, somehow, and she had a win and F/Ned, thank goodness, and I ended off. I was doing my admin and the other auditors asked if it went ok with____________.(womans name). I gave a three word summary,like "what a clusterf*&k" and they said "welcome to the wonderful world of not okay for Flag auditing". I felt really smarmey about the whole thing. It didn't have anything to do with why good people get into Scientology. The org just needed the GI, they thought, but what is the real motivator for quick bucks like that? Auditors who don't feel so good about auditing is not what you want in your HGC. Mike
  5. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

  6. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    I have had something very similar - mine came from smashing into bodies when I played football.

    I have used Myofascial (google it) body work to undo the condition.

    A lot of past incidents came to view as we worked on the area.

    Any therapy (providing no drugs) works well if you train the therapist to pick up the physical manifestations as they occur.:)

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2013
  7. freet43

    freet43 Patron with Honors

    At our mission, people were not refused auditing due to prior drug or psychiatric actions.

    It was not because of money that such people received services, it was because they asked for help, had not received it with the psychs, and we knew the tech could help them, and it did.

    People who had been on psychiatric drugs and even several who had ECT were audited and trained. It was harder for them, as some had very little short-term memory left, however each one that I knew had wins and attained stability in their lives. They were thankful for whatever help they could get.

    TRs the hard way, objectives and the drug rundown all worked on these people.

    Services were given solely to help, and yes, the mission holder was later denounced by the regime for "helping illegal pcs".
  8. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Dear Freet43,
    Thanks for posting this. I never knew.

    Recently I found out that Narconon
    would take on anyone. For a price in the US anyway,.
    Its sad this program is attacked by critics.
  9. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I don't have a problem with a group using a drug rehab program based on LRH stuff. I'm not so sure of the Purif bona fides, but the TRs and ethics programs and so forth are OK (I know others have different opinions). It makes sense that the only lasting cures come after doing a Scn Drug Rundown. So far it all seems reasonable enough to me. I understand that some will relapse, and some will make it. Fair enough.

    The problem comes in when they do crap like I've read about NN Stonehawk, like accepting $30,000 for the program on the basis of false promises, then after the individual gives them a rough time for a week they dump him--without actually doing much to help--in a motel room with $10 and say get lost and no, we won't refund the money. If that is true, it is fraud. It's a rip-off. It is sickening. So what's new, huh?

  10. freet43

    freet43 Patron with Honors

    Narconon was just getting started when I was in, and there were no live in options at that time. My brother, who had drug problems since he was 13, was really in a spin in his early 20s.

    I contacted the org near where he lived, but there was nothing they could offer because they did not have a live in program. My parents put him into a "well-regarded" psych treatment program. Those programs are extremely expensive also, and in those days there was no insurance coverage.

    Over the next 20 plus years, he relapsed numerous times, and spent months in at least 4 such programs that I am aware of. The only time he was stable for any length of time, was when he went from a 6 week live-in program, into a half-way house type of environment for 1 1/2 years. He had done the 12 step programs ad infinitem, and he was a sponsor for "other" addicts, although he relapsed continuously.

    After I had left Scn, I stopped trying to get him interested. But, I do wonder what would have occurred if he had done a narconon program

    I had seen druggies get totally cleaned up with Scn, and that was even before the purif for some, and never relapse.

    Whether that would have worked for my brother, I do not know.

    But, what I do know is the mainstream programs definitely did not work.

    Over the years, I met many of his friends, when they were clean, and would then found out how they disappeared again - they were all relapsing and having difficulties staying clean.

    As years went by, my brother lived the life of a troubled addict, climbing out briefly, and relapsing harder and harder. Worse than the cocaine and the meth, were the easily obtainable new types of prescription drugs. He died of an overdose, not sure if it was intentional or not, when he was only 49.

    I called his insurance company to get the name of his primary physician, only to find out that he had seen at least 10 different physicians, some several times, during that month. And, I called some of them, and they were all prescribing medications - serious meds that somehow the name of has escaped me right now. Only 1 of the doctors knew that he was doing that, and told me that she had tried to get him to seek help again.

    I gave the insurance provider grief for allowing the abuse. They claimed they have no way of monitoring that. It is now a crime in our state to see different doctors just to get prescriptions, but the insurance companies don't watch for that.

    In fact, while my mother and I were at his home several days after he passed away, a fed ex arrived with another supply.

    It is very easy to get prescriptions online now, and that just exacerbates the situation.

    I certainly was not impressed with the treatment programs he went through - none of them worked.

    And, in the large metropolitan area he lived in, these were considered the best programs.

    OHTEEATE Silver Meritorious Patron

    Last edited: Apr 9, 2007
  12. ExScnDude

    ExScnDude Patron with Honors

    I also would like to see the scientific method applied to the results of Scientology processing.

    Unfortunately, the narcissistic individuals that have been in charge of Scientology (and I include LRH) have never been able to stand the scrutiny.

    Be careful, if you make the big thetan wrong, you might find yourself running around a pole for a few months!
  13. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    But they rip people off! They took Greg Beha's money for his kid and weren't going to do one blessed thing. And it was like 20 grand or so...
  14. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

  15. KMomma

    KMomma Patron

    Thanks so much for the info. I will definitely look into it. I'm not a big fan of drugs and have so far managed to get by without using them, so that's a plus. But, as time goes by I keep getting pushed to use (I forget the name) one drug that is supposed to limit the damage being done while the arthritis is active.

    Fortunately, my arthritis did not become active until I was not playing sports competitively anymore. My family has a history of joint problems, we are actually listed in quite a few medical books because of the rare joint disease that a lot of us have. I feel lucky that I just developed the arthritis and not what the others have, but anyway to deal with it better than I have thus far is welcome! Thank you.
  16. freet43

    freet43 Patron with Honors

    We applied PL 16 May 70 Institutional and Shock cases, in the old green volumes, which gave special instructions on dealing with such cases.

    Is that PL not in the "new" green volumes, or altered, or not applied, or are the petitions never approved?
  17. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    "PL 16 May 70 Institutional and Shock cases, Petitions from." is the full title and its in the new vols and in fact I must have read it 25 years or so ago.

    Seems like a damn good PL, essentially saying such cases must agree to enough auditing to get benefit, and must waive right of refund.

    " I do not want to be placed in a position where I would be refusing help to
    anyone who needed it." From the above PL.

    HCOPL 27 OCT 1964R " Policies on physical healing, insanity and sources of trouble" says:- ( revised 15 nov 1987. Revisions are no longer stated in any new red or green vols)

    " Examine to the best of your ability within reasonable administrative limits
    and known tests that any HGC pc accepted for processing does not have a history of deserved institutionalisaion in an insane asylum or any similar place."

    These two policies appear to be in contradiction, and in Orgs OSA/GO would follow the latter and not allow such people on lines. I assume Missions
    did not have such scrutiny.

    How did such people do in auditing?
  18. Vittorio

    Vittorio Patron Meritorious

    The IAS is the only way forward for an illegal PC.

    The only chance these beings stand of getting out of the trap is by donating to planetary clearing crusades, psych busting, Ideal Orgs etc etc.

    There is one guy at London Org who has been around since the days of LRH in London who is illegal (yet he has half a dozen thick PC folders so he musthave gotten auditing at some point) and he donates all his time and money to the Org and the IAS and he is wheeled out at events to give wins.

    I have been told by Nicole, an IAS reg at Saint Hill that there is a PC in Germany who is illegal, a train driver who has given vast sums of money. Another reg told me 'it's there only way out'. Oh come on!

    There were some people who I could not refuse services too. There is one guy, who is really nice, I hope he hasn't been declared illegal for processing, that would be sad.

  19. freet43

    freet43 Patron with Honors

    Slow but steady.

    It was a challenge as the ones who had ECT were also older and between those two things had lost short-term memory. But, they shared wins, enjoyed themselves and were very dedicated. One was the patriarch of a family where all the kids were also in. He had been a senator or congressman in another state prior to retiring. I left while he was still on lines.

    I did not audit any of the ECT cases, but did audit a person who had a history of institutionalization and had been on thorazine, etc. That was a challenge for a new Cl IV - but it appears this person is still in, from looking at the online completions list. Not sure how that would be allowed given what I've heard from those in the CO$ since, but perhaps since a clear attest was achieved while on mission lines, more service was allowed?

    Generally, the expectations of such pcs were not high, because they had had so many failed help attempts in the past, but they were grateful for the help they were given.

    They also did very well on the TRs - everyone took a very long on the comm course, as it was run very hard.
  20. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    FREET 43
    Generally, the expectations of such pcs were not high, because they had had so many failed help attempts in the past, but they were grateful for the help they were given.

    They also did very well on the TRs - everyone took a very long on the comm course, as it was run very hard.


    Its obvious that TRs and objectives are in the ballpark of handling
    from what you say and basics.

    Looks like a lost tech here.

    The freezone may wish to take note, but probably havn't the structure to
    deal with such issues. Or not easily.