ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



Scientology explained

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Leon-2, Jan 1, 2015.

View Users: View Users
  1. Leon-2

    Leon-2 Patron Meritorious

    OK, So I have a reputation here of being outside of the mainstream of thought on this board. Whereas most others have "left Scientology" - left it but unable to let go of it - I still openly declare that I am still very much a Scientologist. Not in the narrow sense advocated by the CofS but in a much broader sense, encompassing the entire context of Scientology as well.

    Anyway, as my 2015 New Year opening gambit, I have decided to provide a question and answer service. If there is any aspect of Hubbardian Scientology that makes no sense to you or seems not to fit in with the rest of it the I will gladly explain it to you as best I can in plain English.

    Equally if your question is about something which is a product of Hubbard's or the CofS's having other fish to fry then I will say so openly.

    As an aside, what has really prompted me to start this thread - I had reason yesterday to re-listen to Jason Beghe's interview with that guy - the "show me a fucking OT" interview, and I spotted that most of the questions he was stuck on had quite straightforward answers which I would have handled him on right there when they came up - had I been in the Org there. But the guys who handled him were such morons that they stuffed it up.

    So ask away. I will answer. What do you want to know?
     
  2. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    I'm breaking my moratorium on posting here to say, "This is an offer too good to refuse."
    Good stuff, Leon. :)
     
  3. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    Why are these people dead after becoming involved with $cientology?
    http://www.xenu-directory.net/mirrors/www.whyaretheydead.net/
     
  4. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Leon-2, then define OT
     
  5. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    What (if anything) do you believe can be achieved by way of using Scientology that cannot be achieved through other means?
     
  6. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    Oh that's just typical of you! Where's the cheese? Huh?

    Yeah....that's what I thought. No answer.

    Just crawl back to your Panda den. For shame! :melodramatic:
     
  7. Leon-2

    Leon-2 Patron Meritorious



    Good one. I could add a few more to that list.

    They are dead because they got themselves involved in a sicko cult that reckoned it had an entitlement to other people's labour and servitude and needed to give nothing in return, other than the bare necessities of life. Any demands in excess of that indicated - to them - that the slave was a down-stat, out-ethics and should be shunned and/or expelled ASAP. "So they died? So what? It's just a body. Goddam piece of shit should have gotten his stats up."

    That's why they're dead.
     
  8. Leon-2

    Leon-2 Patron Meritorious

    Gib's question will be next but I'm going for a walk on the beach now.
     
  9. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation




    So, you are going to explain the difference between the cultic aspects and the tech?


    PS Happy New Year Panda, it's good to hear from you.
     
  10. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    ...


    The perfect question!

    My guess is that Leon will cleverly slip in a non-Hubbard, non-Scientology definition of his own for "OT". And therefore what he calls Scientology will not in fact be Scientology at all, but instead Leonology.

    I have never once seen a Scientologist ever demonstrate OT. Unless they use their own made-up definition for it.

    If they use the Hubbard definition of 'Operating Thetan', they simply cannot do it--but they are experts at drowning other people in words talking about the wonders and miracles of OT.

    Okay, Leon, it's your turn--dazzle us!
     
  11. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    I agree with this answer, but it's only half true!
    Here is my answer to FBM

    The other half is that the sicko cult has sacred scriptures (Ron hubbard pseudo tech) wich dictates how to ''handle'' people, life, problems and any issue. So Lisa M was handled per the sacred scriptures, like thousands of people worldwide who, day after day, encounter mental breakdown for such application of pso-called pseudo tech (processing and ethics , RPF on them).

    This process, called introspection rundown, consist of depriving people of any human right, righ to communicate, right to freedom, locking them up into a small space and leave them in isolation, giving them psychiatric drugs, watch and guard them from escape and release them only when they promess they can deserve to be trusted and conduct them the way they are expected to conduct themselve. They are deprived of any medical help to get investigations ad proper medical treatment of such mental issues.


    Otherwise, no matter how they are doing, they won't be released.
    The more they scream and try to escape\recover their basic rights, the more they will be confined to a very small space....

    This is a piece of religious assistance and tech application of $cientology.
    Any ''minister of the cult\auditor'' learn to apply this process to any ''parishionner\pc'' going crazy after years of midfuck. Also you are expected to pay for such baby watch and emprisonment.

    Lisa M is not an isolated case - she is one of the thousands we never hear about- in the cult or in the independant field if such tech is applied. Their spouse, children, parents, whoever, despite knowing there is something wrong, won't rescues their relative not to get the ''religious rage'' onto them - which is always very much costly.....

    I, like many here, was involved in depriving these people of their rights with any means like
    - running the processes as an auditor,
    - ordering ithe process as the C\S,
    - guarding them locked up, (as a good $cientologist lossing his mind)
    - or administer them drugs to keep them asleep.

    We did apply the tech, 100% on source, without any sens of critical mind we had replaced by pseudo scientific cultist mindfuck - in or out of the CO$. But we have been good $cientologists in good standing, saving the planet....
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2015
  12. R2-45

    R2-45 Silver Meritorious Patron

    Do the freight trains on Venus run on time?

    If so, why did hubbard almost get run down by one?

    Was he PTS?

    Who was the who? What was the why? Or was it all a lie?
     
  13. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Faux therapy explained.



    A person getting into scientology for any reason at all will, after a while, almost certainly be disappointed and disillusioned.

    The exception (assuming they've cleverly managed to avoid any cultic glue) is someone who gets involved purely to study and operate as an auditor because when they become disappointed and disillusioned they can just blithely wander out the door ... and still operate as an auditor, if that is what they choose to do.

    IOW they can dump the cult, continue to pretend to be therapist and laugh and sneer at everyone else.

    Such is life.





     
  14. Helena Handbasket

    Helena Handbasket Gold Meritorious Patron

    Are you KSW? Or do you accept alternate tech too? CBR? Pilot? Custom (squirreled!) processes like my Stupid Cupid Rundown?

    Helena
     
  15. arcxcauseblows

    arcxcauseblows Patron Meritorious

    all of the scientology materials were leaked online decades ago why would someone need another interpretation?
     
  16. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Re: Faux therapy explained.

    The auditor is the most valuable being on the planet.

    Ron said it. Auditors believe it.

    Auditors handle degraded beings.

    [​IMG]


    Fuckers! (I don't like charlatans messing with nature's perfection--children)
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2015
  17. Leon-2

    Leon-2 Patron Meritorious

    Cold and windy on the beach.

    OK, now for Gibs' question. It's an important one. What is Clear and OT and where the fuck are they? {I'm just quoting Jason, not swearing}

    Just think back to 1949 or so and put yourself in Hubbard's shoes for a moment. He sincerely (I do believe) reckon that he had "discovered" the workings of the mind and he was getting good results from the work he was doing with his clients. He was on to something BIG. He'd found engrams and locks and grief incidents and all this stuff and had observed reactivity in people and this explained what was causing that and he had a way of erasing it all. Wow!

    From here it is an easy step to wonder what would one be like if one were totally free of ALL such engrams and reactivity? That would be a real super-being. Surely. At the very least he or she would be cleared of all reactivity and would be free to use the full amount of inherent life-energy in the pursuit of their goals. What would one call such a person? A Clear! Yeah! That's a good name for it. A Clear.

    Recognize that at this stage he never even had one yet. And factually he never knew whether he could even attain such a state in anyone. But, in theory, it should be possible. So he marketed it. Figure out the details later. Now one can call that a con if one wants to. Or maybe just as excess of chutzpah. Whatever, people bought it and so he sold it. People certainly wanted it.

    But how to get it? And how to know when one had it? These remained unanswered questions.

    Free of all engrams. Free of Fac-One. Free of this, of that, of the other thing. Each one looked promising when he first got someone there, none of them panned out in the long run. Always the goalposts receded. But he kept at it.

    How to define it? Didn't know that either. Tried all sorts of definitions to see if he could attain one of them. Never did except temporarily.

    You see, essentially he was trying to define a not-thereness. And how does anyone define that? How do you describe anything that is not there? It can't be done. I can define a pencil as being whatever, but to define an absence of a pencil? How to describe a not-there-ness? Can't really be done.

    And then the idea of OT came to him. He had people who were exteriorised - "there's my body. I'm here". So you're not a body, you're a spirit of some equally undefinable qualities describable only by saying what it isn't. But what is it? Not this, not that, not the other thing.
    But, in theory again, this spirit should be able to function without a body. But how to get someone who could be shown able to be so? Where to find such a one? Or how to transform someone through auditing so that he was such a being. How to do that?

    And every now and again he had someone who could do it once. Or twice. And then not again. I myself was fully ext with full visio. I saw my body in the chair over there. No shadow of doubt about it. And then it was gone again and I was in the body once more, looking through its eyes. I have done this many times over the years but it has never lasted long. Never so I could go touring or anything. But I have no doubts as to the reality of it.

    So "show me a fucking Clear", says Jason. Can't.

    Did they ever exist? Oh yes. Momentarily. Even now on a good day I'm as clear as can be. Bu don't try and measure it. That will interiorise me and it'll be gone. It manifests only for as long as you don't try and prove it's there.


    Pilot actually said it right. he had his finger right on it. The wins of Scientology can be divided into three groups.

    Group one is the way things just go better for one. One gets to be more "lucky". It can't be measured nor can one point to a process that brought it about. It happens as a by-product of getting into the subject. Most people notice this change.

    Next are the gains to be made on the Lower Grades - IF DONE PROPERLY. Which is not difficult. These gains are easy to produce, they last a long time, and they truly are the best of Scientology.

    And the there are the "OT Levels" which, IF DONE PROPERLY, will provide the guy with some great experiences. Ext perception and all sorts of things. But they are elusive and come and go at a whim. They don't last long. Don't try and hold it, don't expect to be able to demonstrate them to others, don't try to prove it in any way.

    Is it all a con? Maybe. I don't know. For some people it sure was, but in all of them I will show you outnesses in their auditing. If that means anything. You pay all you've got and you get what you get.

    In all my years I paid the CofS, I think, less than about $2,000. I paid a bit for Excalibur. The rest I did solo all by myself and still continue to do. Was it worth it? I will do it all again. Gladly. Wouldn't have missed it for anything.
     
  18. Leon-2

    Leon-2 Patron Meritorious


    I accept anything that produces case-gain.
     
  19. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    Could a train even function on Venus? That would be impossible, even if we were in "agreement" ;)

    The answer is part of why Venus is so bright in the night sky: its atmosphere. The “air” is extremely dense, more than 95% made of gaseous CO2, the rest is nitrogen. This means that Venus keeps much of its heat energy trapped, and being about a quarter-billion kilometres closer to the Sun than the Earth is, it has a lot more heat available to trap. Surface temperatures can easily push 700°C (1300°F), and Venus actually has a higher average temperature than Mercury, which lies much closer to the sun. If you’re looking for a sort of “worst case scenario” for the greenhouse effect, just look to Venus.

    What would a train look like on a track, when it's 1,400 degrees outside? Yes, and it rains sulfuric acid, too. Sulfuric acid condenses and rains down from the upper atmosphere, but this tends to evaporate well before it hits the surface of the planet. You know you’re in a bad neighborhood when the lethal heat saves you from the lethal weather. Okay, so it has a a thick, super-heated, acidic atmosphere. Big deal!

    Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C, or 2500°F. And I'm sure that people have a much lower melting point.

    Oh, LaFayette. Liar, liar, train on fire!

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Helena Handbasket

    Helena Handbasket Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: Faux therapy explained.

    No, they don't. Policy is to get DB's out of there as quickly as possible.

    Helena, with her memoirs of an ex-degraded being