ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



Scientology is all bad

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Veda, Aug 5, 2012.

View Users: View Users
  1. Caroline

    Caroline Patron Meritorious

    It's a mind bender all right. In stitching together Hubbard's theory, the entities with long histories as Earth beings are not thetans but "Genetic Entities."

    Here's a little more from A History of Man:

    Techies "in the know" wouldn't be running incidents that go far back on Earth/Teegeeack. Here's a familiar reference that often was used for recruitment or ego-stroking when I was in:

    If Earth incidents do come up outside of the prescribed time reference, ownership would be assigned to a GE, or, at the advanced levels, to a BT or cluster.

    Life here on Teegeeack, among all the GEs/animated clusters can seem incredibly foreign to advanced Scientologists who "decided to get born again this time."
     
  2. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    With all these various definitions of Clear , from 1950 to present, it is of interest to note that the "EP" as stated by every one of those who went "Clear" is the very same, from person to person.

    Every single one of them has stated in session " I am mocking up my reactive mind". Could be worded a bit differently according to context, but will be " I mocked it up", or "I mocked up my reactive mind".

    I'm not sure whether past tense or present tense is the requirement, but the words "mock up", used as a verb, are the same thu the years.

    Lots and lots of ppl attested to Clear, and their folders were culled for that statement. If it wasn't found, they were deemed not to be Clear and their Clear status was cancelled.

    Auditors and FES'ers were instructed to circle the "I am mocking it up" stmt in the folder and return to C/S.

    There were other criteria as well, such as a TA F/N, but that was after 1978, iirc.

    phenomanon
     
  3. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    No I don't think Ingo was spying on Scientology.

    I don't know that much about Pat Price.

    What foolishness are you speaking of?

    Probably because he didn't have any.
     
  4. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    I would disagree that it is necessarily 'less'. That's your assessment, not mine.


    Mark A. Baker
     
  5. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    It's fully explained in BT Theory, lol.

    The PC isn't the person who has OT3 as an incident, it's dem pesky BTs. They've been around a lot longer per the paradigm. The theory about the "whole track" pictures is that they don't really belong to the PC at all, they are BT pictures misowned by the PC.

    NB: Explaining this stuff, not promoting it.
     
  6. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Oh, I think the confusion started much earlier than that, back around 1950 would be my guess. :biggrin:
     
  7. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    I hope this clears it up for you.

    "...people were ferried here by the billions [from other planets which looked remarkably like Earth circa 1950s/1960s]... in boxes, and stacked around, and the people who were on this planet already just caught it in the teeth...

    "...[Thetans] put in front of projection machines with sound and color pictures. First gave them the implant which you know as the Clearing Course, and the whole track implanted which you know as OT 2. After this, however... the remainder of the 36 days, the bulk of it is taken up with a super colossal motion picture.... five pictures to five words, and we have the full record of what it is..."

    Well, you can listen to these excerpts...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_gfcNJkZDY
     
  8. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    Hmmm . . . we know that the Xenu story is a literal truth in Scientology. But, since its only being directed at the Body Thetans, is it necessary for the Scientologist to actually believe the story so as to be able to "duplicate" it correctly?
     
  9. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Yes, but the Scientologists were in a nice tight trance with the mid/late 1960s to late 1970s Grade Chart, and Hubbard's (post FBI raid) obsession with "numbers of Clears" and the "reputation of Dianetics," led to his butchering the middle Grade Chart, and that, for some of us, ever so slightly, began to break the trance, and I watched my fellow Scientologists immediately agree - with super "VGIs" - with the latest arrived HCOB, which completely reversed what they had firmly believed before - also with super "VGIs" - and they were sooooo delighted!

    For me, watching the Dianetic Clear frenzy, as a then off-lines public person, plus stumbling across a copy of the blood red (exact same color as the tech volumes) 'Book of the Law', began my irreversible exit from Scientology.

    At that point, I could no longer deny to myself that Hubbard was "doing something else" other than he had proclaimed publicly - That he had a hidden agenda.
     
  10. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    He has to believe that he has oodles of BTs in and around his body that have been implanted with Incident 1 and Incident 2, and that these BTs need to have their little Body Thetan faces pushed into these Incidents so the BTs can re-experience them and blow.

    However, if you listen, according to Hubbard, the "36 days," includes the CC Implants, the OT 2 Implants, and the OT 3 BT-implanting.
     
  11. R6Basic

    R6Basic Patron Meritorious

    Just figured out what Scn. is all about. I mean what, in its own mind (if Scn. had a mind) what it is mainly about.

    This is a significant realization because I was in it for about 6 years and out for over 10. During this thread I was finally able to piece a couple things together.

    What's suppose to happen.

    1. Person gets Clear. Then they don't have their "own reactive mind." Now Everything would have stopped right there except for "Incident I or maybe Incident II."

    2. Now the lucky clear is minus one reactive mind but still has thousands of BT's (who have reactive minds of their own maybe?) lurking about their body and they have to audit all of them.


    One remaining question I had was "Were we part of the Xenu Empire?" I guess not. Us humans were out running around on Earth then these BT's from (Marcabian empire?) got stuck to us. Cool.

    I now have one fictionalized time line settled.

    Here's a even more important one.

    According the Star Trek: Enterprise, the Klingons seemed to be more advanced then humans when first contact was made. But in Star Trek the original series, which happens after the Enterprise, the Klingon empire seems to have same technology as the Federation. Did the Klingon's slow down?

    Are Klingons, Vulcans and Romulans related?

    When did the Prime directive come about?

    Why did they never put seat belts in a constellation class ship? All most every episode has the crew getting knocked out of their seats but no one thought to install seat belts. Hoshi even suggested it on an early episode.


    These kinds of questions are very important to consider and get answered.
     
  12. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    I don't want to pick on Ingo, but here he is, with other Scientology OTs, in late 1976, chatting - in subtle terms - about no longer having any more BTs. (The people at this special OT get-together were OT 3 or above).

    In a year or two, they'd all discover that they had lots and lots more BTs, with the announcement of NOTs. Zowie!

    My point is that everyone participating in Scientology, beyond a certain point, was foolish, including sophisticated "psychic" Ingo.

    http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runni...y_chick_corea_heber_jentzsch_ot_symposium.php
     
  13. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    You're forgetting about the implants of OT 2. OT 2 was released before OT 3 existed. :)
     
  14. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    Well, you certainly do seem to be an expert on the state of Clear.

    Are you a Clear?

    What abilities specifically did you attain that are not evidenced or attained by wogs who have no connection or familiarity with Hubbard's Clearing tech?
     
  15. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    The State of Clear that some insist is a real thing, is so far removed from what Hubbard claimed it be that there seems to me little point in using the term, at all.

    State of Zblig?

    State of Oog?

    (Stand by for the David Mayo doc to be posted.)

     
  16. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    Arguing about whether or not there is a state of Clear, and what the abilities might be, is not unlike arguing about what the PH of Alien's acid blood might be or how long Neo from Matrix can live.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    People are arguing over FICTIONAL characters, things and events. :confused2:

    THAT is what much of Scientology is. It is largely make-believe. Watching people take it seriously is quite funny.

    It is like watching a young child role playing his or her favorite cartoon character or action game character. They really get into it. They really assume the beingness. They become the character.

    THAT is what Scientologists do. They familiarize themselves with an entire fictional scenario, filled with make-believe histories, events and abilities, and then they PRETEND to BE these things.

    The problem, of course, is that the players do not know that they are ROLE PLAYING! They actually believe the fictions.

    Now, there is nothing wrong with imaginatively discussing the characters of fictional stories, just for the sake of "what if", but most people who are involved with role playing games stop playing the game after a period of play. They go and live life and do OTHER things. The game is only a part of ones whole varied life.

    In Scientology, it is a role playing game that pretends NOT to be a role playing game. And, there is no time out or turning the game off. It embraces and claims to underlie ALL life.
     
  17. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    Exactly!

    And here are some other choices for games to play:

    http://www.mudconnect.com/mud_category.html
     
  18. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    There are a few things that always cracked me up about Scientology "gains".

    First, you were always routed to the Examiner and HAD to "attest".

    Second, you HAD to write the required glowing over-exagerrated Success Story.

    Now, it is firm Scientology/Hubbard policy that any False Report is deserving of a Condition of Treason. False attests were viewed in exactly the same way.

    You are not allowed to later change your mind and decide that, "ummm, I don't think that I was really Clear". If you do that, then in typical Scientology form, YOU get attacked as being GUILTY of a false attest! :duh:

    You are guilty of a CRIME if you change your mind. You have to STAND ON and STICK WITH whatever abilities or gains you claimed to have had. And, if you don't feel that you have them later, you HIDE that, and PRETEND that you do. I noticed THAT mechanism all of the time while involved with Scientology and Scientologists.

    Here is another weirdness of the whole ability-gained process. Let's say you just blew out on processes from Grade Zero, and you go and attest to this:

    The ability to communicate with anyone on any subject.

    Now, really, in all honesty, you have NO IDEA whether you truly possess this ability. You have not had ANY TIME to go out and "test" this in real life. You simply "feel that you do". And, the nutty Scientology setup forces you to ATTEST NOW, mainly because you feel good.

    Another crazy aspect in this is that MOST PEOPLE "get better at things", and develop abilities through hard work and practice. One gets better by study. But, to think that SUDDENLY, just by answering some questions in an auditing room, that someone will miraculously gain this ability, with NO WORK OF ANY KIND AT ALL, is preposterous.

    But, yes, THAT is Scientology - preposterous.
     
  19. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    The ONLY definition of ' Clear' that can hold any water is:

    A Clear is someone who thinks they are a Clear.
     
  20. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    Which of course involves 100% total SUBJECTIVITY.

    So much of Scientology is subjectivity pretending to be what it is not.

    Personal fiction parading as some sort of "objective truth".