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Scientology is Anti-Human

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by well_that_sucked, May 30, 2009.

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  1. well_that_sucked

    well_that_sucked Patron with Honors

    I believe $cientology and its tech are designed to remove one's humanity and individual purpose in life and replace them with manufactured insanity for the sole purpose of furthering the cults agenda.

    The ultimate goal of the scientology cult tech are the oatee levels. These levels require a break from the realities of life and all that we have learned as a species.

    How much of an individual's humanity must be removed/displaced to become oatee?

    The evil of scientology can convince people that they are infested with the souls of imaginary dead aliens. Deluded victims are further convinced they can communicate with these imaginary space ghosts and rid themselves of the infestation with mental karate chops. (HIGH-YAH!)

    This deliberate goal of displacing a victims's sanity with cult psychosis is evil and anti human and is just one example of how the scientology cult and its tech is an enemy of the human race.
     
  2. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    Scientology is Pro-Human

    I believe Scientology and its tech are designed to deepen peoples connection to the core values that some describe as human. Understanding of others, compassion and helping those who need, and freedom from the suffering of life.

    The ultimate goal of the scientology tech is a person who is free of their past. And who knows how and why thier past effected them and how to avoid the same mistakes in the future.

    Scientology can show a person how they are connected to others and to life in general, both as a person, a composite of body mind and spirit, and as a spiritual being alone.

    The goal of scientology is similar to the goals of religions and practices through the ages, to free the spirit from the bounds of meat and mud.
     
  3. well_that_sucked

    well_that_sucked Patron with Honors

    Do these OTs appear to be free of their past? With all the Nazi Nazi Nazi chants they seem to be stuck in the 1940's or 1950's and have lost their fucking minds. This is what scientology and its technology does to people. Its turns them into Ronbots

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QGDxnrYqKg
     
  4. uncle sam

    uncle sam Silver Meritorious Patron

    I do not think.....

    that I'm any crazier than any other so called normal person. I did do the OT levels in the early 70's and did not like them. Actually - I almost cried when I read the OT 3 materials but since you are with another person when you read the data- I did not cry. Disappointment is what I experienced -- it was not what I expected. Within a year I withdrew from the cos and restarted my life-none worse the wear in my opinion. I guess for some of us the OT levels were just a "joke" and we did not take it all to seriously --- but I certainly can see that - if one did really believe in this stuff and tried to make oneself "better" as a result--then maybe the "joke" turned into a "nightmare" of significant proportion.
     
  5. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill


    I had, when I was first involved, thought that the idea was to transcend the human condition. But, I agree with some of what you say. I've seen humanity and human-ness derided repeatedly in Hubbard's writings and by church practice.
     
  6. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    Well, that's an accurate repetition of Scientologys PR spiel for the unsuspecting public...

    What a crock! - What a shameless stinking lie!

    As a matter of fact Alex.. I don't believe you are that naive?

    When I was a fireeating scientologist I wasn't. I was aware that PR hype was PR hype...

    :yes:
     
  7. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Alex is neither naive nor ignorant, nor dumb. Disingenuous; intellectually dishonest; partisan; dedicated; on a mission? Yes.

    Zinj
     
  8. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Perhaps Alex is talking about the ology more than about the group...
     
  9. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    Funny that. My first reading of OT3 was a light bulb moment. It tied together dianetics and scientology. It was the thing that made a whole of the subject for me. It wasnt what I had expected either, but immediately indicated.

    I now think that ot3 is somewhat of a model rather than the exact explanation, not that the incident isnt there, but the model for thinking of attached entities leaves some room for improvement.

    I can certainly understand what a crock of shit it must seem to someone for whom it was not real or even believable.

    Good than you were none the worse for the wear.
     
  10. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    Alas, I am, although once they were closer to the same.
     
  11. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

    Sorry Alex I have to say it again....

    In my relationship to many Scientologists in over 33 years I never observed any of this great results of the Tech. In fact I can say that it is true that most Scientologists are getting less human the deeper they are involved in this "Pyramid scheme".

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9er239WAXow

    This is only my opinion but it is based on a very long and detailed observation of the real results in life.

    Love

    Markus
     
  12. HolyCow

    HolyCow Patron with Honors

    Every successful con knows that you have to insert just enough truth to hide the lies, just enough true benefit to hide the full harm.

    We all got sucked in because we wanted to be better and wanted our surrounding world to be better.

    Anytime you get into a group with similar good intentions, ready. willing and able to confront your own weaknesses, talk about them, deal with them, you are going to absolutely have some kind of benefit. some will last, some won't.

    Ironically, it is the perceived benefits we all experienced that screwed us up, blinded us, kept us longer than we should have stayed.

    If you study something like Stockholm Syndrome, it may prove very, very helpful in understanding what happened and why.

    I personally think anyone who got into Scientology was someone a rank above those who are clueless, or irresponsible, or too challenged to at least try to make things better.

    What we all share is a sincere and deep sense of loss for what we all thought would at least be a better and more successful way to achieve all the above.

    For all the glorious "stated" intentions, just insert "money" instead and do your logics's series to absolutely any conflicting statements, stats, stories, events, etc. Dehumanizing is just a symptom.:yes:
     
  13. I came to the same conclusion Markus.

    I am in touch everyday with people who claim the title of OT. In my opinion they are to be pitied.

    They seem to be robotic shells who all agree that there is one cause behind every problem and situation.

    They pretend they have certainty about the fundamentals of life while they hide their fear of other people.

    They generally lack compassion, scorn knowledge, believe in conspiracies that boggle the mind.

    I had one OT III tell me that he finally saw "the letter". I asked him what letter he was talking about. He was surprized that I didn't know about "the letter." He said it is the letter that proved the Jews were behind World War II.

    I had another OT VIII tell me the trouble in the Middle East won't resolve until world leaders realize that the cause is third-partying by space aliens.

    I had another OT IV come from session and calmly tell me that he has finally figured out a way to get rid of all the undersirables in this country.

    I had an OT VII neighbor come knocking on my door and accuse me and my wife of stealing her underwear!

    Of course, all of them like to tell me the incredible wins they have and how wonderfull the tech is.

    Sure there are exceptions. But these are OTs, not new comm course graduates.

    There is an insidious feel about the whole thing. Not just from the bizarre statements, but the fact that these people are involved in a totalitarian system which indoctrinates them, and that it is happening right in the middle of an open and pluralistic society. Very strange.

    What good is becoming OT if there are no actual OT abilities and it means you may lose your heart and soul?

    The Anabaptist Jacques
     
  14. HolyCow

    HolyCow Patron with Honors

    You can read my post above yours. but maybe this will help explain: When people get up to OT levels, after all it took for them to get there, I think it's kind of a what's known as post traumatic stress syndrome.
    For some, it's the ultimate wake up shock and they get the hell outta there, licking their wounds. But for some, the realization of the scam and all that they've vested, sacrificed, (and honestly, all they shouldn't have done) is just too much. They dive into a black hole and dig their heels in. It's really a mental breakdown. What you describe can easily be identified in Stockholm Syndrome.
    On the OT levels you find out that in essence you are a walking, talking perpetuating dramatization of Elron's schizo paranoid nightmares, and nothing more.
    Those who dig in must surround themselves with others like them. They cannot function wholly, or for long, in the real world for obvious reasons.
    Why do you think each person has what amounts to a psychotic break if you even hint such a thing?
     
  15. Markus I disagree with you in regards to Scientology being a Pyramid scheme, in a Pyramid scheme, the income from new investors is used to pay dividends to the existing investors, until it is no longer sustainable. If you get out of a Pyramid scheme soon enough you can actually make money, where as in Scientology you have no chance of winning, the existing members just get screwed more and more from the day they take the personality test until the day they finally wake up.
     
  16. Yeah.
    I think it the agregate effect of Scientology training and processing and even the Scientology culture makes a person more and more monoideaistic.

    By that I mean they can only foucs on one simple explanation for what they see and hear.

    They lose their ability to consider many factors or ideas.

    They can only imagine one why, one cause, one who, for all of the situations they encounter in life.

    Scientology does this to them and thereby acts as a substitute for understanding and rather than increasing their capacity for understanding, it diminishes their capacity for understanding.


    I think this quote applies to them:
    "Men who do not know what is true of things take care to hold fast to what is certain, so that, if they cannot satisfy their intellects by knowledge, their wills at least may rest on consciousness." from Giambattista Vico's "New Knowledge" written in 1725

    The Anabaptist Jacques
     
  17. HolyCow

    HolyCow Patron with Honors

    Ha! I'm an old timer, old fart and while I think I understand what you're saying, let me take the complexity out of it all:
    There's all kinds of schemes of dreams, and always a new one waiting around the corner. But every single human being knows the answer: Common sense and doing what's right. If parents practice common sense and doing what's right before they have kids, and while they are raising kids, sorry, but it's that simple. In any country, culture, religion or whatever.
    And if adults apply common sense and doing what's right even if their parents did or didn't do, then all will be alright.
    Simplistic? Sure, but true? Yep. All the ills and problems of politics, economy and you name it can be traced to family upbringing and education when bolstered by common sense and doing what's right.
    I've lived long enough and experienced enough to learn that what my grandparents taught me was true.
    There is No substitute for the above and it is simple. The problems that ensue when it's not followed may be complex, but the solutions are still that simple. Anyone trying to convince you it isn't is either a con or incompetent.
    I've said it before, if you want to help yourself and make the world better, join something like Big Brothers and Big Sisters or some equivalent helping kids. Period.
     
  18. I agree with what you are saying. I am an old timer too. But I want to point out that I am talking not just about simple common sense, I am talking about diminishing a person's capacity to even use common sense.

    Also, just as a side note, the world of our parents and grandparents were much more screwed up than the world today. There are such things as complexities. But I agree with you that the way to fix it all is through helping and educating children.

    The Anabaptist Jacques
     
  19. HolyCow

    HolyCow Patron with Honors

    Ah, I might be able to have a lively debate with you about past generations. But I do understand and agree with you wholeheartedly, actually. Here's one of my posts above.
    Believe me, I don't underestimate the horrendous and criminal aspect of brainwashing, which is just one of many crimes. You are absolutely right. And I'm happy to hear that you understand about the kids thing. Jeez, it is so missing right now.
    "You can read my post above yours. but maybe this will help explain: When people get up to OT levels, after all it took for them to get there, I think it's kind of a what's known as post traumatic stress syndrome.
    For some, it's the ultimate wake up shock and they get the hell outta there, licking their wounds. But for some, the realization of the scam and all that they've vested, sacrificed, (and honestly, all they shouldn't have done) is just too much. They dive into a black hole and dig their heels in. It's really a mental breakdown. What you describe can easily be identified in Stockholm Syndrome.
    On the OT levels you find out that in essence you are a walking, talking perpetuating dramatization of Elron's schizo paranoid nightmares, and nothing more.
    Those who dig in must surround themselves with others like them. They cannot function wholly, or for long, in the real world for obvious reasons.
    Why do you think each person has what amounts to a psychotic break if you even hint such a thing?"
     
  20. HolyCow

    HolyCow Patron with Honors

    Ah, I might be able to have a lively debate with you about past generations. But I do understand and agree with you wholeheartedly, actually. Here's one of my posts above.
    Believe me, I don't underestimate the horrendous and criminal aspect of brainwashing, which is just one of many crimes. You are absolutely right. And I'm happy to hear that you understand about the kids thing. Jeez, it is so missing right now.
    "You can read my post above yours. but maybe this will help explain: When people get up to OT levels, after all it took for them to get there, I think it's kind of a what's known as post traumatic stress syndrome.
    For some, it's the ultimate wake up shock and they get the hell outta there, licking their wounds. But for some, the realization of the scam and all that they've vested, sacrificed, (and honestly, all they shouldn't have done) is just too much. They dive into a black hole and dig their heels in. It's really a mental breakdown. What you describe can easily be identified in Stockholm Syndrome.
    On the OT levels you find out that in essence you are a walking, talking perpetuating dramatization of Elron's schizo paranoid nightmares, and nothing more.
    Those who dig in must surround themselves with others like them. They cannot function wholly, or for long, in the real world for obvious reasons.
    Why do you think each person has what amounts to a psychotic break if you even hint such a thing?"