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Scientology is Anti-Human

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by well_that_sucked, May 30, 2009.

  1. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    You called him a lot of names here. And I haven't called anyone any names. I haven't stooped to the use of ad homs. Having a certain philophical position and being candid about it does not constitute a breach of the rules of conduct, nor does it equate to the use of ad hominems.

    I've also defended people who didn't like Scn at all- on forums. I've also written many posts criticizing the cult, Hubbard, Miscavige, elements of Scn, etc, etc. But you did not mention that.
  2. well_that_sucked

    well_that_sucked Patron with Honors

    No ad homs, but you will defend scientology and fz tech without any concern for the victims here that have been abused, confused, disconnected, scammed, ruined and destroyed by the mind warping life destroying technology you luuuuuv and defend.

    It appears you believe your "right" to be a cult tech defender supersedes compassion and empathy.

    I'd rather have someone call me names.
  3. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    I "defend" anything I think is good. And if I don't think it's good, then I don't defend it. Freedom of speech is the thing.

    People who are interested in Scn are not prohibited from posting on this forum, nor are they enjoined from posting about their interests. In fact, there even are sections of this board set up just for that. So if you don't think that should occur, then I'm not the one you should be talking to.

    I've written many posts about the harm CofS does, about freeloader debts, disconnection and other things.
  4. Bee Sting

    Bee Sting Patron with Honors

    Oh my, Alex!

    Ah, so you are a "techy?" Scientology has served you well. Very clever and you can dance, too.

    Ok! I'll stand corrected with my question on how you feel. Thank you for clearing that up. So, then there are stupid actions of *Scientology* that confuse people between the philosophy as a subject and the church as group of people? Got that!

    *Scientology* - I assume you are referring to the body of Scientology as opposed to the people that make up the body, is that correct?

    Explain to me, how the concept of the subject (the philosophy) and why you do not consider it and how you do not consider it? What is the distinction?

    Reading through this post and your own references to your own posts, I may have an understanding how Scientology at times may be problematic. At times, I get the impression you do feel there are weaknesses within the Scientology organisation but have great belief that the philosophy is workable as different from organisation. Could you clear that up for me?

    It is nice to hear that you have not been the subject of abuse by or within the Church yet, still encountering a few bumpy rocks on the road. You are one the fortunate ones. Perhaps a contribution by your own design?

    Quite to the contrary, the resolution of dissolution to my marriage have been a happy one. :) Thank you and you're welcome!

    Now, I did read up on Asperges and I did not realize the connection to Autism but now I do. We live and learn but I still pity you because you do not acknowledge pain and sorrow. I know that you can understand pain and sorrow - theoratically - perhaps not emotionally? I disagree with your stating that you have happy and rich life.

    I believe there is something inside curiosity perhaps, or a yearning and that is what have brought you here, looking for a connection to something that you may not yet be able to understand but hope that you might? Aspergers or not, I think that you do have the ability to feel a little bit of empathy and I believe that you can. I am certain you know that you can.

    If you have the ability to realize that you will be fine if the Church crashed and not devastated, as emotionally disconnected you may think that statement is, it is not! It is an emotional feeling that spur the word "devastated" in the context that you expressed it and the reference that the concept will continue on in various form, is an expression from an emotional perspective.

    See, if there were no emotions attached to that last statement in you response to me, the expression to the failure of the Church would have been more as a "matter of fact" and a matter of fact reference to yourself being unharmed and untouched to that matter of fact, contrary to the word devastated which is emotional in nature.

    Aspereges or not, perhaps you have outgrown the condition? I think you here for a reason and that reason may not yet be clear. Can we define that?

    At any rate, theoratically dig this - Lets say, you witnessed a man with a gun in his hand threatening the life of someone to empty his or her pockets but then gunman pulled the trigger and shot the other person dead. The gunman was arrested and then the Judge asked the People what should be done with this man, hanged for his crime for shooting an innocent victim or let go because he was a pity, old starving man trying to feed his children?

    Many in the crowd may sympathize with his predicament, starving old man trying to feed his children and other wanting him hung because he had murdered an innocent person that happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. That's sort of like it is on this board but I am sure, you got that!


    Bee Sting
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2009
  5. CornPie

    CornPie Patron Meritorious

    And who cares if a FreeZone practitioner actually believes the Xenu story???
    I wouldn't want some (cOs or FZ) lunatic, to have access to my innermost secrets, in a PC folder -- if they actually believed the Xenu story. Who cares, you ask? They're a "lunatic" if they actually believe the Xenu story -- or a "con artist" if they don't believe it. Take your pick. You don't really think I'm going to tell my life story to these guys, so they can write it down, do you? ((Xenu the galactic warrior story; the invisible body thetans (BT's), the clusters, the overpopulation problem 75 million years ago, the DC-9's, the hydrogen bombs in the volcanoes.)) Tommy Davis of scientology says people who talk this way are religious bigots, I'm not sure what FZ says since they don't claim to be a religion. But who cares -- because the whole Xenu story is BS that hubbard-ass made up.

    They [FZ Practitioners] just don't do those [cOs corruption] things???
    How do you know? Ten seconds ago you said, "There isn't any one FZ. It's just individual practitioners." But now you sound like you know every one of them. We've already heard dozens of stories about filthy-scientology blackmailing people with the contents of their PC folders. Who's to say a FreeZoner won't be having a bad month, need the money, and do the same thing?
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2009
  6. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Some people do and have cited their belief in this as a problem. So that's why I wrote what I wrote.

    So don't go to a Freezone practitioner. Problem solved.

    If you don't like chocolate- don't eat it. If you don't like tv, don't watch it. If you don't like Scn, don't join the FZ.


    Because I know a lot of people who are FZ practitioners. I read the posts, I keep my ear to the ground. For one thing, there is no centralized body and that's the source of many of the abuses in CofS. And, as I said, I have a lot of "comm lines" out there.
  7. FinallyFree

    FinallyFree Gold Meritorious Patron

    Electro Shock Therapy.
  8. Bee Sting

    Bee Sting Patron with Honors

    Well, Alex that (above bolded) is an interesting statement. Where did you find that?

    And, eh, what precisely, is your intention with creating and co-creating the future in your vision? What is that vision? How do you see your role unfold in this effective creation?

    A vision as interpreted by your belief is that it precedes reality, hmm.. (Bee Sting is thinking....) Vision could be considered an aloof revelation of the imagination and reality is something that is neither derivative nor dependant but exist necessarily, a statement of fact or truth not belief. (Webster's Ninth Collegiate Dictorary, page 980, 2nd column, 8th word from the bottom up; REALITY)

    Now, how does vision preceed reality and effectively create or co-create the belief that you possess? Curious Bees would like to know.

    Spew, my dear Alex. Spew!


    Bee Sting
  9. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    With the encouragement of "spew".... can just read my 3000 some posts to understand what I am saying.

    I have discussed this topic at length and tangent.

    The bolded is my statement not a parroting.

    spew yourself.
  10. Bee Sting

    Bee Sting Patron with Honors

    Well, ....?

    That took less than two dozen with about half and a bit less for the latter. Your tune is as clear to the cord as you are playing the curve to the point.

    Parroting was not intended but curiosity arose how a mind such as yours contemplate that thought from what perspective? One’s own knowingness or perhaps from close encounters in deliberation with subjects that claim its source as their belief to truth or formed in conjunction relative to the above statements?

    Bees’ Sting! Alex’ spews. Touche’!


    Bee Sting

  11. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

  12. dexter gelfand

    dexter gelfand Patron Meritorious

    I see the light! Praise the lord!

    Thanks to such a cogently expressed, sane and devastatingly analytical point by point factual inarguable dissertation, I am logically forced to surrender my misguided beliefs, based merely on thousands of hours of actual personal experience, that there is any truth or value in all the Scientology and Dianetics tech I have applied, had applied to me, or observed being applied to others. All praise to you, WTS, for enlightening me through the persuasive power of your staggering intellect.Most impressive. I am saved!




  13. Bee Sting

    Bee Sting Patron with Honors

    Are you one? What's the name of the game?



    Bee Sting
  14. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

    This is crazy.....

    Is this a joke Alex? Calling Bee Sting a Troll is like telling everybody that the sun is cold or that rain is dry. It is like a father who is not interested in the feelings and the wellness of his sons and his daughter as long as he can help his crazy cult which in his believe will save this planet from all the evil.
    Please stop trying to tell me what Scientology is all about. I know it for sure.

    I posted the following song in another thread but I think this fits perfectly into this thread about how anti human Scientology is:

    "A friend of mine a few weeks ago told me that she believes that his MS and to die so very young was the only way for my brother Uwe Stuckenbrock in his fatal situation to escape from this stressfull life in this heartless cult.

    And today I found this song and I just want to leave it here for everybody just to think about it....."

    Quotes from this beautiful song:

    "...and how you suffered for your sanity.... they would not listen, they did not know how, perhaps they'll listen now...
    for they could not love you but still your love was true and when no hope was left inside on that starry starry night you took your life as lovers often do..."


    Last edited: Jun 12, 2009
  15. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    This "bee sting", a trollish sounding name to start with, characterizes my honestly given opinions as "spew". (#1 def: vomit)

    It also seems to want to interact with me to deconstruct my opinions in a negative fashion with out really engaging in countering with its own opinions.

    Thus I consider them a troll. Not someone interested in honest exchange.


    I saw van gogh's "Starry Night Over The Rhone" last year in the Musee D'Orsay....although not the more popular starry night...

    Don McLean.....

    "...and how you suffered for your sanity.... they would not listen, they did not know how, perhaps they'll listen now...
    for they could not love you but still your love was true and when no hope was left inside on that starry starry night you took your life as lovers often do..."

    Yes I feel that way too. And "how you tried to set them free.." which you omitted...I have my truth that I want to share. I am a believer.

    "There not listening now....Perhaps they never will...."

    But I'm really more at:

    Random angst. More questions than answers even if it seems the opposite, and getting drunk on the levee. Nihilist exisentianlism permanently living in the now.

    singing dirges in the dark....

    not looking back to see death sneaking up, tauting him with "this will be the day that I day"

    dats sum 'merican pie.

    Love back at 'cha
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2009
  16. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

    "It also seems to want to interact with me to deconstruct my opinions in a negative fashion with out really engaging in countering with its own opinions.

    Thus I consider them a troll. Not someone interested in honest exchange."
    Exactly this I would say about you Alex! Well think about it....
    In my opinion you are not able to listen and you are not interested in honest exchange. Not interested to understand the pain people have to feel because of the abusive Tech Hubbard invented in order to trap his followers.

    What do you call a "negative fashion"? If I would proof to you that LRH was a permanent liar and that my brother has died because of the dilettantism of the Tech he created - would that be enough that you would really start to think and accept that the Tech doesn't work to create a better world? Are you able and ready to confront that?

    Do you know the story of Bee Sting? Are you able to understand it? I think you are not! Simply because you are not able to feel as a "human" would feel. I know many Scientologits very personally. And I can tell you and all the world that this anti human behaviour is the result of your brainwashing cult and another proof to me that Scientology will never ever create a better world.
    For me it is a "negative fashion" to ignore the feelings of people which were hurt so deeply by your glorious Tech - it is the "Technology" of Mr. Hubbard which is so very abusive and is causing this disaster for so many people in this suppressive organisation. I was able to see this when I was 19 years old just by reading and comparing Hubbards writings and by looking exactly at the results for my life and the life of my family.
    Some day I will publish my "report" with all the facts about how Hubbards "technology" destroyed my family. I'm still working on it - but soon I will be ready.
    I wish you will find a way out of this trap soon - because in my opinion you are very deep caught in this lie.
    For me you are a poor soul and I hope that you will free yourself again one day.

    Much love

    Last edited: Jun 13, 2009
  17. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    "Simply because you are not able to feel as a "human" would feel. "

    If that helps you cope....believe it.

    We all live in unseen lies about who we are, and what we are capable of (or mostly, Not...)

    I dont believe Hubbard created what he did to entrap people. And as long as you do, little I say will make any sense to you.
  18. Ladybird

    Ladybird Silver Meritorious Patron

    I am listening Markus, and I am watching the Starry Night video every time you post it. I know you loved your brother and yet even you who could have and would have taken care of him and made his days and nights surrounded by love and care were prevented from knowing the truth about what his life was like while he was dying in the RPF feeling like and being told that it was all his fault.

    Uwe didn't get to see the stars at night or talk to his family and especially you, the brother who loved him. There are many Sea Org who have been in the cult and disconnected from their family for so long no one even looks for them anymore.

    So many broken hearts and so many broken families. Please, if anyone reading here has a loved one or family member lost in the cult of scientology please try to contact them and check on their welfare.

    Markus, Laurisse is a lost soul. The more I read about her the more I think Uwe was lucky to be rid of her and unlucky to have met her.


    Last edited: Jun 13, 2009
  19. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

    Oh Alex

    Have you ever tried to really - and I mean REALLY- look at all the informations about Scientology and Mr. Hubbard. I have done it. I have looked at all the informations from both sides, compared them all with the observations in my life in and with Scientology and my conclusion is that the Tech doesn't work, but that Hubbard managed to enslave people. This is my truth - you have your truth about Scientology. You are free to tell it here on this board but my brother was by LRH policy not free to tell his feelings and his opinions about his situation in this crazy cult or to get free information about his illness. Uwe per policy was not free to go when he wanted to leave the Sea Org. And there are about 30 more facts about how my family was hurt by your splendid world saving "technology".

    And it is typical for you not to answer my question if you have ever tried to understand Bee Stings feelings about her story in Scientology. You are not capable to feel as a human being - everybody can see this here very clearly. I had to feel the consequences of the results of Hubbards crazy body of thought for over 30 years now. I know what I'm talking about. It is all writen down by Mr. Hubbard. And you can read and understand it if you really want to. Just as all the Germans would have been able to read "Mein Kampf"
    from Adolf Hitler but not many were ready to see the consequences of this stupid body of thought for their country.

    You are not willing to look at ALL the facts - some of them are clearly "Entheta" for you - but even without this information you could see the truth about Scientology just by looking at the very bad results for many many people inside Scientology - Crimes and abuses caused clearly only by the writings of Mr. Hubbard.
    But as long as you are not willing to really look you will never be able to see this.
    As I said before for me you are very pitiable.

    But go on to argue against me - you are helping me a lot to get my message out to the world.


    Last edited: Jun 13, 2009
  20. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

    This has nothing to do with "believing" Alex. I know so many Scientologists and have observed how they act and think. I have seen what they have done with this behaviour and thinking to my mother, my sister, my brother Uwe, to one of my dearest relationships to a wonderful girl and to my halfbrothers. I know what I had to bear because of this heartless aliens all this years.
    Do your homework read Hubbards writings and look very closely at all the suppressive passages - you can find them - yes you can. You just have to turn the switch in the other direction. Good luck.

    Last edited: Jun 13, 2009