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Scientology is creating cold and heartless people

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Markus, Aug 12, 2009.

  1. Mystic

    Mystic Crusader

    Scientology is in the business of making serial-killer type of responses. This is seen as a money-making proposition, make money, make other make money and all that rot. It all begins by one taking on/accepting/self-inflicting the idea/belief you have "engrams" or a "past that holds you down" or a "time track" or "personality disorders" or a "case". These mindfuck ploys have worked to some degree, and, as they have no where else to go, they continue by putting on more and more PR shine...which is becoming rather easy to see through.
  2. EP - Ethics Particle

    EP - Ethics Particle Gold Meritorious Patron

  3. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    The problem, Mystic, is that they are mixing truth with fact. People do have memories. Some of these memories are troubling, and some contain things that we don't wish to confront or remember. When this is the case, "case" exists. Now, the Scientology understanding of it might be wrong, but the truth that people carry baggage around with them is what they are capitalizing on. It does no good to pretend it doesn't exist.
  4. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

    Two songs to describe the typical Scientologist affected behaviour

    Rüssel an Schwanz:

    Schwere Schritte rumpelnd rollen die Karawanen
    Tiefer in den Wald wir plätten die Platanen
    keiner weiß wieso wohin doch alle ahnen
    Hinter jeder Kurve goldene Bananen
    Voilà Inspiration
    In unserem Wimpernkranz bekriegen sich die Fliegen
    Wen stören die Käfer die uns in den Ohren liegen
    Wenn dicke Leiber sich in tiefem Frieden wiegen
    und breite Stirnen sich an breite Hintern schmiegen
    Voilà Integration
    Und du gehst Rüssel an Schwanz hinterher
    Trampelpfade Hintermann was brauchst du mehr
    Den Allerkleinsten die noch viel zu klein zum Tröten sind
    Muss man den Rüssel an den Vorderschwanz dranlöten blind-
    lings gehen sie sonst alle hundert Meter flöten
    und bringen im Unterholz die Schlangen zum Erröten
    Voilà Assimilation
    Bisschen suhlen bisschen buhlen bisschen Wedeln mit den Ohren
    Kurz geblinzelt Huch! den Anschluss schon verloren
    Ein bisschen flennen bisschen rennen und dann Rumms von hinten rein
    In die Verpassten Rüssel tasten fassen Quasten, rasten ein – fein
    Und du gehst Rüssel an Schwanz hinterher…

    Trunk to tail

    Heavy steps the rumpling caravans are rolling
    Deeper into the wood we flatten the plane trees
    Nobody knows why to where but everyone senses
    Behind every corner golden bananas

    Voilà [here is] inspiration

    In our ring of eyelashes the flies are at war with each another
    Who is disturbed by the bees who badger us [direct translation: who are in our ears]
    When fat bodies lull themselves in profound peace
    And broad foreheads nestle up to broad asses

    Voilà integration

    And you walk behind trunk to tail
    Dirt track backer what more do you need
    The most smallest that are way to small to
    Have to get their trunk soldered to the tail before them
    Blindly they go lost otherwise every hundred meters
    And make the snakes blush in the undergrowth

    Voilà assimilation

    To wallow a bit to court someone’s favour a bit to wave with the ears a bit
    Blinked shortly Uhh! Lost the track already
    To blubber a bit to run a bit and then, crush! into the back
    Into the missed tails grope grab tussels, lock in place – great

    And you walk after the others trunk to tail…

    Müssen nur wollen

    Muss ich immer alles müssen was ich kann
    Eine Hand trägt die Welt und die andere bietet Getränke an?
    Ich kann mit allen zehn Füßen in zwanzig Türen
    und mit dem elften in der Nase
    noch Ballette aufführen
    Aber wenn ich könnte wie ich wollte würde ich gar nichts wollen
    Ich weiß aber dass alle etwas wollen sollen -

    Wir können alles schaffen genau wie die tollen
    dressierten Affen wir müssen nur wollen
    wir müssen nur wollen wir müssen nur wollen
    Wir müssen nur

    Muss ich immer alles müssen was ich kann
    Eine Hand in den Sternen
    die andere im Hintern vom Vordermann?
    Das ist das Land der begrenzten Unmöglichkeiten
    Wir können Pferde ohne Beine rückwärts reiten
    Wir können alles was zu eng ist mit dem Schlagbohrer weiten
    Können glücklich sein und trotzdem Konzerne leiten

    Wir können alles schaffen genau wie die tollen
    dressierten Affen wir müssen nur wollen
    wir müssen nur wollen wir müssen nur wollen
    Wir müssen nur

    Just have to want

    Do I always have to have to everything that I can
    One hand carries the world and the other one offers drinks?
    I can with every ten feet in twenty doors
    And with the eleventh in the nose
    Perform ballets
    But if I could do as I can I would not want anything at all
    But I know that everyone has to want something –

    We can do everything just like the great / mad [the original meaning of “toll” was mad but nowadays it is mostly used as “great” – both interpretation seem possible here]
    Trained monkeys we just have to want
    We just have to want we just have to want
    We just have to

    Do I always have to have to everything that I can
    One hand in the stars
    And the other one in the ass of the man in front?
    This is the country of the bordered impossibilities
    We can ride horses without legs backwards
    We can dilate everything that is too narrow with the percussion drill
    We can be happy and nevertheless lead consolidated companies

    We can do everything just like the great / mad
    Trained monkeys we just have to want
    We just have to want we just have to want
    We just have to

    Well here we have so many ideas for words to describe this typical Sientologist behaviour like:

    "Tolle dressierte Affen" - "great trained monkeys"

    or "Rüssel an Schwanz" - "trunk to tail"
  5. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

    Yes Auntpat...

    ...they miss so much and yes heartless is one of the words I use very often when I have to describe the typical Scientologist behaviour. But I think there is more to it than just heartless.
    We could say "stone hearted robotic Spockians(or Aliens)" - that would fit very good.

    Last edited: Aug 13, 2009
  6. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

    A totally different emotion....

    ...but still this song is full of life. And I only feel pity for all the true believing Scientologists because they are controlled and suppressed by an organization in which children are forbidden and taboo.


  7. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    I like the Spockian word. Spock had a high moral concept, he would do the right thing even if it meant killing his family in the process. I think Sylar from Heroes is perhaps more accrate a Sea Org role model, though. Sylarian.

    As a sea org member you do the cold thing, your spouse wants to leave, so you drag him or her to the MAA. Your children dont want to be sea org members so you have them sec checked till they turn into Spocklets. or Sylarettes.

    I have worked for years now to kill my inner 'Sylar', I do have emotions, I can cry, I can empathise.

    But theres another sea org beingness, the cold anger, the tight white lipped uncontrollable anger, Now I dont get angry with people, I used to feel compelled to give people SRA's if they slowed me down, got in my way. Out FO 38! Getting angry used to be so easy, and was so emabarassing.

    Antagonism is high toned, so its acceptable, but crying is missemotion. Even if youre crying because youre so happy your baby survived birth! I suppose if your baby survies birth you should slap the midwife, and call her a stupid out ethics wog.:omg:
  8. Blue Spirit

    Blue Spirit Silver Meritorious Patron


    A couple of LRH quotes come to mind on this (paraphrased):

    He says that someone who can do something for the pure Fun

    of it is a very sane person.

    The following is an exact quote:

    "It sounds funny that a person who is very serious is liable to fall short on his

    ethics. He is more likely to go into a moral code, or something good and solid

    and heavy, you see, that'll kill somebody unless he follows it."

    Does that sound like the Sea Org since its inception ? :duh:
  9. wiseman_of_the_watchtower

    wiseman_of_the_watchtower Patron with Honors

    On my way out of the S.O., I got to witness EPF'ers starting out.

    There was no better way to understand the trick then to see new people undergo it.

    At first, they were friendly and empathetic. Then as time went on they were more distant. They did not see things for what they were, but rather what their schedule said. They did not question rules, because LRH wrote them.

    The final transformation was when they began to enforce these rules on each other. Then they had become SO members.

  10. Rmack

    Rmack Van Allen Belt Sunbather

    I've always believed that Gene Roddenberry was at least familiar with basic Qabalistic tenets.

    The trio of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy are obviously the three pillars of the Tree of Life. Spock is form, and intellect, the 'Boaz' pillar in front of Solomons Temple, and McCoy is the force side of 'Jachin', the emotional side.

    One way of looking at it is; Spock thinks in linear processes (logic; this and this is true, so this is true), which might be symbolized by a point, as it goes from point to point, and McCoy represents circular, or intuitive thinking, taking in to account everything at once. Put the point in the circle, and you have the glyph for the Sun, which is associated with the middle of the middle pillar, which is the self conciousness, or Captain Kirk making the decision after weighing both sides of the argument.

    It gets even more apparent with 'The Next Generation' I've got a piece on the bridge crew of that show as clear representations of the 'Sephiroth' of the Tree, but that is a pretty long post anywhere except off topic.

  11. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

    Very good post!

    Very well explained WMWT. I agree completely and have nothing to ad here.


  12. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

  13. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

  14. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

  15. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

  16. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

  17. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

    This story shows how cold and heartless this so called church really is

    This is a post from Pixie which you can find here:
    "However the one things that stands head and shoulders above the rest of the insanty I went through, was what happened to me on the TTC. I've not talked about this before to anyone and it's difficult to write and possibly I felt I had no right to write it after reading some of the horror stories from long time SO members in the RPF etc, but this for me was more mental abuse and it was this.. looking back.. that I realize it froze me in time.

    I was on staff possibly only six months or so when I was chosen to go on the TTC to train to be a sup and then perhaps a Qual Sec. There was a big push for newly trained at the time in all the orgs all over the UK so there were quite a lot of us from all over. The schedule was tough, I went through an enourmous amount of shit in the beginning as the Pro-Trs sup wouldn't allow me on the course unless I'd had my purif which the org wasn't willing to pay for.. anyway that's another long winded story. Was dragged around the base by an ot8 as she regged the public, one of the most humiliating things I'd ever experienced... another story .. anyway..

    I was in my twenties, very exicted, massively enthusiastic and more than willing to get through my TIP (training list) and do everything right so that I could get back to my org sooner rather than later and with flying colours, work really really hard and help clear the planet.. . During my time there, I met someone from another org who was also training there and for much of the time we ended up on the same course and in the same course rooms. We were like soul-mates, same zany sense of humour.. so much in common. I was deeply and madly in love. Naturally with the schedule and the limited time we had to spend together, not a lot was able to happen on a physical level, but on every other level, we were both besotted. I was so happy I couldn't even describe it and we both spent our precious time together laughing like hyenas.. and kissing, a lot.. when we got the chance.

    We were living in berthing.. well a shed to be honest, girls shed and boys shed, no heating, no hot water, three to a bunk with whoever was on the top bunk couldn't physically turn around as their nose was touching the ceiling, totally horrendous and inhumane, anyway, each night on the journey home, we used to hold hands - under a coat. Now to this day, I do not know why we did this, no one ever said anything to us, we were always together, yet we held hands under a coat. We'd get off the bus, go have supper with the others, then go for a walk.

    This went on for some time, I don't know how much time as my time lines are still shot to bits, but it was maybe.. I don't know, a year, it felt like a year.

    One night, we were out very late, it was almost one in the morning, we just coudn't tear ourselves away from each other so I had to sneak into the shed and make no noise as everyone was alseep.... or so I thought.

    The next day, I was in ethics as someone had written a KR (knowledge report) saying I was out late and having an 'out 2d'. I denied everything and said we were just friends, but it stung me deeply. After that, we noticed we were being watched closely. We had already been told our next step was to twin on KTL which we started the following week and everything was fine in the first couple of weeks except that someone, an SO member would come in and just stand and watch us, inscessently, we were constantly paranoid and felt sick. Then, every day, we were pulled off our course and asked to 'cough up our crimes'. This was torture, it went on for three weeks, it may as well have been three years, it was hell. In the end they finally got out of us that we were in love and were 'seeing each other'.

    The next morning, we went to class as usual and were pulled into the auditing room again for an SRA (Severe Reality Adjustment). I was screamed at for what seemed like an age, I was told that there was an 'enturbulation order' issued and that neither of us from that moment on were allowed to speak to each other ever again.

    I can't explain what this did to me, I can't explain the state of shock I was in, but for the rest of my time on the TTC, we were not allowed to even say hello, nothing, not even look at each other, no chance to talk or to say goodbye.

    I was told I was being watched, I was called a slut.. my 2d 'history' thrown in my face continuously. I told them we hadn't made love but this was not believed. I was told I was too woggy and had other fish to fry almost every day after that and was watched constantly by one other SO member who seemed to have an obsession to destroy my reputation as well as to stalk me every moment. He followed me everywhere, and I mean everywhere, to make sure I was not speaking with my friend.

    By the time I got back to my org, I was a walking mess, I had no personality to speak off and I was numb. Of course there's more, but you get the jist, and I don't want taking up too much room, I know I don't like reading reems and reems of stuff .. I was so devastated, so so so heartbroken, and yet I was not allowed to show it, any of it, none of it and this has affected me to this day. In fact it still makes me feel physically sick.

    Now, if it was NOW, I would have told them to fuck off. I would have said "......" we're in love, we're holding hands under a fucking coat, this is a cult, run for the hills!! And we'd have escaped back to London and lived happily ever after.

    There were quite a few traumas that I experienced while 'in' that possibly will sound a lot worse than this one, however, this is the one that affected me most deeply. Everything in my life after that seemed like some sort of dream, or rather a nightmare, I was stuck in time, frozen, couldn't move, and I knew it but couldn't do anything about it. It didn't even read on the meter, this was the beginning of my questioning phase, why when I was in 'session', in such a heartbroken and devastated state, was this not picked up.

    Thanks Boldgirl for giving me the opportunity to talk about this. It's about all I can cope with right now."


    AOSHUKR6EW Patron with Honors

    I think being cold and emotionless can be useful at times, although by no means is it an operating basis for life on the whole.
  19. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

    I don't agree on this AOSHUKR6EW

    I'm 44 years old now and in my opinion it is not useful to be cold and emotionless. But please tell me some situations where you think it was useful to you.

    Best wishes

  20. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron