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Scientology is creating cold and heartless people

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Markus, Aug 12, 2009.

  1. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

    Heartless Scientologists leave us alone....

    We don't need the stupid abusive and dilettant Tech of your founder L Ron Hubbard to be happy on this planet. So leave us human beings alone you robot aliens.


  2. angel

    angel Patron with Honors

    No Sympathy

    After a few years in I developed a no sympathy stance, attitude, tone. Its difficult to describe because I was uptone constantly creating the future for the most part. It was staff and pull your self up and dust yourself off, don't be a victim that made me so strict.

    Just being honest, anyone else have the same symptoms? My co-workers call me "scary" but they need me for the answers to all their problems :confused2:

  3. Cinnamon_Girl

    Cinnamon_Girl Patron with Honors

    I agree

    I used to get laughed at when I'd show emotions. I hated suppressing my emotions. I surely don't do that any more.
  4. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    I never suppressed my emotions. I simply didn't let them rule my behavior. Just because your compass points North doesn't mean you have to go there.
  5. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    I feel sympathy for people who are down and out. I don't think that the best way to be of help is to flow over with sympathy, though. Depends on the situation. Sometimes, all someone wants is someone to talk to. I don't agree with LRH's intentions to fleece people based on exploiting their wish to address something that is plaguing them, but I do agree that sometimes a person just needs to be heard, to fully express themselves. Many times people have told me things because they felt comfortable talking to me, and because I didn't interrupt them, or start crying in sympathy, etc. Just having someone who will listen, ask questions to get you to completely tell your story, is the best medicine in the world.

    It always struck me as unnatural and bizarre that some Scientologists turned off their emotions, or their sympathy. I don't remember Hubbard ever saying to do that, but there certainly was an inference that could be drawn that expressing emotions was bad form. My understanding of Clear was not a robot who didn't have emotions, and, in fact, was quite different. I thought they simply had emotions that weren't corrupted or altered by compulsions and unwitting association with past incidents.
  6. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

    Wonderful post La La Lou Lou

    I just love this post.

    Thank you La La Lou Lou

    Best wishes

  7. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

  8. Bee Sting

    Bee Sting Patron with Honors


    Hi Markus,:wave: Long time no see..

    I read your thread yesterday (every response) and I got tears in my eyes.. there is so much to life to enjoy. How can we truly live our lives if we cannot feel the world around us? There is so much joy and yes, there is sorrow too. I believe, we all have a cross to bear. I think I bear mine... but those are things that I love in life and I love being a wog (good and bad.)

    I can feel any emotion I want to! I can laugh! I can cry and I cherish everyone of those emotions. I embrace every person I meet with all my heart, even if they are considered low tone.

    Actually, the low tones and my own ones too, makes me a better person because it teaches me to appreciate what I have and the things I've gone through.

    "Emotions are wonderful things without them how do we love? Without love how do we care? Without care how do we live?" :confused2: I don't know!

    I have a condition for you, it's a mouthful and it may require some time to really, really get it but I thought of it when reading your thread...

    and listening to all those lovely songs... I love them! I truly love them and I so appreciate life after the Sea Org. Every day I live now is a pleasure! That is how bad the SO was for me.

    Ok, so I may be considered an emotional wreck but I am not. I am as stable as anyone else but maybe my difference is that I accept life for what it is well, maybe....

    So, here is my word/definition and answer to your question:

    PTRS - Condition

    Psychological Thought Reform Syndrome a self imposed condition of disassociation from common emotions such as empathy or sympathy in the form of displaying an unemotional response or “cold heartless” in affected situations, typically as the result of oppressive acts by a perpetrator aimed at inferring and manipulation (usually over an extensive period of time), gaining full emotional, psychological and physical control rendering its victim powerless to maintain any self natural instincts or ability of rational thought processing or self determinism over his or her own decisions indifferent from the perpetrator’s own points of views thus rendering its victim powerless by forcing its victim into submission through means of depravation or denial of basic humans needs such as sleep, proper nourishments, medical care coupled with the enforcement of physical hard labor and various forms of isolation eventually leaving the victim dysfunctional in any other environment except for the one created by the perpetrator.

    Those victims tend disconnect any emotions or reaction to any situations in a robotic or matter-of-fact like manner most likely self imposed, as the victim often find themselves to believe the only useful life in existence is the one portrayed by its perpetrator and therefore deny or suppress prior thought processing or experiences or self existence as invalid, false or untrue.

    Did I hit the "Nail on the Head" – NOTH (as moth but with an N)

    Nut In The Nagen – NITN (nitten)

    THAT is my word for what is happening...


    Honey Love,

    Bee Sting
  9. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron


    What a perfect definition! :yes: :clap: :clap: :buzzin: :buzzin:

    Much love and a :bighug: to my sweet honey bee

  10. JinLing

    JinLing Patron

    I would consider a lot of scientologists to be into life and music and art. Its just this non acceptance of being lowtoned. It is natural to get lowtoned once in a while, life isnt always that great. Id say a lot of people that i met in scientology had a strong spectrum of emoitions, but there is this thing about that certain emotions are "low" and certain are "high" emotions. Therefore sympathy is a bad emotion in scientology, for instance, so (someone was talking earlier in the thread that LRH never talked about that sympathy was bad, but yes he did.

    He put it as a low emotion on the tonescale that is indicating it to be a bad emotion, and he talked about it in science of survival as something bad. I agree that sympathy in a noncaring greasy way isnt helping anyone, but to care and to have empathy is a form of sympathy that i think is very vital and important. I could sometimes feel as if some scientologists were just trained in understanding and didnt really think about it as anything else but case.

    But hey, thats what youre trained to do as an auditor, it doesnt mean you think the person is unimportant or anything, you just learn to think its all just case, so it doesnt matter really what it is that the person is so upset about, cause the idea is that auditing will take it all away. And a low tone is case talking to you. So in that sense i can think that you can get less empathy as a scientologist. Cause its all human emotion and reaction, that will be handled sooner or later, you know, the way they look at it.

    I think i gained some things also while being in scientology, when i do get very upset or life is very bad for some reason, i have a way of stepping out of it that i didnt have prior. Then things just happened and i was a mess in the middle of it, now i do look for solutions quite fast without sinking into it too much. But i can still get this horrible feeling of that its not really ok to feel too much or express it if its a low tone, and i can feel a bit shut off to other peoples upsets, and thats the bad part.
  11. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

    You are metioning some very good points here Jin Ling!

    In fact while reading the book science of survival I started to question LRH.
    Soon after reading it and after some abuses while being on staff I blew from my post and from this cult.

  12. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

    Scientology is heartless it is just unbelievable


    "About my Mom, My Mom was taking psychiatric medications for being a schizophrenic/manic/depressive/with psychotic tendencies. I think the label is "schizo affective" now. Yes, a couple of staff in HCO Gold and in RTC considered that my Mom was a suppressive for seeing a psychiatrist about her condition and taking psychiatric medications. She was also "downtone" and below 2.0 on the tone scale. I had those book pages from Science of Survival placed in front of my face numerous times by Ethics Officers, over the years, in relationship to my mother. The first person who got on my case about my Mom was Janadaire actually. I really liked Janadaire mostly, but she had a very negative view of my Mom. I had a negative view of my Mom sometimes too, but I didn't originally think she was doing anything to keep me down in my life. It was apparently to "help" me with my problems to get me to see how my "downtone psych-case Mom" was somehow responsible for my apparent "PTSness" --but it just seemed to make my problems worse, for me, to take that view. I don't know if it was a general belief that psychiatric patients were considered "Suppressive". I assumed it was, that the people doing Ethics Handlings and PTS Handlings on me had been trained in this regard. Has no one else heard of this? That taking psychiatric drugs is considered Suppressive?"


  13. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    'Science of Survival' *should* have been enough to open anybody's eyes to what Ron intended Scientology to become.

  14. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron


    Yes Zinj you are so right on this!!!
    :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:


  15. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    Interesting reading about your ethics handlings, to get you to dissconnect from your mum, and looking at the Way To a Penis handbook, insisting that your parents are the only ones youll ever have and you must cuddle them every day, (no thats not an exact quote!)

    One policy for the wogs one for public, one for staff, one for the Sea Org and an even tougher one for Int. Variable policy. If youre a wog you must be connected to your parents right through to disconnect from anyone you know just in case theyre SP's. Brilliant!
  16. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    In what way? There are a variety of statements made in the book. Many of them directly relate to "how to audit" someone. Others are respective to how to evaluate folks in terms of who you relate with and who you choose not to. There are some statements in the book with which I agree, and there are others that I don't. Certainly you can see his bias against psychiatry/psychology developing, here, as well as his intent to "disconnect" the Church from the public. I'm not at all sure that you can necessarily see his intent for what the Church will look like inside in this book, nor am I convinced that you can see what the Church will be like with regard to public policy here. A lot would depend on the way in which the "outside world" changed with respect to the "inside world". We've seen the way it went, but I would say it didn't go the way Hubbard intended, either inside or out.

    In what respect?
  17. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

    please read this....

    I will just post this quote from this book of Mr. Hubbard here to think about it:

    "The sudden and abrupt deletion of all individuals occupying the lower bands of the tone scale from the social order would result in an almost instant rise in the cultural tone and would interrupt the dwindling spiral into which any society may have entered. It is not necessary to produce a world of clears in order to have a reasonable and worthwhile social order; it is only necessary to delete those individuals who range from 2.0 down, either by processing them enough to get their tone level above the 2.0 line — a task which, indeed, is not very great, since the amount of processing in many cases might be under fifty hours, although it might also in others be in excess of two hundred — or simply quarantining them from the society. A Venezuelan dictator [Juan Vicente Gómez] once decided to stop leprosy. He saw that most lepers in his country were also beggars. By the simple expedient of collecting and destroying all the beggars in Venezuela an end was put to leprosy in that country. [6]"

    "to delete those individuals who range from 2.0 down....." "....or simply quarantining them from the society" like they did with my brother and still do everey day with many hundred others in the RPF every day.
    So who is authorized to decide who is ranging from 2.0 down? A permanent liar like Hubbard or David Miscavige?
    So this quote alone should be enough to start questioning the whole organization.

    And in relation with the death of my brother in the Sea Org this is very important for me:

    "The booklet presents case histories and X-Rays and says that it proves that Dianetics can cure "aberrations" including manic depression, asthma, arthritis, colitis and "overt homosexuality." The booklet further says that it used twelve different tests and presents results from five, four of which came from the California Test Bureau and had according to an 1946 investigation of V. E. Ordahl of the University of California no evidence of reliability or validity."
    From Wikipedia about this book. Here you have one of this clear and criminal medical claims of Mr. Hubbard.....


    Last edited: Sep 29, 2009
  18. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

    Earth is no prison planet....

    ...- it is a planet full of wonderful art marvellous beings and beautiful emotions. Hubbard was a cold and heartless man who feared real emotions because he was not able to have and to show them. He was a covard who was not able to confront real life - so he built up his own world without love and compassion.
    This is just my opinion - what do you think about it?


    Last edited: Oct 2, 2009
  19. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

  20. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron