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Scientology Staff and Public Caste Systems

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by TG1, Apr 29, 2013.

  1. TG1

    TG1 Angelic Poster

    An ESMB friend and I were talking recently about back the day when we were living in the World of Scientology. She was Sea Org, and I was public.

    While we were chatting, she said that when she was staff she “never liked public.” She went on to say that “... and if you think staff didn’t like public, you should know that management despised public.”

    Then she told me stories about how she’d been abused by Sea Org members assigned to orgs higher than hers and how she still felt the sting of how she'd been treated back then.

    Since Scientology was a group devoted to creating a new human species, it was amusing to talk so openly with someone about how some homo novuses were more novo than others.

    How did others here – both staff and public – view the pecking order in Scientology when you were inside the cult?

    Did most / all staff not like / hate / despise public?

    What did public think of staff / SO?

    Come on -- let’s tell the truth about what we really thought about each other.

  2. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    Well i think that the entirety of Scientology both public and staff was stratified from beginning to end. "OT's" we snotty to Pcs, class IV auditors to HQS and so on.

    The Sea Org was the epitome of that - Sea org members, for the most part thought that SO members in orgs "below" them also meant they were "below them" in status as well, as more and more power transferred to int and to "other" places the worse it became. ASI held bridge and NEP in contempt, RTC held the FB in contempt, CMO INt held exec Strata in contempt . It is actually symptomatic of totalitarian regimes - part of the idea is to keep the minions guessing as to where the "power" really is so that organized rebellion is impossible.

    Your friend is right.
  3. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    I was in a very small org in the Antipodes. There was more comradery than there might have been in big places. You tended to see the same public over and over, they might go offlines for awhile and then come anyway, there was not the luxury of being able to be too uppity because the gene pool was too small. The public were not despised. Most Org staff had particular people that they were very friendly towards and this was very apparent even when those people were not present. Some of the staff really understood the realities of having to have a job, raise kids etc.....they were still doing that themselves.
    It was mostly about natural tendencies to like some people and not like others as much. I did sometimes get exasperated about people who had a life "out there" while I slaved away in the org. Stupid me. I should have been doing what they were doing. There were occasional comments from others about that sort of thing too, but not too much of it really. When FOLO missions came, the caste system became more apparent. I know we were all "down there" in their eyes.
    I went to FOLO for a short period. They were a lot more "on purpose" than we were back in the org and didn't have so much time for hometown empathy. At Folo there was comradery between certain SO people, always with their "purpose" being senior to their connections to each other. It was a very male culture. Like a boys club. The public, to them, were "public". Particles to be moved from A to B, AFAICS
  4. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    I read something about OTs on Mick's post and it reminded me of the public OT's.
    They seemed quite dysfunctional. A bit "up there". But I think there were also in the strange position of knowing secrets they couldn't share, knowing the secret that trapped Mankind and all that shit. They usually like talking to their own kind, not to lower case people. Some of them seemed to feel decidely uncomfortable around SO mission people. If I can use a Scientology Cult expression, they often seemed a bit "missed witholdy". :biggrin:
  5. Idle Morgue

    Idle Morgue Gold Meritorious Patron

    It is a hostile playing field today in Scientology. The staff are nice to you and friendly until they have their stat. The Sea Orger's are very serious and not friendly unless they want something from you. No one is happy, no one smiles, there is no life or love in the morgues. It is a very lonely cult - stat driven, crazy goals, no one doing anything except setting up VM tents through the night so Gold can come and take pictures of the 5 staff members giving each other assists so they can send it uplines to DM to prove Scientology works and is saving the planet.

    Public are not even very nice to each other. There are so few people left and none of them seem to like each other - it is a very sad and pitiful organization to be in. One old timer told me a few years ago that this "religion" is the smallest one in the world and get use to being alone - that is just the way it is.
  6. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    As a public I came to see that some of the local org staff resented the public mainly for not being on staff themselves. They believed since they had made the sacrifice then many others who probably could join and "make it go right" were not doing so, and they resented it.

    I was always being urged to join staff. The pressure just never stopped. I got to where I just hated going in to the org because I knew at least one staffer would corner me and reg me hard to join. To use LRH's stupid lingo it ARC broke me. But that turned out to be a good thing because it played a large role in my blowing. In my final analysis there was no way in hell I was ever going to join staff. :no:

    I didn't experience a snotty attitude toward the public until I went to the Freewinds, but only by a handful of the SO staff there. Most of them seemed unhappy, and of course they were. That had to be the worst friggin place in the world to be on staff. I was only on board for a little more than 2 weeks and by the end I was muttering, "I've got to get off this damn boat!" Was anyone here on the Freewinds staff?
  7. In present time

    In present time Gold Meritorious Patron

    when the new black emeters came out in their halliburtons cases, and driving a porsche to the ao front door became the cool thing to do, i started to really lose interest on so many levels.
    but this question reminds me of one thing that really stands out. my little pc who was 12 years old and had only a father who was SO, (no mother) suddenly became cmo one day. i mean i showed up to take her into session, (since i had taken her home with me and nursed her back to health from the cadet org) so she was finally good to go back into session, but somehow she had become cmo, overnight. she had a black skirt on up to her butt, and a white shirt, and she started tearing into me about how i should join the SO? when i pulled my usual excuse, (hey man, LSD) she just looked at me with such disdain, leaned forward and said YOU ARE REALLY PITIFUL!! just amazing, i mean i was meant to take her into session:/
    dm's cmo is the most obnoxious piece of shit i ever saw in scn. but at least they had an excuse, they were all ten years old.:duh:
  8. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Yes, it's hierarchical... just like all Pyramid Schemes are. :yes:
  9. Idle Morgue

    Idle Morgue Gold Meritorious Patron

    MORE please...I never went to the fleecewinds - so please do tell us your entire story of getting fleeced on the fleecewinds.
  10. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    Oh wow....Hmmmmm.....I'm not a good storyteller so I'll probably just post bits and pieces as the memories come back. I can't go into all of the details because my experience there on the Failwinds was rather unique and it would probably "out" me if I say too much. I personally know one of the guys who volunteers for OSA, and one of his roles is to lurk and troll on the net looking for SPs like me. So I'll just say "Hi" to him right now. :wink2: That's largely why I've never talked a lot about my experiences here. I just can't be outed right now.

    I went to the ship in order to do a few "OT Hatting Courses" and for one of their....Oh I forgot what the hell they call it now....a special training conference with a was a package "deal". I think the theme was "making your postulates stick". Of course. That's a typical bullshit theme in the CoS.

    For right now I'll mention one of the most stressful event that happened to me while there. It was a one-on-one reg cycle with the Freewind's IAS main reg, Ted Bragin. How many here know ol' Ted? A lot of you I'm sure. He was a short little toad of a man from the Bronx I think. One of the burroughs in NYC anyway. He said he used to be a theater man before he joined the SO. I can believe it. He was a very good actor as a reg. Actually manipulator. Extremely proficient at making you do what you don't want to do. Watching him in action while working me was like watching a one man play. This play had many acts with no intermission though. It started around 10:00 PM and ended just before 3:30 AM! That is out-policy since I was supposed to be on course the next morning. But hey, it's for the IAS so no big deal. Fuck the policy if it's for the greater good. Right?

    He pulled me in to his office as I was getting off course that night. That was because when I arrived on the ship my plane was delayed so I wasn't able to see him when I routed on. He had to give me the official arriving IAS shake down. And a shake down it was. The whole experience with him was surreal. I knew what he was doing, how he was working me, but I couldn't summon the will to just give what I felt was fair and be firm about it. He was a master at getting inside your head. He would lean forward and talk real soft and dramatic, then pull back at just the right time and throw in some humor and lighten up, and then get dramatic again. I knew he was a snake, but I found myself liking him anyway. At times he reminded me of a used car salesman, at other times he was like my best friend, or favorite uncle.

    Anyway, he succeeded at getting a very large chunk of change out of me. I won't say how much, but it was a lot. But when the cycle was over and I was walking back to the berth I actually felt keyed out! And the whole next day I felt keyed out. It wasn't until several days later when I said to myself, "Oh shit!....What did I do?" I now know now that he used hypnotism on me. He probably wouldn't call it that, but essentially that's what it was. The way he gained eye contact and strategically used inflections with his voice, plus the way he used even his pen and pad. I remember that as having a big impact now, the pen and pad. He was very effective. Gotta hand it to him. But then when I ran into him at other times on the ship he was totally different. He wasn't "on" unless he was working you.

    So that was the main fleecing part on the Fleecewinds. There were the other reges of course. All of them top notch. Including the Captain. Forgot her name. Very attractive Aussie. Probably still there. She reged me to stay longer against my will. Hell I remember getting keyed out after being reged by her too! Probably her looks and Aussie accent. :biggrin: I was essentially reg bait on that damn boat. I had never experienced anything like it before or since. I'm sure all the reges at FLAG and AOLA are also among the SO's best. But the Freewinds has some major regging muhfuckas.'s late.
  11. Idle Morgue

    Idle Morgue Gold Meritorious Patron

    OOOOHHHHH The Ted Bragin IAS fleecer is an expert fleecer. He fleeced me too....he kept me there for several hours and just would not let me leave...I told him NO - I am not donating any more money. He leaned forward and looked into my eyes and said "intergalactic planets at war smashing everything in sight". I thought - OMG - this guy is insane and I gave him $100 bucks to shut him up and told him that is it! I got up and left.

    He called me the next day and I sent all his calls to voice mail. He left a message calling me a "avoider of responsibility to help clear the planet" - and I thought "fuck you Ted". He lurked around for a week and I would pretend to be on my cell phone and wave hello everytime I passed him and just kept walking by him avoiding him like the plague.

    Ted Bragin has done a lot of damage to people and will be really pissed when he finds out the whole IAS and Scientology thing is a scam. His ethics folder is getting really thick right now so when he has no one left to fleece and his stats crash - it will be the RPF for ole Ted.
  12. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    I like this thread. It is absolutely true as a sea org member I even despised my family members who were not in uniform. They even went on holidays! What dilettantism! (of course under that was unbearable jealousy and a continuous desire to get the fuck out of there!)

    I haven't worn a lanyard for over two decades and I really haven't yet had a holiday where I went away just for the purpose of recreation. Even when I was living near a beach I felt bad lying on the sand at the weekend, always had the feeling that someone would spot me and chastise me for wasting valuable time when I could be productive. Even now it would be difficult to do, but I plan to.

    The hierarchy to me was about degrees of ownership. The more you were owned by the church the higher you were. At the bottom were wogs of course, then mission public, who were still nice people and smiled and laughed with wog friends going on up to steely eyed stern faced bitches of either sex whose every thought was standard, who were basically sexless and who would march their spouse to ethics if they had critical thoughts. I was somewhere in between, still slightly human, human enough to know that I felt alien to that environment.
  13. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    And you know what, twenty something years ago I had permission for a few days off agreed by my senior, over Christmas, I went and while I was visiting a wog relative, and having a really nice time, for the first time in years, I had a phone call ordering me back. I was so angry but tried to not show it, it would have been out PR and caused a PTS sit, for which I would have had to take time off to handle. The bastards even managed to find out where I was and the phone number of my cousin. I so wanted to blow then and there, but it would have meant cutting all ties to my spouse and dilettante scientologist relatives, who would have had to disconnect. It must have been one of those so called dillelantes that told them where I was and the number!!! I was caught by the short and curlies! Such a hideous trap!!!!! The only thing I really regret about scientology was not leaving it on the many times crap like that hit me hard in the face. No wonder I worry about sitting on a beach.
  14. TG1

    TG1 Angelic Poster

    Sweet Lou Lou,

    I wish I could send you a nice chunk of change to use for a wonderful beach vacation.

    Life was meant to be lived at so many speeds.

    Maybe it's time for you to just DO it! Sllllllooooowwwwwllllllyyyyyy ..............


  15. Loohan

    Loohan Am I Mettaya?

    I was kind of insulated from much of the "dirt" as i was mostly on course when i was in Scn, except for 3 years when i was SSO (low post) in my Class 4 org.

    But my impression is that in general, public were not despised. Some of the staff were genuinely warm people most of the time.

    I had relatively little contact with the SO except in '85 in Portland and '86 in LA with the Religious Freedom Crusade crap. This is where i got a sense of the SO paradigm, especially in LA.
    A lot of SOers would look at me with overt contempt as though i MUST be out-ethics or why else would i even exist.

    In LA in '86 i had a post of collecting donos from SO staff who had pledged a few measly bux weekly out of their almost-nonexistent pay to the Crooosade. I didn't feel real comfortable about this. A lot of them didn't pay up. And what money i was able to collect didn't amount to much per hour of my time.

    One thing that made an impression on me was going into the SMI (Scientology Missions International) section of the complex. These are the people charged with making Missions boom (at the same time that mgmt was suppressing missions).
    I think these were all really decent people in there! But i never saw such depression. They were at Knowing I'm A Worthless Piece of Shit Way Below Death on the expanded Tone Scale. Man, were they miserable.
    I think maybe i got $2 out of the whole bunch.

    A few other things like when i hopped on a Cadet Org bus and saw those disheveled snot-nosed kids who were not much happier than the SMI execs, and somewhere in the back of my mind, i started to suspect that the reality did not conform to the PR about the most uptone, upstat group on the planet.

    And of course the higher orgs treated us in Austin in a similar way oftentimes. I remember for a while all staff (because we had such an inexplicably downstat org whilst everyone else was BOOMING:eyeroll: that there must be something WRONG with us) had to stay off-post hours every Sunday to do a White Gloves cleanup of the bldg. Every damn week we had to wipe the dust off the tops of door frames and picture frames because any speck of dust could repel the public.
  16. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    Don't worry I have plans afoot, my lovely house in Bulgaria is going on the market and when sold, after bills I may make enough to renew my passport and sit on a beach in some warm tropical place for a couple of weeks! A large house, plenty of outbuildings, now crumbling, a field, stable, pig pens, goat pens and I should get 3000 euros for it! That should be enough to have a guilt free blast, and an all over tan!
  17. Gib

    Gib Crusader


    Never met [STRIKE]Don[/STRIKE] Ted, but this is how I would talk to him
  18. CO2

    CO2 Patron Meritorious

    In the early 1970s, when the word "mission" hadn't been used yet, I was at several franchises, including one of my own in the San Francisco Bay area.

    We, at the franchises, were smarter and better than the orgs, because we didn't have to follow all those stupid rules.

    People like Nancy Kelly and Rick Melrose (auditors / and as people) at the San Francisco Org had our respect and friendship.

    People like Peter Glickman and Fred Schwartz, reges at the same place, earned our antipathy for being pushy or slimy.

    It was not a matter of caste, but a matter of class act or scum. Rick Melrose is still "in" and he is still a class act.

    Fred Schwartz is, *I think*, still "in," and even if he is OT8, he is still slimy.

    We had a great relationship with CC, in LA. They would send us talent, every week end for Sunday Service. We'd pack the course room or a near by park amphitheater with well over 100 people. The band, the comedian, the singer - from CC would perform for half an hour, and then someone would give an entertaining talk on some aspect of tech. We did this for years.


    We had a great relationship with the folk at CC. There were those of "us" who were on the bus (this is a Ken Kesey reference), and those in Scientology who were "panters" - a Pavlovian term we used for "true believers" - panters panted on cue. If LRH said ____, they bought it, hook line and sinker. If LRH changed his mind, and reversed course 180 degrees, they parroted that. Like Pavlov's dogs, they panted on cue from the latest HCOB, PL, etc.

    We were in the "fun" Sci, not the Sci of rules, control, domination and little boxes.

    If it wasn't fun, it wasn't Sci.

    With regards to ASHO and AO, we at the franchises, had worked with or been on courses with many of the top bananas of the Sea Org, but thought the Sea Org was a bunch of clowns, nevertheless.

    When I went to LA to go Clear, I was specifically warned about "the Sea Org cognition." -

    - "I've got to join Ron and help clear the planet."

    When I got it, mid way in the Clearing Course, I didn't write it in my worksheets. I just said to myself, "you're crazy, this will go away," and it did.

    Many of my friends joined the Sea Org. Forty years later, most left many decades ago. Some haven't. We are, all, still friends. Literally, No joke. My phone calls and e mails go through. And vice versa.

    In more recent times (approx: 2000), when my one of my kids wanted to to take a course in Sci, I hooked her up with a friend's mission. it went swimmingly. She took a few courses, got some auditing, and went about her life without a snag into the depths of cult-itis. Friendship and mutual respect trump cult mindsets.

  19. clamicide

    clamicide Gold Meritorious Patron

    When I first joined staff, I was stunned to find out what staff really thought of the public. Public never had a clue how they were talked about behind closed doors. This definitely came from the top down. Briefings by the ED were kind of wild. We (as staff) were the only ones who cared enough to do something about it, and although we were there to help the public as beings--they were either totally fucked up or out-ethics. If not, they would be on staff. There were sometimes reminders that the org wouldn't be there without the public, so we should love them, but generally there was a hell of a lot of disdain.

    One of the most-beloved auditors that was requested often by pc's because of her 'high' ARC would just shred most of the people she audited. Hell, most auditors seemed to do that in a 'safe space'. She said she just created the ARC--that's what you do as an auditor. People who thought she totally adored them would be stunned to hear what she really felt.

    Full-time staff completely looked down on those who had to moonlight. Full-timers were mostly people who were supported by their spouses or parents.
  20. CO2

    CO2 Patron Meritorious

    Are you talking about Santa Clara on Stevens Creek?

    i gave Clay his first job, after he was declared.

    Kingsley was until his death, in good comm with me.

    i never heard or sensed any of these things.