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Scientology's End - less wishful thinking please

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by FascinatedNeverIn, Jan 28, 2014.

  1. FascinatedNeverIn

    FascinatedNeverIn Patron with Honors

    Hi Sindy,

    This, to me, would be an example of wishful-thinking. I've seen no first-hand reports of anything that supports this. Perhaps I've missed them?

    In lots of posts, people declare Miscavige is shaking in his (and they never fail to point out) John Lobb shoes. There have been no credible leaks (that I've seen) from the inside to suggest his mental state is breaking down. Sure, he must be under pressure, but no one seems to know if he even believes in all the Hubbard bollocks anymore. He's probably protected from most bad news, so he might be having the time of his life.
  2. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    Having the time of his life in Texas.
  3. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    Anyone in the year 2014 with internet access who nonetheless still joins Scientology is one or more of the following:

    a) Stupid

    b) Willfully Ignorant

    c) Masochistic

    An update of the ancient Latin admonition "Caveat Emptor" is in order. . .

    CaveOT Emptor
  4. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    Yeah.....seriously.............and I left out some serious hardware.

    Things I want and don't have ?

    There is a company that makes a fully automatic 12 gauge with a hundred round ( quick change ) magazine they are trying to sell to the military - man I'd love to have one of those ! The demo's are awesome! Had to settle for an 11 shot Beretta semiautomatic. :happydance:

    RPG's. I've seen Brinks Trucks stopped cold with an RPG. I'd be happy with only a couple of dozen of those. Unfortunately, currently they are all tracked too well to own 'em. :omg:

    A sack of hand genades. :prettyplease::prettyplease::prettyplease:
  5. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    In regards to the title thread " less wishful thinking " in regards to scn's end :

    Hm, While the demise hasn't happened nearly as quickly as so many of us would like to see....

    I got to look at Jerry Armstrong, Jon Atack, Brent Corydon, Paulette Cooper, Ida, Arnie Lerma, Bob Minton, Mark Bunker and so many others I didn't mention in the long line of outspoken crusaders knocking away at the chinks in the armour. Jesse Prince, Mike Rinder, Marty Rathbun, Tory, Karen & so so so many more who have stood up - and are still standing up - to what was once the almost invincible power of the cult. The critics have made it to where the corner has been turned - the cult is coming down.

    And, gosh, I left out so many who gave so much to stand up.

    Yeah, there are going to people like the OP who may want to poo-poo any progress against the cult and, at last, starting to bring it down.

    In the old mainstream strongholds of the cult like the US & Australia are losing membership rapidly and finding new members a tough deal. Has the cult started going to third world countries where they haven't been heard of yet ? Yep. UK, Norway, France, Germany, South Africa ? Nope. Burned out. Ruined their own reputation. Liked in LA or Clearwater ? Nope.

    The cult has to prey in third world countries - that is where they have to go now for more " raw meat "......but, will it work ? Sure. Short time. Works for " Thursday by 2 PM ". But will it work long term ?

    I don't think so. The cult of scn is burning it's bridges as it works through country after country doing the same thing time and time and time again expecting a different result of " success ". Ain't happening is it ?

    So, yeah, some are always going to come here and make less of those who given so much and endured so much to stand against the cult to get this progress in ending the cult.

    Lots of tears, many lost friends and family, lots of heart break and seeing some not live through it to see where we are today.

    The cult is dying...... and some damn fine people have certainly died to help bring it down.

    I got to salute those who got us all to where we are - and would get banned from here for my honestly felt comments to those who come here and make less of those who paid - and are paying - the price to bring down the cult.

    Time, again, for me to walkabout.
  6. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader

    Well, I can see how this seems like wishful thinking but ultimately, no one who has to send 22 high paid lawyers to keep one from being deposed is having the time of his or her life. He also doesn't look well. From past testimony of Mike, Marty, Steve Hall, Jeff Hawkins, we have grown to understand that Miscavige's lowest point at which he apparently started going way south was the Lisa McPherson trial.

    Before then, he thought he was invincible. The real world is scary to this guy based on lots of testimony that I cannot take the time to link you to. If you take the whole of what Miscavige has done and said I think it's pretty easy to piece together a mindset.

    You can tell by the way the rest of the people who speak for the church (either directly or in comment sections of articles and blogs) what type of insane pressure they are under and how they take on the nastiness from the pressure above.

    Having been a staff member, I can tell you that the terror and insanity is palpable. Having gone, as an IAS staff member to the 25th IAS Anniversay event at St. Hill (where DM feels he can let his hair down being among "friends"), that the little speech he gave to his whales was very odd and showed a paranoid and beleaguered man even back then in 2009.

    I do believe there are signs.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2014
  7. ahhh...

    hand grenades...

    you're warming the cockles of me heart AT; hand grenades are such wonderful things! matt ridgeway always had a hand grenade strapped above his left breast. he said "there's a lot of situations a soldier can get in a grenade can get him out of". the general; fine soldier, fine patriot and fine man lived to the ripe old age of 98...


    poor old commander birdsong, fool that he is, signed off of active duty at ft. lewis 1803 hrs 26 jan '70 and at that moment swore he would put down firearms and go as far as he could in life working on peace. i have rued that vow many times but a card laid is a card played; same rules as last year...
  8. secretiveoldfag

    secretiveoldfag Silver Meritorious Patron

    I can read about two lines of this kind of thing before I start wriggling. 'Many people' find Scientology beneficial and meaningful because from day 1 they are hoodwinked and manipulated. Within a few days it can already be too late. There is no distinction between the set of fascistic techniques of mind control devised by Lafayette and the fascistic organisation he created which applies them to the raw meat.

    I doubt if the workers would have any idea how to keep anything running if the doors suddenly opened and someone said, 'Come out or stay in; it's up to you, you're free'. I suspect many of them would be unhappy and would not know what to do. If anyone stays in now this is not because Hubbard's tech is beneficial but because for months and years they have been brainwashed into using his garbage rather than their own brains.

    But I don't believe there is a core of self-motivated active sincere workers; I just do not believe this.

    People can be persuaded to believe almost anything, no matter how nonsensical, when they are brainwashed to do so and when they are surrounded by other victims who believe the same.

    What might happen when the framework of the con is removed? Who knows? It could be very good or very bad or just a non-event. Maybe it has gone already.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2014
  9. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader

    Hi FascinatedNeverIn,

    Also, on really doesn't matter if Miscavige is having the time of his life or not. We are talking about Scientology's end (and I am assuming you are mainly referring to the organization). Frankly, if Miscavige is having the time of his life despite all the pressure coming down on him then he is even crazier than most think and is so blind to reality as to guarantee he continues to commit catastrophic gaff after catastrophic gaff.

    So, really, any wishful thinking about DM's mental state is really irrelevant as whether he is a narcissistic egomaniac who thinks he's invincible or a paranoid sociopath who is finally sensing the writing on the wall -- he is not above the law, he cannot let empty buildings rot all across the globe without repercussion, because he is being deposed, he can be served by others he has slithered away from in the past as his exact whereabouts will be known.

    People will continue to blow and speak out. He has no rational reason for doing the crazy things he's done. His deposition will be fascinating (or infuriating but still fascinating).
  10. aaaa...

    the deposition may be interesting but i don't expect much from it. mosey's case is awfully small potatoes anyway. it's not getting any media attention because it really isn't worth any

    now laura decrescenza's case has some potential...
  11. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader

    I agree. I expect next to nothing in terms of any substantial testimony but I do expect some theater. I do revel in the fact that he is being forced out of his cozy inner world and made to follow the rule of law.

    Regardless of the fight to get anything out of the guy, it's still a milestone.
  12. anonomog

    anonomog Gold Meritorious Patron

    Oooh, choose your words carefully now or the fact police will be asking you for dox or gtfo.

    Some people are incredibly astute people readers. Add that to a personal inside experience and understanding of the nuances, us never-ins will never begin to catch and it becomes some very interesting and insightful postings.
    I've learned a lot here and not always about scientology.:biggrin:
  13. JBWriter

    JBWriter Happy Sapien

    It's called grace, and you, Sindy, have it in abundance.

    Brava. :clap:

  14. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Very good perspective. . .

    Nothing but good can come out of Miscavige being pulled into deposition, no matter what he says or doesn't say.

    A con man's worst nightmare is being called to testify under oath where everyone "has the rank" to ask him questions. Getting his sworn testimony on ANYTHING pins down his otherwise unassailable position. It may or may not result in this particular case blossoming into a big "gotcha" moment, but it forwards the cause of ridding the world of the cult in meaningful ways.

    It keeps the dominoes toppling in the right direction. It opens the door for other current/future litigants to build from his representations. It's a learning curve.

    It also exposes the almighty and all powerful Wizard of Cause as a mortal who can be hauled into court. The aura of invincibility is being shattered before our eyes. This is the closest the "enemy" (truth) has gotten to his fortress since the Lisa McPherson case. Somebody really goofed for things to get so bad that he can't stop the wheels of civil justice from ensnaring him like this--after decades of building up his fortified layers of defense!

    About 99% of the "religious" safeguards that Miscavige abuses to keep himself immune from the courts were put in place by the COS gaming the IRS with thousands of small lawsuits, right? So it is that Karmic justice and irony has come about with similar "small potatoes" civil litigation(s) pulling him down like the many strings that incapacitated Gulliver.

    In my view, the best outcome is to KEEP Miscavige in the court system again and again, over a protracted period of time--humiliating the OT of OTs with one damaging revelation after another. Miscavige is the world's number one enemy of Scientology and if he can somehow stay on post for a few more years, many thousands of cult members and whales will be prompted to blow.

    Personally, I never understood why critics would want COB to be taken off post. Seriously! LOL
  15. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader

    Oops, I responded to this post without fully reading it.

    Mosey's case isn't small potatoes as far as the cult world goes though. The world, in general, sure but that's only because Scientology is small potatoes period.

    It deserves local media attention at least. I don't agree that it deserves none.
  16. theatre?


    yes, sindy, like so very, very much in life it is surely good for some theatre and though it's audience be small yet they have a passion for the play...
  17. no HH...


    not another domino theory!!!
  18. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader

    No, "theater"
  19. ah my dear...

    please be so gracious as to understand you are conversing with a monumental and utterly devastating thespian
  20. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader

    I do. I was just being American. :cheers: