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Scientology's End - less wishful thinking please

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by FascinatedNeverIn, Jan 28, 2014.

  1. Winston Smith

    Winston Smith Flunked Scientology

    Man do I have a different take on domino theory now that I am reading Diana West's "American Betrayal."
  2. haven't read it. god, so many books, so little time

    it was a bit of a sticky wicket wot?
  3. "here's looking at you kid..."

    Last edited: Jan 31, 2014
  4. aegerprimo

    aegerprimo Summa Cum Laude

    :welcome: Welcome FacinatedNeverIn!

    Yes, the Co$ is getting smaller by the day, but it's wealthy and its crimes are drastic. People need to know about these things, and most would not tolerate the ongoing crimes and abuse happening in their backyards or down the street. As you will see from the stories here, and at the other forums like WWP, OCMB, RFTTP, along with blogs like Tony Ortega’s Underground Bunker, the Co$ is ruthless (with its Fair Game policy for example).

    Each Ex-Scientologist here has experienced some level of abuse from this so-called - church. Some have lived through forced abortions, some have been separated from family, and some have experienced a deterioration of mental health and/or physical health. Some have recovered or are recovering from extreme debt and bankruptcy. Many of us have told our own personal stories here and elsewhere on the internet.

    The Co$ is a wealthy and dangerous CULT hiding under the guise of a religion. It brainwashes its members, and abuses its staff. People need to know about its crimes.

    Thank you for coming here and joining the discussions. :thumbsup:
  5. FascinatedNeverIn

    FascinatedNeverIn Patron with Honors

    Some people seem to harbour the impression that I am belittling or pooh-poohing progress against the cult, or the privations and struggles of those speaking out.

    I'm not. It's all very admirable, and I cannot wait til this subject is only found in history books.

    I just wanted to point out that I'd seen many, many instances of people getting carried away (in my humble opinion) and doing the opposite of belittling: overstating the current situation.

    Just to be clear... :)
  6. MissWog

    MissWog Silver Meritorious Patron

    Well, I have not seen anyone overstating the current situation but I am grateful for all the responses from ESMB members so lurkers have a better understanding of what hell happens to people who join this cult. Lives are devastated, families broken, futures shattered and bank accounts emptied.

    And to the point above.. That is why I am here..because I do not want to stand for it happening in my backyard, let alone my street, my town, my country..or my planet.

    I hope you have learned something from all these wonderful heartfelt responses and rather than debate if people are too wishful in their thinking...maybe decide what your contribution will be going forward.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2014
  7. PTS

    PTS Elliott

    I lost ten years of my youth in that cult. I parted with an obscene amount of money, nearly blew my university education, disconnected from my family, lost the opportunity to see my grandmother one more time before she died, alienated friends, lost my health, lost most of my college fund, and eventually escaped by moving several time zones away and legally changing my name. If I have optimism that the cult is dying quickly, well who could blame me? You believe what you want and I'll do the same.

    And compared to many here, my experience in this lying manipulative cult of death was very easy. And I was fortunate enough to live to bear witness to the horror. The list of people who died in the cult is long. The list of people who survived $cientology but remain broken and suffering is much longer.

    So honestly, stick around if you want to listen... "lurk moar" as some say... and leave the patronizing concern trollery at the doorway please.
  8. FascinatedNeverIn

    FascinatedNeverIn Patron with Honors

    You know when you start a well-meaning thread and people get the wrong end of the stick, and then you try to explain and it just makes things worse?

  9. aegerprimo

    aegerprimo Summa Cum Laude

    Oh yes, the rats and garbage cans...


    Attached Files:

  10. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    FNI, since you're no longer a Noob, I can speak frankly:

    You rock onto this forum as a Newbie, and straightaway have all sorts of nasty criticisms and inuendo about this forum's members, consistently generalising us as a "group" even though, by joining, you are also a member and therefore your criticisms apply to you as well. Apparently you have personally elected yourself as some sort of "speaker", but you are not, so your presentation is more like some sort of jerk harboring a lot of negativity. You are a very unpleasant person online with a lot of self-promotion and bragging, which, since none of us know you, is probably all smoke and mirrors anyway.

    It started in your very first introductory thread and hasn't stop since. Either join a discussion as an individual or don't, but this "I am an observer looking at your/my group that I joined as I stand from above" bullshit is getting a bit old. It's pretty clear you don't have any real education in Sociology, whatever your claims, because you make mistake after mistake after mistake and then make it worse. With your horrid record of mistakes in your prejudicial analyses of groups, maybe you should give this up. At any rate, you'd be wise to keep your day job (if you have one), because you stink at Sociology. I don't believe any of your other claims, either.

    And have a try at a sense of humour while you're at it, too.
  11. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    I kinda disagree with this also.

    Mosey's case, should it play out to a victory for her, will set a new precedent.

    It will rub dog's doodoo in DM's face and will show the church's legal machine can work against them not that it hasn't before, but read what follows...

    More importantly, it will attack and throw the church's primary weapon (fair gaming) into a legal quagmire for them. They will never be able to use it again with total impunity and covering their tracks.

    Laura's case wont be minor in its repercussions either.
  12. aegerprimo

    aegerprimo Summa Cum Laude

    Okay, I have read every post in this thread.

    The people here are passionate, they say what they think. I respect and appreciate it. There is no such thing as PC (politically correct) here and when joining the discussion, you need to have a thick skin. In other words, don’t take things personally.

    I value, (and I believe I can speak for most here), the viewpoints, knowledge and insight that never-ins bring to this forum. Please keep posting. :flowers:
  13. Udarnik

    Udarnik Gold Meritorious Patron

    I don't agree that this case is necessarily small potatoes.

    This case has Supreme Court potential. Up until now there has been an assumption of the benevolence of religion in US law. From the case where the little girl was injured in the exorcism to the cover-up of sexual abuse in the Catholic Church, the courts are so afraid of stepping on religion's toes that they have effectively ruled that the rights of a clergy, any clergy, outweigh the rights of an individual. If all the abuses come to light here, we may see a push to limit the amount of volunteer time that can be unpaid or paid below minimum wage, effectively abolishing the SO. We may see a push to limit visas for religious groups without greater scrutiny, to eliminate human trafficking. We may see someone finally stating exactly how far a religious organization may circumscribe an individual's free speech and other rights even with that individual's permission.

    I'd love to see some spillover on the Catholic Church, and some subpoenas issued for clerics now in hiding in the Vatican and other places, even a subpoena for the Pope. Hell, if Davy can be deposed, why not Francis? :biggrin:

    What I hope comes out of this is some discussion, if not some legal language, about where, exactly, a religion's rights end in this country. It's high time we shook off the Founder's reticence to legislate in the field of religion and work out what isn't permissible, and what is. If this does finally hit the national news, that could be the outcome.
  14. FascinatedNeverIn

    FascinatedNeverIn Patron with Honors

    Look, I'm sorry if you have this impression of me. I have never claimed anywhere to have any specialist knowledge, sociological or not. In fact, I clarified that I did not claim to be highly educated. I merely stated that I've lurked for a while and read most of the blogs each day.

    It is intimidating being a noob on a forum where most people know the torturous lingo back to front and have been posting for years. Humour can go very badly online, so I haven't attempted it, mistakenly thinking I'll avoid alienating myself right off the bat.

    I am looking to learn and I have some questions that haven't been asked or phrased the same (that I have found), so I dove in. I am not looking for a fight or to troll. I'm really just a normal chap with an interest, but not a life-consuming interest, in this particular subject. If I've come across badly then I'll try harder, but I still want to ask things I feel may be relevant to my understanding. If anyone feels it is beneath them then by all means don't give me the time of day.

    As I say, I just meant well.
  15. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    I meant to ask this on another thread about Mosey's case and the squirrelbuster stalking siege.

    I seem to remember that the COS released a statement(s) (Karen Pouw?) very early on in this whole matter that the COS had NOTHING TO DO WITH the squirrel busters. I think they characterized it as an independent action of private parishioners.

    Does anyone have the links to those classic TR-L press releases?

    It is always delicious to compare the earlier lies of Scientologists to the [STRIKE]truth[/STRIKE] later lies. LOL
  16. JBWriter

    JBWriter Happy Sapien

    Here's the link to a very informative article and I encourage you (and all) to read the part when the reporter, Guy Adams, describes the e-mail responses he received from the Co$:

    Fun Excerpt:

    Excerpt which partially relates to your query, HH:

    It seems reasonable to think that Guy Adams and/or The Independent kept a copy of the emails from Co$/Co$ attorneys, Carter-Ruck.

    As for digging up the actual quote(s) from the Co$ spokesrep? IIRC, Tony Ortega wrote something about this very issue some weeks back, but I'm not sure if he provided a copy of a written statement or not.


    JB (I posted the Tom Cruise/Bert Fields bit just to crack myself up. It worked!)
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2014
  17. DeeAnna

    DeeAnna Patron Meritorious

    This is a little off topic, but not too far off. And it's funny.

    Today I did something I've never done before. I visited the official $cientology website.

    The opening page has several interesting photos of the November Grand Opening of the Clearwater "Cathedral" - which, according to their website, 10,237 people attended.

    And it appears that just about all 10,000 of them are crowded into the streets to hear Miscavige give his 5 minute speech.

    Too funny!
  18. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    In the world of Scientology, in terms of the Scientology philosophy, based on ARC, TRUTH is whatever any person "agrees with".

    ARC has NOTHING at all to do with truth. "R" is "reality", and that hinges ONLY on "agreement". To Hubbard, and most Scientologists (if they duplicate and apply the data fully), "truth" results from agreements that have become "solid" or are shared by many "thetans".

    "Truth" is a word one rarely encounters within the subject materials of Scientology.

    The ARC game is to manipulate an "understanding" in others, and "truth" factors in not at all! It took me awhile to grasp that when involved with the Church of Scientology. But, that is what the data states, and that is how it plays out in real Scio life.

    "Truth" has been and will always remain irrelevant in Scientology.
  19. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader



    Scientology - where the spin (PR, lies, deception, mislabeling) never stops.
  20. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    And I am pretty sure that a US spokesperson (Pouw, I think) issued one or two letters of DENIAL, claiming that the COS had NOTHING to do with squirrel busters!

    Gaslight tech!

    Now they are falling all over themselves in court, trying to PROVE that the COS had EVERYTHING to do with squirrel busters! (not RTC)

    Scientology. Crazy people saying crazy things to make you feel crazy enough to stop asking them for facts.