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Should Scientologists have the right to practice Scientology?

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Emma, Apr 26, 2013.

  1. Emma

    Emma Con te partirĂ² Administrator

    This is a tricky question to ask. Not because the answer is complex but because the question is complex.

    I'm not asking if Scientology should be above the law. It should not. Any activities that break the law should be condemned & dealt with by law enforcement, e.g false imprisonment, using child labour etc. But what about Joe Public who wants to get auditing? What about the guy who wants to train to become an auditor? Should he be stopped from doing that?
     
  2. to the second question obviously the law since the enlightenment affirms that

    it is those former citations where the questions are very very thorny. the fbi goes into the hole and the penitents therein say they remain under church authority of their own free will what law can justly remove them?

    and then governmental authority vs. the right of parents to raise children within the tenets of a religion

    i'm among many who go very long on privacy and religious rights

    christ on a bicycle!

    that's why i can't get along with CoS!
     
  3. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Yes, they not only should have that right, they actually do have that right. :)
     
  4. shadow

    shadow Patron with Honors

    I think full disclosure is appropriate in all dealings. With full disclosure, if an adult choses to do something, it's OK by me. It is the fraudulent claims that trick people which I object to.
     
  5. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    If a few people are still signing up at the spoon-bending class, or aura-fluffing, or something, I suppose they could also do OT3. I'm almost okay with my stance, except that spoon-bending pursuits never had victims. I'd rather people who are not exposed to it, to never be. If people that have been doing it for decades at home, I suppose I don't care. I know they are just stuck in a cult experience incident. I have to add: no kids.
     
  6. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    Short, sweet, and correct. :thumbsup:
     
  7. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    No.

    But it should all be heavily regulated by the government with licensed psychologists approving the practice and it's training. DB can be assigned to finding and dealing with all scofflaw auditors.

    :lol:
     
  8. Adiren

    Adiren Patron

    Go to college, get a degree, register in a professional association (in my country we have an Order that awards recognition after a supervised period of training, certifies and keeps ethical track of every associate in a disciplinary way, if needed) and offer your services as a counselor (auditor, if you wish). The Joe pubic that wishes to be audited should have a guaranty that what he is receiving is legal and within the framework of a scientifically certified practice.
     
  9. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    No, he should not be stopped.

    IMO, it's foolish to say that poeple aren't harmed by Scientology outside the CofS - just look at the Freezoners such as those led around by the likes of Rey Robles and Pierre Ethier; it's better to say, "Yes, some people will be defrauded, and some psychologically harmed, and some will suffer physically because they are led to believe that auditing will cure them when they should have sought medical assistance, etc., but that - erring on the side of a (relatively) free society - such harm is usually tolerated, since the alternative would be the imposition of restrictions that would have undesirable consequences."

    It's better to make information available so that people can be informed, and warned in advance.


    A sampling for what awaits:

    "The Free Zone Decree was received on Earth on the 10th of November, 1982 at 1030 GMT. It states, 'as relayed from mainship, Sector 9'..."

    From Elron Elray, dated 11 May 1986, to the Free-Zone and Captain Bill:

    "I wish to thank all my friends in the Free-Zone and especially Captain Bill, who carried on in spite of great odds, on my behalf.

    "The tech is all in his hands and is ready for you now. I wish you all success on it.

    "When enough are ready for OT 17 and OT 18, I will return..."
    http://www.freezone.org/cbr/sector9/e_sob22.htm

    Some other items from Captain Bill and Ron's Orgs:

    This is the FZ Marching song (features the complete Decree): http://galac-patra.narod.ru/index.html

    And here's Xenu's SP Declare: http://www.freezone.org/cbr/sector9/e_sob20.htm

    And then, Markab, the Final Handling: http://www.freezone.org/cbr/sector9/e_sob19.htm

    These days Free Zone Scientology (two words) usually calls itself "Ron's Orgs," although it is still part of FreeZone Scientology (one word).

    Ron's Orgs is the largest and most successful "FZ" Scientology group.

    [​IMG]


    The last FreeZone (one word, not Ron's Orgs but friendly to Ron's Orgs) "FZ" conference was hosted by this guy:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYGFOevVmHQ


    Another major player in Independent/FZ Scientology is Pierre Ethier. Here's a Success Story from one of his clients:

    This person thinks he's going to "go to OT XV with Pierre."

    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=396941&postcount=851

    Excerpted text below.

    TECH outside COS:

    On the 19th of February, 2010 I attested to OTVII. When Pierre asked if I would like to attest, I felt the burden of millions of years of enslavement finally lift from my shoulders...

    I retired from my job in 2001 and I reevaluated my position in Scientology. I had about $150,000. in my savings. I could either leave that money for my kids to spend when I died or I could spend it on myself in Scientology. Even though I had made no attempt to get additional training or processing for 37 years, I chose the latter.

    ...It is now my intention to go to OT XV with Pierre. I look forward to what I know will be an exciting and very rewarding journey
    ...


    For more information on services in the Freezone,
    mail me, Terril Park, at basic2basic@ yahoo.com


    And then there's the Association of Professional Independent Scientologists:

    http://internationalfreezone.net

    [​IMG]

    The above provides a pretty good sampling of what one will find in outside the CofS Scientology. And, of course, there's Marty Rathbun and his group, and iScientology, and various mom&pop auditing services.
     
  10. Adiren

    Adiren Patron

    Thanks Veda, it's quite illustrating.

    It's astounding how egotistical people become when involved in "The Thec."
     
  11. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    God help us! Keep the damned government out of our lives as much as possible. We have too many laws and government agencies already. We sure don't need the government approving what "mental" practices should be permitted.

    Please tell me what is so great about "licensed psychologists"? Are we to believe that this field has got it nailed down? I don't think so. We bitch about scilon's bad results auditing-wise, what about the vastly greater number of bad results/no results in the "licensed" brand?

    Freedom is a good thing. One law - don't harm others (and yes I know that defining "harm" is a trouble point). Beyond that, have at it.
     
  12. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    Anyone caught attempting to teach or practice helping others using an address to the human mind that is not approved by the Dept of Mind Control will be shot on sight. - USA Congress 2043
     
  13. Emma

    Emma Con te partirĂ² Administrator

    For the first time in weeks Veda & I agree on something!!:happydance:

    I hope you don't think I'm suggesting that harm is not possible in the FZ. I'm not at all.

    There is danger in a lot of things. There is the possibility that every time I get in my car I'll be taken out by another driver, or I'll have a mechanical failure that will cause an accident, or I could have a lapse in concentration that results in a collision. I know this is possible, yet I still drive everywhere and I take my child with me.

    About 4 years ago I decided to jump out of a plane. The stats for deaths caused by Skydiving are a little scary but I decided to do it anyway. I'm glad I did it & that there is no law against it even though it is dangerous. I might feel differently if I'd lost a family member to a skydiving accident though.

    I feel if people know & understand the risks, AND they are not breaking any laws, they should be free to do what they want. Even if it's dangerous.
     
  14. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    Wow! That Ron's Org Bridge looks imposing as hell! Not to mention, well....scary! Not for me.
     
  15. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    I was just giving an SP answer, and as usual being a J&Der. I'm actually not into more government regulation either. :no:
     
  16. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Understanding the risks is the crux of it all. The only way for that to happen is complete transparency, both of the existing scientology structure and the various forms and offshoots. Education, education, education.
     
  17. Emma

    Emma Con te partirĂ² Administrator

    So what about the ethics system in Scientology. Should this be a reason to make the practice of Scientology illegal?

    My answer to this is that the idea of KRs & ethics conditions are introduced to a new Scientologist fairly early. The ethics book is part of the basics book package. So if a person decides to buy into that kind of "dob in a mate" attitude, then that's on them.

    As for the SP doctrine of disconnection - it's no different to religious shunning that a lot of religions practice. It sucks & it's horrible but again, if you buy into it then that's on you. If you want to be part of a religion that separates you from your loved ones because of a difference of opinion then surely that is your right. It's stupid & harmful, but it's your right.
     
  18. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Yep, I know an ex-Exclusive Brethren dude. Those Cats make scios look like Pussies! :biggrin:
     
  19. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    Personally, I think it was a mistake for Hubbs to get involved with ethics. That entire section of Scn could be jettisoned without sorrow. And that goes for the Admin "tech" as well. Heave-ho me matey.
     
  20. JBWriter

    JBWriter Happy Sapien

    A personal opinion...

    1A: Joe Public may freely receive individual auditing now...(see video)

    [video=youtube;c3QhO34lVf0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3QhO34lVf0[/video]

    2A: ... and his desire to train as an auditor is not and should not be prohibited by law.

    3A: He shouldn't be stopped from pursuing either course of action by law/regulations, as the rights associated with such personal pursuits are protected under most Constitutions.

    Should 'auditing' (it's definition, protocols, methodology, etc.) be standardized among its practitioners to better serve/inform the public-at-large? Yes, I think that would help everyone to better understand what's involved with this activity.

    JB.