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Stabbing @ Scio Sydney - 12/2/2019 9:42 PM Central Time USA

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Miss Ellie, Jan 3, 2019.

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  1. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    Thanks Fixer.

    I'd like to get the stink of this whole situation broadcast as far and as wide as possible, now, before the Cult tries to sweep it under the carpet.

    I've tried to download the news video with that Goon at the ladies house, where he is obviously terrified of the News Reporter Video Taping...but haven't been able to, due to it being posted via FaceBook.

    Once this is Legally over....it will just be another Death related to Scientology that one will have to research on the net...
    The Cult will try to cover it up as best they can.
     
  2. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    For sure, for sure.....
     
  3. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    Regarding the Scientology Enforcer Goon...talked about above, it looks like Bryan Seymore has had a run-in with this same Enforcer...as can be seen in this YouTube Video...taken at the Grand Opening.

    Go to 2:35 to see it:

     
    eyeswideopen likes this.
  4. oneonewasaracecar

    oneonewasaracecar Gold Meritorious Patron

    Speaking of which ....
    ... the link below is to an old website which has been archived. The website was called whyaretheydead.
    http://www.xenu-directory.net/mirrors/www.whyaretheydead.net/
     
  5. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    Couple of things are sticking out for me here:

    The "outside security" guys - are they from Joe and Maria Kingi's security firm? They are long-time kulties who have provided security for the AOSH ANZO dating back to before I left the kult. Joe went pro boxing for a while there to somehow buy his Otee levels. I'm guessing a "large proportion" of their staff are kulties too. Which would explain why we are seeing such tactics from the Blackshirts. They'll have been briefed by OSA ANZO on what to do, how to do it and who to do it to.

    This kid has been charged with multiple offenses from before the actual stabbing took place. All based on what various kulties have told the police. How much "acceptable truth" has gone into the "evidence" that has led the NSW Police to officially charge this poor boy? And how much of it would stand up in a court of law with a good defense council taking on the RonBots? Were the Police were looking for a good translator AFTER they'd already charged him?

    I'm sure OSA ANZO will be sweating a lot if this goes before a judge. I'll bet they are trying all sorts of the usual tricks to get this kid to plead guilty to everything so that their story isn't publicly and officially exposed for the crock of cockie cack that we all know it is.

    This is potentially a very disasterous scenario for the kult. Not just here in Oz but around the English-speaking world (whuich makes up most of the remainder of $cientology) and, of course, Taiwan. I'm wondering how many SO members will be thrown under the Justice Bus by the Drunken Maggot before this all dies down.

    :drama:
     
  6. wigee1

    wigee1 Patron with Honors

    Was the attacker a beloved member of the church,? and what about the tek?, Domestic Dispute? Who,s the 3rd Party, Oh! i get it , Scn again.
    Granitt.
     
    dchoiceisalwaysrs likes this.
  7. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    In the "World" section of Fox...

    https://www.foxnews.com/world/scien...16-outside-australian-headquarters-police-say

    A 16-year-old boy stabbed two Church of Scientology members outside the organization's headquarters in Sydney, Australia, killing one and injuring another on Thursday, police said.
    The teen was being escorted out of the church in Sydney’s Chatswood district about 12:30 p.m. Thursday when he began attacking the two staff members with a 10-inch kitchen knife, Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) reported. It’s unclear if the 16-year-old was a member of the church, but police said he had a “lawful reason” to be there before being asked to leave.
    "On being escorted down the roadway a knife was produced and with that knife he stabbed a 24-year-old who we believe to be a Taiwanese male in the neck," Detective Chief Inspector Jones said. "He also caused some lacerations to an older gentleman also escorting him from the premises."
    (snip)
     
  8. Fred Basset

    Fred Basset Patron

    So, here is another possible angle to explain the motives behind it all.

    A typical 16 or 17 year old in Australia is commonly involved in some kind of drug taking themselves.

    Probably the parents are oblivious to this. So when the parent is going to go and get involved wit anti-drug activities and people then the son is now at some risk of getting in trouble?

    OK, so perhaps they have not lived in Aus very long and maybe culture is a little different in Taiwan, so this may not be totally accurate. But it would be a better explanation than none.
     
  9. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    They consistently emphasize that it is a domestic incident unrelated to Scientology and yet for most questions they don't have answers, but that one they are certain of.

    A good legal counsel should hone in on that point as that is the entire reason for the incident.

    My thought is that if it was a domestic dispute not involving Scientology then why did he kid go there? Why not wait till later to take it up when she came home because according to the report, the initial incident happened off the premises, a place she would be returning to later in the day or evening?

    That is a point I would be all over. Authorities say they don't know enough yet to answer questions but are certain of the cause of the incident which could only have been told to them by the church or the mother, if she was interviewed. The source of the cause of the incident is on the testimony of someone at the church. If they felt it necessary to escort him out, then why didn't they contact the authorities about the dispute that they felt was big enough to escort him away? After all, if they felt it necessary to remove him then the kid had already committed affray on the premises and they should have called the police at that moment instead of taking the law into their own hands.

    As far as I know, private security is not law enforcement and if Australian law doesn't allow you to use more than equivalent force to get someone out of your own house then what force was used to get the kid removed from the building? Was he being cooperative on being asked to leave or did they grab him and begin to remove him? What is meant by escort because in order to get him to leave without touching him he would have had to have been compliant to leaving on verbal commands only? He obviously went there with the intent of seeing his mother so, what set him off as he was being escorted down the road if he was being compliant up to the point of the incident?

    The police assume he premeditated the attack because he had the knife but who was he intending to hurt with it? Isn't it also possible he brought it as a defense because he had had prior encounters with the church? Would he have premeditated killing a security guard before he went there and why? He was there to see his mother which they say is the only reason for the incident, a problem just between the mother and himself. He could have waited till she came home to kill her if that was his intent. What motive would he have for premeditated attack on a security guard?
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  10. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    Lots of missing information.

    Not much news on the story now...

    Hopefully there is some Security Footage....that the Police can obtain.

    That might shed some more light on the situation that occurred ...

    IMO, getting facts about any extenuating circumstances...would help the kid as he is a Minor. Not so much if he was an adult.
     
  11. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  12. Aerial

    Aerial Patron with Honors

    A charge of domestic assault might aid the cult in justifying their actions in denying the son access to his mother and everything that happened as a result of that.

    Just speculation of course.
     
  13. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    From the few reports I have read approximately 10% of that age group is involved in drug taking. That seems to make it not typical although a possibility.

    One thing I am sure of is that 100% of scientologists participate in activities with scientology registrars who are highly trained in 'hard sell'. A $52 million building must have done a lot of damage to the contributors.

    Maybe the 64$ question is what is more likely to be dangerous; a 16 year old male or a scientology registrar? That might be a better question than none.
     
  14. tesseract

    tesseract Patron with Horrors

    Poor kid. :sad:
    (Yes, the "perpetrator"...)
     
  15. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    Charges are laid if there is enough information to get heard in court. I think (opinion only) that this is a way to get proceedings organised and to see if the defendant will be remanded of released on bail. My guess is that he was remanded because his mother is unsuitable to care for him at this time, depending upon her level of involvement in the matter and there is nowhere else to place him. Also depends upon possible risks if he is released.

    Afterwards the charges are either contested or uncontested by both sides as the investigation concludes. If uncontested, the court will drop the charge. Further charges can be laid at a later date (before the trial) if the need arises.

    Security guards here are subject to reasonable force laws as well. A number of them have been imprisoned for using excessive force. Strangely enough , a fair number of them come from (and are still involved in) criminal backgrounds, like bikie gangs, etc. I believe the Hells Angels here also run security companies used for private functions using their members as staff.

    What may surprise you Americans is an armed security guard here (with a special gun license) can only draw his weapon for personal defence if someone threatens him with (what could be considered) a weapon. He cannot use it to defend someone else (even his partner) or to protect property. He will potentially face severe penalties if he does so.

    It is possible (coff,coff) that it did not directly involve scientology for all we know. Maybe he went there to sort something out with his mother and made a scene, forcing the staff to evict him. Was the victim a security guard or a staffer and what were they doing at that moment?

    I hope the kid has a private lawyer. The ones from Legal Aid can only do so much with budget limitations and are not always that great.

    Just remembering that old saying- "Justice is only for those who can afford it"....
     
    JustSheila likes this.
  16. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    I believe that Scientology is claiming the guy that died....was not Staff, but rather a Cult/Member/Public /Student visiting from Taiwan. He must have spoken the same language as the Kid with the knife....

    Don't ask me to find the reference...

    My thoughts are that he said something to the Kid that set him off and brought about the deadly attack....during the "Escorting..."

    We probably won't find out what he said....IMO But also being from Taiwan, he would have known some "buttons" to push I assume.

    Or the escorting could have been manhandling...?

    Or they could have been "escorting " him to an "Isolation Room"....and he attacked to get away.

    Security Video would certainly answer a lot of questions....but doubt that will ever become public.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
    tesseract likes this.
  17. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    Fair enough but more details are needed on this domestic dispute that couldn't wait till his mother came home. To think he would go to a church armed with a knife to attack his mother because a of a domestic dispute that has nothing to do with Scientology means he had premeditated killing his mother. If he premeditated to kill his mother in public then I doubt he is concerned about the consequences or he would have done it in private. This aspect of the story doesn't make sense.
     
  18. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    It doesn't have to make sense.

    Apparently he did it.


    He will be sent to either a secure mental unit or a Juvenile detention centre (gaol) depending on the results of the psych tests and then deported as soon as his sentence is served (if not an Oz citizen).

    Nobody will be interested in what 'set him off' but I imagine many people will hear about this case and run a mile from the cult, so that at least is a positive thing.

    That victim and the boy have had their futures severely curtailed but the cult is full of idiots robots who will not have given a second genuinely caring thought about either the victim or the boy, it's all about the cults PR.

    I just hope some good comes out of this ... and that people thinking of getting involved (especially from China where the money flow currently is) will give the cult an extra wide berth because they now realise how seriously weird things get behind those gates.
     
  19. CommunicatorIC

    CommunicatorIC @IndieScieNews on Twitter

    Two thoughts. First, while I've seen no indication of this yet and am not familiar with Australian law (if any) on the subject, it is possible he could be tried as an adult, in which case he could go to prison.

    Second, the Court, prosecutor and defense will be interested in what "set him off" both during his mental health evaluation before trial and his sentencing after trial. As to his sentencing, evidence of duress, stress, etc. could lead to a lesser sentence.
     
  20. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    In every murder case there is always a motive. In this case it was a domestic dispute.

    You take the position that he murdered a 24 year old and he is guilty of murder and no one cares for the victim. Fair enough, but I think that you are looking at this that he cold bloodedly killed the man. I am not willing to go that far because, if it was over a dispute strictly between his mother, then he didn't kill the man in cold blood even though he killed him.

    As much as you may blame him for the killing, you only seem to see it as an intention on his part to kill someone and therefore he should pay the price.

    Yeah, he did kill the man but I don't believe he went there with the intent to kill, it ended up that way though. No matter the story put out it was a domestic dispute only, it wasn't. Scientology was involved because their practice is, once they have a mark, they can milk them for money and life. They use tactics like security guards to keep their marks from being brought to their sense that Scientology is no good and separated from those who they deem a threat to their practice of scamming people out of money and sanity.

    He is guilty of murder but i don't believe pre-meditated murder.

    Anyone who has been in Scientology for long enough knows their methods drive some people to do things they wouldn't because they are not islands of sanity, they are islands of insanity and pushing to spread it everywhere for their own benefit at the cost of lives.