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Stabbing @ Scio Sydney - 12/2/2019 9:42 PM Central Time USA

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Miss Ellie, Jan 3, 2019.

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  1. CommunicatorIC

    CommunicatorIC @IndieScieNews on Twitter

    All I know is what has been reported -- i.e., that it was related to a domestic dispute the prior day. Now maybe that domestic disturbance had something to do with Scientology. Some have speculated about disconnection, money issues, the 16-year-old wanting to return to his native country, etc., but right now we don't know. It also could have been that a parent imposed a curfew, and the 16-year-old got pissed and went to confront his parent where he knew the parent would be, which just happened to be the AO. If the parent had been scheduled to be somewhere else, they 16-year-old would have gone there. We don't know.

    As to why he stabbed the SO members, my current *guess* is that he wasn't allowed to see his relative and was asked to leave, or did see the relative, things got heated, and he was asked to leave. He agreed to leave rather than have the police called, but was pissed. Being escorted out, he was angry, frustrated, maybe had words with the people escorting him, and lost it. This is just speculation.

    But so far there is NO actual evidence anyone laid hands on him, or he was defending himself.

    I also don't know why we have to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who shows up with a 10 inch kitchen knife.
     
  2. CommunicatorIC

    CommunicatorIC @IndieScieNews on Twitter

    No, I am not. What I'm saying is based on two things. First, the news reports. Second, how the COS currently handles people it wants to leave the premises. The current practice is that 8C is NOT used to remove a person from the premises, and that such a person is NOT touched. This is for reasons of criminal and civil liability, and because it is simply not necessary. The person is asked to leave, and told that if they don't leave the police will be called to remove them from the premises. If the person leaves voluntarily, they are escorted out without touching them. If the person doesn't leave voluntarily, the police are called to remove them.

    The above is consistent with the facts that have been reported so far. Obviously, it is possible new facts will come out. Maybe the 16-year-old will say the SO members attacked him for some insane reason and he was defending himself. But right now, all that has been reported is that he was asked or told to leave, and they were escorting off the premises. The place of the stabbing was far down the driveway. (I've seen the picture.) Why the hell would the SO members attack him if he was leaving?
     
  3. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    Is it illegal to carry a knife in Australia?

    What if HCO was "bringing order..." Would he have the right to defend himself against 2 grown men...?
     
  4. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    "Current Policy of the Church of Scientology...." (handling people to leave)

    You mean like the Hole at Int Base and locking undesirables up for YEARS?

    You mean like how the Cult handled that girl McPherson in Clearwater that died?

    I seriously doubt that a 16 year old kid of a Parent that is on lines at an AO has never been on lines himself... ( that is a speculation...)

    All I'm saying is that for the Police to come out and say Publicly (at this point of an investigation) that it had nothing to do with the Cult is absolutely ridiculous!!

    It seems to me you are bending over backwards to say the Cult wasn't involved in this in anyway....and to me, they are obviously involved.

    There is a dead Sea Org member ....and he was "escorting" the kid.....how can they not be involved?
     
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  5. CommunicatorIC

    CommunicatorIC @IndieScieNews on Twitter

    I don't know if it legal to carry a 10 inch knife in Australia. Even if it is, the fact he was carrying it does not look good.

    In theory, if HCO was "bringing order" he might have a right to use deadly force defend himself against two grown men who were attacking him IF he reasonably believed he was in danger of death or serious bodily harm. There are two problems with this theory.

    First, there is no evidence n to support it. None so far.

    Secondly, even as speculation it makes no sense. The crime scene photo is below. He was leaving. They were far down the driveway. Why the hell would the SO people start "bringing order" on a 16-year-old who was leaving? And do so to the point where he would be justified using deadly force?

    I think I'm as critical of Scientology as anyone, and tweet and cross-post such criticism. But really, a 16-year-old brings a 10 inch knife to visit a family member, winds up stabbing someone to death and cutting another person, and in the absence of any supporting evidence people are going to say it was the fault of the two people who got stabbed and cut?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
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  6. CommunicatorIC

    CommunicatorIC @IndieScieNews on Twitter

    I don't deny anything about the hole. But how the COS deals with things in private, in great isolation, with SO members is quite different than how it deals with members of the public in non-private, high profile locations such an Org generally open to the public. How the COS deals with public at an Org or AO is quite different that how it deals with SO at Gold Base.

    And as I indicated above, it seems to me you bending over backwards to blame the actual stabbing victims in the absence of any evidence.

    Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the underlying dispute involved Scientology -- e.g., disconnection, money, wanting to go home, the kid being coerced to join staff or the SO, etc. But not only do I see no evidence, I'd be shocked given what evidence we do know if the SO members did anything that would justify him pulling a knife and cutting and stabbing them.
     
  7. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    Screen Shot 2019-01-03 at 4.15.05 AM.png This looks like a friendly Cult Security guy...( in black...) at the grand opening ceremony of the location....employed at AO SH ANZO.
    (joking...)

    Perhaps the kid knew about the Soundproof rooms with "rubber walls."
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
  8. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    All I'm saying is the Police and Media are putting out a " only a domestic dispute" story...and that the "Cult is not involved"....story....and where is the Investigation?
     
  9. CommunicatorIC

    CommunicatorIC @IndieScieNews on Twitter

    I get your point. The only thing I can say in defense of the police on that specific point is that I've read and heard them say, "It is early....."

    The one thing that gives me hope is that the 16-year-old will tell the truth, not the relative (whether parent, aunt or uncle, brother or sister, etc.).

    By this I mean, assuming the dispute was Scientology related (e.g., disconnection, money, the kid being pressured to the SO or staff somewhere, the kid just wanting to go home), I could see the relative lying and saying, "Oh, it wasn't Scientology related. I imposed a curfew, and he got mad." I'm hopeful the 16-year-old will tell the police, if it is true, "No, I was upset because my relative was forcing me to join the SO....."
     
  10. Freeminds

    Freeminds Bitter defrocked apostate

    Another death to be laid at the feet of the mentally ill founder of the Scientology UFO cult. Try to spin it any way you will, but Hubbardism tears families apart and it ruins lives. Just like always.
     
  11. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    We all know the cult will try to spin this so that they are innocent of anything and everything ... apparently the 16 year old (who looks big for his age BTW) went there today after an 'incident' occurred yesterday and he took a sodding great knife along ...

    None of us know why and we may never know, but what we definitely know is the cult will be working overtime to spin it.
     
  12. Leland

    Leland Crusader

  13. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    ITYIWT where did you see a picture of the kid? ( to estimate his size?)

    Edited: Oh, if that was him in the first video on the ABC story...yea, he does look of a good size.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
  14. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    [​IMG]
    The guy in blue must be an OT8 judging by his infectious smile. :D Or maybe just infectious!
     
  15. oneonewasaracecar

    oneonewasaracecar Gold Meritorious Patron

    It is a serious crime and very uncommon. It is normally associated with gang crime but I am not aware of any Taiwanese gangs in Sydney (I lived there for many years). I suspect he has serious mental health issues.

    Since around 2010-2011, most of the Sea Org at the main ANZO org in Sydney are Taiwanese and most of them are pretty young as everyone blew because of the Chanology protests. This is at the Chatswood Org, which is 20 minutes away from the main Sydney ANZO org. I'm not sure what goes on at the Chatswood org or how many people go through it. It opened after we stopped protesting at the other main org in Central Sydney. From memory, I think when it opened it was mainly for Taiwanese who wanted upper level bridge stuff they couldn't do at the mission in Taiwan.

    Because of the age of the boy who allegedly did the stabbing, I suspect the mother had only recently joined the Sea Org or staff (no articles have made it clear which). My guess is she is on staff rather than Sea Org as she has a dependent child. Maybe she is a body router.

    Chatswood, where the org is is a very expensive place to live. It is unlikely she could afford to live there so it is likely that the mother works long hours at the org, travelling to home, paying rent and having a second job.
     
  16. oneonewasaracecar

    oneonewasaracecar Gold Meritorious Patron

    I don't recognize that guy and I used to know most of the security, sea org and staff by face. I wonder if some of the staff for Chatswood came from Melbourne. Any Melbournites know?
     
  17. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    He doesn't even look Ausie to me, so maybe he's a SO member assigned from Poland or ethnic Albania.
     
  18. oneonewasaracecar

    oneonewasaracecar Gold Meritorious Patron

    Maybe. They do have some Sea Org from Europe as well as the Taiwanese.

    That being said he looks like an Aussie beer guzzler to me but he also looks like a Russian beer guzzler too. Australia has had Eastern European immigration for a very long time. But I think if he is not from Melbourne you are probably right.
     
  19. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    ^^^

    You've destroyed my image of Crocodile Dundee with this information about knives being illegal in Australia.... :( I'm shocked!

    Yes, it certainly opens lots of questions about what status the Taiwanese Cult Members in Australia are living under...

    I have no idea.

    Are they Sponsored by the Cult?

    If they are "Sponsored" by the Cult....?

    If they are employed by the Cult....is what the Cult pays really enough money to live on? Is this even considered by the Australian laws?

    Are they legally allowed to work in Australia..?

    If the Mother came to work for the Cult....what is the status of her dependent child? Is the child allowed to work? Was the parent required to show any sort of ability of monetary support for her dependent while in Australia?

    Does the Cult take away their passports as I've heard they do in Clearwater to the foreign workers there....

    I also read that about 50% of the Cult Staff in Australia are from Taiwan.

    There was the earlier case of the Taiwanese girl there ....that was put in Cult Isolation....and broke a window with her hand....then ended up in a Hospital.
    I believe she said she had been "trafficked" to Australia by the Cult...

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02...ogy-denies-holding-woman-in-isolation/4539658

    I have many of the same questions about the Eastern Europeans and Russians I've heard that work for the Cult in Clearwater Florida....

    I guess in the States they are brought in under some sort of Religious worker status...but I've no idea what that means...or what their rights are under that sort of situation.
     
  20. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    I also find it hard to believe that this 16 year old dependent of a Cult Member On Lines at an AO or SH....has not at some point been onlines himself.

    The police stated "he had a legal right to be there..." which to me sound like gobbley gook for: he was a Cult Member also.

    WTF does that mean...."he had a legal right to be there."

    That Police Inspectors public pronouncements to the Press kinda pissed me off, if anyone hasn't noticed.
     
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