Thank you to Alanzo

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Lulu Belle, Dec 15, 2007.

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  1. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    I read your posts on ARS.

    I've always had a lot of respect for you, but reading what you said there has given me even more.

    You really are an incredibly smart guy.

    :thumbsup:
     
  2. petraph33

    petraph33 Patron with Honors

    Dear LuLu could you please provide a link to that website? thanks.
    Petra
     
  3. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

  4. petraph33

    petraph33 Patron with Honors

  5. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    Just reading through the ARS stuff and a though occured to me....

    Lets just turn tarbaby's taunts around.

    He calls Emma mommy, well.....what the hecks wrong with that valence?

    I sure wouldnt mind her nursing me! (sorry)

    Really, the good moms provide the safety and security for thier little ones to find out about life. A place to grow, nurturement.

    Dennis has paid Emma the highest compliment possible!

    Although tarBABY seems to be trying to play with the teenagers....

    alex
     
  6. Alanzo

    Alanzo Destroyer of Worlds

    Wow. Thanks, Lulu.

    I think I have a pretty good idea of what Emma is trying to do here. And what we're all trying to do. And what Dennis is saying about her, and us, really fuckin pisses me off.

    No way I'm going to stand for that.

    Or let what he's saying stand unopposed.
     
  7. Emma

    Emma Mother of Dragons Administrator

    Yes.

    Thank you Alanzo.

    I'm finding it very hard to know where to draw the line in publically defending myself, ESMB & you guys.

    I appreciate your posts more than you can imagine.

    :kiss:
     
  8. gomorrhan

    gomorrhan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well, oppose away.

    We become what we resist.

    I won't be opposing, but I will be looking to find the truth of situations.
     
  9. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    Emma and Alanzo, I love and respect you both dearly, but I think you are in error in opposing Dennis. :blowkiss:

    You know how stubborn he is. He won't succomb. This is the characteristic that enabled him to take on the CofS. As far as possible, I think we should leave him in peace, even if he snaps and snarls about ESMB.

    ESMB has up until now been a wonderful example of open, free communication. It does not need defending because it speaks for itself.

    If Dennis snarls about ESMB, it will make some new people visit us. Those who like open, fair communication will see Dennis is in error. Those who don't like open, communication well, that's their problem. :eyeroll:
     
  10. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    One doesn't have to oppose Dennis, or support him.

    One simply needs to express one's viewpoint as necessary for the greatest good.

    If a dog has rabies, you don't have to go into opposition to it. You just protect yourself and see if a cure can be found for the malady.

    .
     
  11. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Alanzo did make some good points in that post although I don't agree with everything he says there. (but who does agree with everyone all the time? Just doesn't happen)

    But I think that this is a situation where people aren't always seeing where others are coming from.

    I don't think Dennis is seeing what Emma has to go through or why she might do what she does. Personally, I think there are times when two parties may NEVER agree on something and that maybe then it's better to agree to disagree.

    Goes to my adage: "however it seems to me may not be how it seems to the other person".

    So I don't think that Alanzo totally gets where Dennis is coming from, perhaps.

    I think Alanzo or anyone else is totally free to come in to a.r.s. or even speak here about what Dennis said, but it cuts two ways.

    For one thing, aren't there now and haven't there been a number of posts on this forum that were and are negative about a.r.s.?

    There are.

    If we can be negative about a forum here, so can other people.

    But our recourse is to reply and say what we think, to counter with our own arguments.

    I support Dennis' right to free speech and to say what he did. And the right of others to talk about Dennis, a.r.s., OCMB, cows on the moon, whatever.

    Although I think on this one Emma's right and has done a really great job, and I do not agree with Dennis' perspective on this - I am not going to diss Dennis for posting about ESMB on a.r.s.
     
  12. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat


    Fluffy,

    Dennis didn't just attack the forum.

    He attacked Emma.

    Personally.

    I no longer participate in or recommend ESMB. The Administrator does not support free speech and treats posters as if they are unruly children at a sleep-over. I brought these matters to her attention and she to threatened to delete my posts. She tired to make a deal with me offering: "If you will quit ‘invalidating me’ I will reprimand (poster) for attacking you." This shows a cultish mentality and a tendency for power-tripping. I don’t believe this forum to be healthy for ex-cultists.



    ARS is an unmoderated newsgroup. It belongs to no one. Criticism of ARS is not personal.

    ESMB is a board owned and run by an individual. Who, by the way, considered Dennis a friend, trusted him, defended him, and started a thread when he arrived here about how delighted she was that he was here.

    There are some of us, myself included, who put up with a lot of verbal abuse and nasty shit from Dennis.

    And let it go.

    Out of respect for freedom of speech and the right of others to be here who we didn't necessarily like or agree with.

    Out of respect for the board and the person who runs it.

    Maybe you don't see a difference between the two.

    I do.
     
  13. Alanzo

    Alanzo Destroyer of Worlds

    All this "you become what you resist" is just a bunch of bullshit.

    It seems that the term I used - "unopposed" - restimulated a bunch of L Ron crap in everyone and now we're all getting our GPMs in a bunch.

    I'm going to say whatever I want.

    And I'm never going to become Dennis Erlich.

    God.
     
  14. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    I doubt if any of us (or anyone else) is. On the other hand, there's really not much about 'oppose' in his case, because there's nothing to 'oppose'. Maybe what people might feel is 'bad PR' for ESMB, but, spatting on ARS or sulking here isn't going to do much about that. It's something that always bugs me; that people claim 'defending myself' (or somebody else) when they get into it on ARS. It's not 'defense' because it doesn't do anything. There seems to be some kind of vain hope that 'attacks' or even 'dogpiling' might 'shudder' someone into silence, but, anyone who's been around Scientology and OSA isn't very likely to be shuddered by mean words. At best, when the factions and dogpiles get really geared up, you get such silliness as the 'Minton Wars'.

    Same goes for the 'anti-spam' crap trap that some fall into; it doesn't do shit.

    Now I admit, I'd get a bit of shadenfreude out of watching various factions of Dennis' 'friends' and 'former friends' getting into a pecking party, but, that's just juvenile on my part and probably not all to likely.

    Fuck it.

    Zinj
     
  15. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    If the maxim "you become what you resist" were true why would CoS go beserk attacking psychs like they do? And "apostates"?

    The only way I can see this happening is if you are really fighting a person (or type of person) and consider it a real life or death proposition, fail miserably to create an effect on them, get your ass kicked, go into apathy and....................... if you can't beat 'em join 'em.
     
  16. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    Does right to free speech means one has the right to be irrational?

    But when one is being irrational, is one really there?

    .
     
  17. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    You won't if you don't resist him. :D

    .
     
  18. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    The right to free speech includes the right to be wrong and to be irrational or a jerk or whatever.

    And, yes, Lulu, I do know what the difference is. No offense, but I do.

    He was unhappy with the moderator actions. I happen to think he's incorrect there. But I also think he has the right to discuss it from his point of view. And Emma happens to be the moderator who took the actions.

    I truly think her actions were right but I in no way support any implication that Dennis or anybody else shouldn't discuss her actions and their thoughts about them on this or any other venue.

    So, yes, I know the difference but my point is above.
     
  19. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat


    I want you to read a part of what Dennis wrote about Emma on ARS.

    My "warning" about ESMB was meant in two ways. First, because my bs
    detectors seem much more sensitive than the average recovering ex, I
    wondered if maybe some nefarious influence had their "hooks into" what
    seems, on the surface, to be a calm, nurturing, self-help message
    board. It seems I was expected to be cowed by a bullying, slanted
    moderator's public and private threats and personal attacks. So
    imagine how the average ex-cultist would feel being pressured like
    that.


    Now I admit the possibility that these might simply be the symptoms
    someone who is weak, unfamiliar with having power over people and so
    needs to be vindictive if her flaws are pointed out. In which case
    it's merely an example of baser human nature and the
    predator/protector instinct kicking in. And if so I can only hope she
    calms down and begins acting more maturely at some point in the
    future.


    This is not a poster discussing a moderator's actions.

    This is a nasty piece of shit tearing apart a person on a public forum on a very personal level who thought he was her friend.

    I call them as I see them. I am getting more than a little tired of people trying to explain away this kind of behavior because they think Dennis is some sort of fucking icon.

    Well, guess what.

    I don't.

    Any more than I think that the King of Greed Larry Wollersheim is.

    I don't buy any of this this for a fucking minute, and I never will.

    It's interesting that it seems to be people who either have never been in Scientology or never been in the Sea Org are the ones who fall for this crap.

    I was in the Sea Org. I was in later than both Dennis and Larry. I was in the throes of the Miscavige psychosis, which occurred after both of them left. I can tell you that I went through far more hell than either one of them did.

    There are people who were in the SO and did shitty things as a result of the pressure they were in when they were there.

    There are people who were in the SO who did shitty things and are out and are still doing shitty things.

    Because they are just that way.

    I think some people need to open their eyes and start seeing the difference.
     
  20. gomorrhan

    gomorrhan Gold Meritorious Patron

    I agree that it getting personal like that, and the heavy eval involved, required moderation. Dennis can feel free to speak his mind, but he should be prepared that when he gives voice to his perspectives, others will disagree, sometimes. Disagreement, even vocal disagreement, doesn't have to mean he shuts up, or changes his perspective. But it should be an indicator that he should check himself, inspect why he's running into such disagreement, and perhaps cut back the personal affrontery.