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The anti-Scientologist

Discussion in 'Stories From Inside Scientology' started by Veda, Aug 20, 2019.

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  1. StatPush

    StatPush Patron

    I agree, the lies and deception really irk me. There needs to be a Public Health Warning. Buyer Beware.

    Regarding the Catholic Church, its certainly less demanding and far less dangerous. The comparison is a bit unfair, since I believe Scientology to be a pop psychology multi level marketing business pretending to be a religion.
     
  2. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    One could argue that the fact that the Co$ has continued to defraud people for well over 65 years is the exact reason it should not be allowed to exist. With or without our beloved "hairman of the board".

     
    JustSheila and Lurker5 like this.
  3. StatPush

    StatPush Patron

    I can relate to much of what you've said. The thought of a fanatical, "unreasonable" KSWer in-charge of the justice system is frightening.

    In addition to Weinstein et al,, I would add Trump. The common denominator seems to be they are all bullies.

    Interesting observation on the moral compass. Towards the end of time in Scn, I really felt like I was losing my sense of humanity. I had turned into a good, no-sympathy Scnist. Horrible.
     
    Operating DB likes this.
  4. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    I sincerely believe that anyone who brings their kids into Scientology should be removed as custodians of those kids. If the stories of what's been going on for 65 years isn't enough to prove that, I don't know what whacked out, crazy parenting could be defined as. Period.

    I also believe that anyone who practices auditing, whether they warn the victim that they might go crazy, or whether the victim willingly wants to, should be put to prison for illegal practice of mental health.

    I believe that any organization that practices shunning or disconnection in any way, should be illegal.

    The fact that these points still needs to be argued is, put plain, stupid. I don't see how anyone can defend the actual practice of being a Scientologist, with all that it brings.

    Whether its in the "church", "Free-zone" or the "Indies". Doesn't matter, its been proven far too many times that what Scientology is, it's crazy, it's dangerous to the mind and unhealthy as fuck. I'll try and remember that the next time I try to reach for the middle ground.

    The people who are, or were, responsible for keeping the mindfuck rolling for over 65 years, if and when possible, should be held responsible by the authorities. Whenever that's possible. I see no point defending or going after anyone in particular, it is what it is. I can personally resent that some of us got out easy, off the hook, but it is what it is.

    I know a lot of people disagree with me on some or all of it, but that's how I see it, but what's the point arguing where we all stand in this for well over 5 weeks, apart from ensuring Alanzos crusade doesn't get the "final say" in how this beautiful smorgasbord of ideas ended?

    I'd rather focus on pin pointing the mindfuck we all know as Scientology and trying to help people get out if it, rather then trying to define what an anti-whatever is.

    That and boobs. Never underestimate the power that a perfect cleavage has on people.

    Anyhows, tomorrow I'll be good again, got a list of threads I'm looking for, some of that mind blowing shit that helped me go free some odd ten years ago. Hopefully it'll help someone today. If not, I flippin love rummaging through those old threads.

    Also, I'm not trying to stir some more shit up. I just wish we could all just sit back and enjoy the ride as the Church implodes in a spectacular fashion. I guess somewhere along the way to that, people forgot why most of us ended up here. Either that or the only ones of us left are the nutty ones, I dread being one of the nutty ones so I prefer to think of us as the hardcore crowd.

    The stayer uppers all night long.

    EDIT: Before I forget, @Alanzo and any others who believes that there's an "anti side to this, when you drive past an org or converse with a Scientologist: Should the kids and the people who go crazy be protected, or is it the Scientology practitioners who should be protected?
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
    dchoiceisalwaysrs and Gib like this.
  5. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    wtf are you are talking about. For gawds sake.

    I don't think you were ever in?

    Mike Rinder constantly posts on his blog how the so called church of scientology is still trying to clear planet.

    Well, it ain't happening, don't you agree?
     
  6. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I disagree, the COS should cease to exist.
     
    freethinker likes this.
  7. Gib

    Gib Crusader

  8. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Thanks for the link. I had read half the complaint and just finished it now.

    The main idea I get from the (alleged) detailed behaviour of the perps defendants -- which, in my experience, all seems perfectly common and "business as usual" -- is their overarching consideration of being above the law.

    Paul
     
    Lurker5 likes this.
  9. StatPush

    StatPush Patron

    I talked about a lot of things. Will need specifics.
    30 years, 6 years on staff
    Of course they aren't clearing the planet.
     
  10. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    True, but they are clearing bank accounts all over the world, which is much closer to their true purpose anyhow.
     
    StatPush likes this.
  11. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    If they aren't clearing the planet, then shouldn't this be false advertising by the COS?
     
    Lurker5 likes this.
  12. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    here's something to consider.

    Do other churches send you mail thru the USPS?

    Only scientolgy does.

    Has anybody here received mail from the mormons, from the Christians, etc?
     
  13. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    I like fraud better.:D
     
    Gib likes this.
  14. Little David

    Little David Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes.
     
  15. StatPush

    StatPush Patron

    Okay, this is getting silly.

    So, CoS should not be allowed to exist because they use a government service, a service that is available to all?

    Listen, I will agree with you that the church should not be allowed to lie, deceive or defraud the public. But, there are rules and processes which govern how a democratic society deals with this type of activity.

    With every Clear they make (whether real or imagined), is them demonstrating they are "clearing the planet", albeit slowly. But, all of this is protected religious activity.

    What is not protected activity is financial and credit card fraud. Just in the past year, Tony Ortega reported several instances of overt financial fraud orchestrated by church staff members. These were recent events, months old, and well within the statue of limitations. There were witnesses, real victims (a couple of them elderly), plus a complete paper trail including submitting a financial application with intent to defraud. Effectively, they were caught "red-handed". Mind you, this is not new behaviour for the church. From past experience I believe the church has engaged in this type of activity for decades.

    So why no criminal charges? Why was there no call for criminal charges?

    It is ironic that people have been accusing CoS of being an criminal organisation, but have been unable to bring actual charges. And here's present day, well documented criminal activity that goes unprosecuted.

    What is the deal with that?
     
  16. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Yes, COS commits financial and credit card fraud.

    You seem to be less well-read on its humanitarian crimes, though, such as human trafficking, child abuse, child neglect, elder abuse and neglect, extortion, blackmail and ripping apart families. These are also well documented. Links to dox are on this and many other threads, or you can just Google "Scientology lawsuits" or "Scientology crimes." Crimes are not protected activity, even for a supposed "church."
     
    Lurker5 likes this.
  17. StatPush

    StatPush Patron

    Let's not jump to conclusions. I did not say financial and credit card fraud where their only crimes. I was purposefully staying focused.

    Your accusations of "human trafficking, child abuse, child neglect, elder abuse and neglect, extortion, blackmail and ripping apart families", may be true, however, until you have an actual criminal conviction in a court of law, they remain accusations. Over the years many have tried (and failed) in civil court to establish this, but its a long way to a criminal conviction.

    My point is credit card fraud, as criminal charges are concerned, are low-hanging fruit. And there appears to be compelling evidence (in the recent cases), where there was a reasonable chance of a criminal charge. It would be a small victory, and could establish a precedent for future cases.

    Everyone is convinced that CoS is a criminal organisation, guilty of real crimes - lots of them. Other than Snow White, there has been nothing which actually supports this assertion (no charges, no convictions). Immorality is not a crime.
     
  18. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    You have to thoroughly understand the banking system to understand why. Collections are big business.
     
  19. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    We are ex-Scientologists. We saw, we experienced, we know.

    You, on the other hand, wish to refute all the testimonies and court cases that were settled out of court or are still ongoing.

    There is a lot of reading to do on ESMB and elsewhere where docs have been provided. If you want to stay focused on financial and credit card fraud, that's no problem. If you are interested in actually knowing and not guessing or presupposing innocence about Scientology's other crimes, they are well documented.
     
  20. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    It isn't a matter of irony. 



It is an effective strategy.





    Most people when thinking of membership in a religion do not associate it with the deliberate creation of a body of documentation that protects the religion from litigation. I think the first thing they have people do now is after watching an introductory video about Scientology they sign something saying they understand and agree Scientology is a religion. Scientologists proceed to sign similar and progressively stricter agreements and waivers when they start another service or start services at another org. Each org is set up as a separate corporation. Scientologists sign NDAs and bonds both as public and staff. With each service completion Scientologists write up "wins" saying how great it was which can be used to counter a later change of position. So being a Scientologist is literally a contractual relationship.
 


    
Scientology is a full immersion milieu environment where things like language, associates and time become dedicated to Scientology to the exclusion of other things.


    
Scientologists are indoctrinated into KSW which is by definition fundamentalism. They believe that it is their only path to spiritual freedom and if they cross Scientology they will be condemned to not remembering past lives or not being able to control reincarnation for eternity. 


    It is difficult to find Scientology policy. KSW is their most senior (public) policy but if you run a Google image search for it it is extremely difficult to find in it's entirety. By all rights they should be handing it out like The Way To Happiness booklets but they seem to be embarrassed to reveal policies that every public Scientologists should have access to.

    
Scientologists lie (tell an acceptable truth) and obfuscate to protect the organization and other Scientologists. It is policy that Scientologists cannot sue or report other Scientologists to non-Scientology authorities. They must go through internal procedures. This makes it difficult to find reliable witnesses.


    
There are a lot of coercive and manipulative techniques embedded in Scientology. If you cross them they declare you a Suppressive Person and everyone must disconnect from you. The internal judicial procedures are harsh, arbitrary and based on a lot of woo. Their Fair Game policy is essentially gang stalking. Scientologists give them a lot of personal and embarrassing or even incriminating information in auditing and security check sessions and staff life history questionnaires. This can be used against them.

    

There is a lot of internal compartmentalization of information, censorship, misinformation, redirection and shifting of blame. They use confidential special projects to conduct operations outside of normal organizational lines. Different strata and experience levels don’t know what the other is doing and don’t see or know about actionable crimes.


    
Scientology is an asset stripping operation which depletes resources needed to conduct a protracted lawsuit. People leaving staff may have neglected medical needs and their priority is to simply survive and get reestablished in the outside world.

    Scientology cuts short or completely replaces outside education. Education is a factor in deciding to take action or upon a legal strategy.

    
Scientology has developed legal strategies to weaponize the legal system and operate without good faith.


    
Scientology safe points or co-opts local law enforcement and agencies by giving them donations, having them participate in events, placing their people on committees and other PR efforts.


    
Public awareness of Scientology as a cult and it’s abuses has increased significantly in the last 10 - 15 years. Hubbard said that the complexity of Scientology served as a kind of defense and he was right. For anyone who has tried to explain it to a non-Scientologist it is extremely difficult and gets into the weeds quickly and public awareness and support for issues is a factor in litigation.


    
Scientology uses religious cloaking. The IRS has given them tax exempt status and they can claim First Amendment protection. They form alliances with religious groups and co-opt other group’s agendas to lobby in support of legislation that protects them or opposes national and international restrictions.


    
In other words it is more like a mafia than a church except as far as government agencies are concerned it is a piker compared to other mafias and government agencies have a very poor track record of dealing with larger more violent mafias as it is. The thing that sets Scientology apart from other mafias is it developed an effective program to operate in the open regardless of the "rules and processes which govern how a democratic society deals with this type of activity."
     
    Veda likes this.