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The attempt to see my father (SO staff Syd)

Discussion in 'Australia & New Zealand Pickets and Protests' started by ttamaad, May 6, 2009.

  1. HappyGirl

    HappyGirl Gold Meritorious Patron

    :bigcry: :bighug:
  2. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Aw Bill...I was right there on that park bench with you. :bigcry:

    Some points that are worth noting though.

    The fact that you did, in the final moments, connect. That will stay with him, in some form.

    The fact that he needs a minder. Because you have spoken out about this relationship, it is a PR flap. He probably doesn't have a clue about most of what has happened, and the intention will be to keep it that way. The level of paranoia is intense indeed.

    He is also being "handled". Some time back there was a posting about the exact steps used...I'll try and find it, or if someone else could help that would be good.

    Bless you and yours. :)
  3. Once bitten

    Once bitten Patron Meritorious

    Thanks for trying Bill

    Just to fill people in - ttmaad & I were married for 18 years, and I am the mother of the girl in the centre of this story, which is totally tragic.

    Here is an old man - ok, his choice to be doing what he's doing, his choice to give up being a grand father, his choice to 'save the planet' rather than watch his grandchildren grow up - but here is an old man on the point of a family reunion being pressured by this monstrous excuse for a religion to change the venue, and make it all just too hard to happen. They then try to blame Billy when he did the right thing, heard alarm bells and flagged it. Wisely.

    I know Bill Gray Snr. I never really got on with him, but he was a family man who tried to do his best for his kids and his family. Doing scn was what he thought was doing his best, and that's fine with me. I don't have a beef with that. But what Bill Gray Snr is doing now is NOT scientology, and to prevent him from realising this, OSA has to enforce minders and interfere.

    Just so that people know, this was the second time of trying to see Bill Gray Snr. I brought our daughter over in January and we tried to see him then. I spoke to Cyrus and said please could he pass a message on to Bill Gray. He said he would. He assured me that Bill Gray would get the message that we were there, that we had come to see him, and that his 16 year old grand daughter, whom he probably didn't even know existed, was there outside, unmasked. I was unmasked as well while I was speaking to Cyrus. I don't know if he received the message or not. Our daughter has been caught up in an ugly perversion of facts, and now knows first hand the evils of scn. She was willing to give it the benefit of the doubt, as both Billy & I have tried to bring our children up to make decisions for themselves based on what they see and experience. How does this situation stand for an impressionable 16 year old, OSA?

    You haven't just shit all over a family wanting to get together, but you have sprayed the ceiling and walls and then walked this shit right through any semblance of reasonableness on your part you were hoping to portray. YOu can blame the protests, the Anons, what ever you like, but it was you who made it impossible for this meeting, and you know only too well why you did it. Yep. Grandfathers who miss their grand children growing up wonder and dream, and when that dream almost comes to reality it's just a bit too close for OSA. Does Bill Gray know too much? WHat are you afraid of?

    Another point. We have three children. The older two couldn't give a flying fuck about seeing Bill Gray snr at this time, it's just our 16 year-old who wanted to. We were doing it for her, and so that Bill Gray snr could see his beautiful grand daughter who carries his blood in her veins.

    Shame on you OSA. Shame.
  4. Carmel

    Carmel Crusader

    Well said Gen! :thumbsup:
  5. cantsay

    cantsay Patron Meritorious

    When I was in, my mother was anti-scn. I wasnt allowed to talk to her or meet her without getting approval and drilling from OSA or the ED first. Thanks to their "handlings" the situation with my mother got worse than it had ever been. They themselves, and through me and my husbands family, antagonised the hell out of her.

    The thing is, at the time I knew that what was going on wasnt ok. I was only 18, so I can give myself a little leeway for being a stupid teenager and going along with it. If Bill has any love of family whatsoever, he will know he has blown it. In the end, it was his choice to go along with the people in the background. There is always a choice.

    I have apologised to my family about what I put them through when I was on staff, I treated them like rubbish. And I take responsibility for the fact that I chose to do so, despite how convincing the church is and how young I was. I knew the difference between right and wrong, I cant deny that.

    Im not surprised that OSA made the meeting impossible. That he doenst see you at all is the best outcome for them. I hope at some point in the future he realises what he has missed out on.
  6. Wisened One

    Wisened One Crusader

    Mods please Delete, duplicate, sorry!
  7. Wisened One

    Wisened One Crusader

    I hope OSA's fuckin' PROUD of themgoddamned selves for breaking up another family!

    Oh, but THAT'S right, scn DOESN'T break up families, Nooooo! :grouch:
  8. Human Again

    Human Again Silver Meritorious Patron

    What on earth do they think they gain my being so incompassionate?

    Talk about "Other fish to fry"! What the F^%k business is it of the church whether or not Bill Gray Snr get's to see his granddaughter?

    Are they thinking that Bill is so DANGEROUS that a single meeting with him and his Dad will cause trouble?

    I expect his Dad is OT ninety nine or something, trained to within an inch of his life and they percieve that he cannot withstand a twenty minute get together with Billy and his 16 year old daughter??????????? ( needs a minder to even up the numbers? Who announced the war?)

    Sanest group on the planet? LOL!
  9. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    Sorry it didn't turn out nice for you and your daughter my friend.

    I had many conversations with OSA ANZO in my days of doubt and there was always someone listening in and adding in their questions.

    It was a handful of nails into the coffin each time that happened.

    I don't understand why the hell would they want to change it to the Town Hall? More chance to take photos/plant someone next to you? Doesn't make sense.

    I do suggest you let the nice coppers at Glebe know what happened - in detail. So that they know just what happened to their hard work. Please do this - the more the truth gets out there, the better it is for everyone involved.

    Ultimately even for OSA:D
  10. Sir Facer

    Sir Facer Patron with Honors

    OSA....A PARANOID LOT......

    Does OSA think they are the FBI or what?? Do they honestly think that you would kidnap your dad or something....They just can't seem to keep their shit together and the continuos line of "we dont split families up" is once again being corrected by their own actions, OSA are so into disconnection its never been so black & white.

    Great post as this is the exact thing they do, It's certainly not saving the planet.

    If OSA & the Church members spent more time on actually helping others rather than spending so much time atacking anyone who exposestheir gross crimes as splattered all over this board, they may actually pass for a religion, however once again they just keep proving they can't just look at themselves to find the real demise of their own CULT.

    Sounds like your father will begin to see how riduiculous this whole scene was and it may be just enough for him to see the light come through.......

    Trust me the continuous paranoid behaviour from the Church eventually gets the followers to start to get the realisation that the group is just really screwed up.

    To have a minder to be present when you just want to have a family meeting is the most cultish action I have ever heard. So glad this is being exposed.
  11. Once bitten

    Once bitten Patron Meritorious

    I actually think that they realsed that when Bill Gray snr saw his beautiful healthy and happy grand daughter with her Dad, that he would realise that scn is a con. He would realise that he has wasted the last 20 odd years of his life, and he would crumble. He would see his son, his first born, who has been named after him, and our daughter together enjoying eachother's company, and he would think about his scummy sorry life, and wish it was different.

    And that's what I reckon OSA is afraid of.

    And Scooter - I think that's a good idea.
  12. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    Damn! - Bleh.. But the outcome was predictable.. Damn anyway!!

    The idiots thought that Bill Gray Snr would probably be 'made PTS' during the meeting and leave the cult.. Which is not unthinkable, but that's his prerogative. If he decides to leave that's his right.

    The curious thing about this is that CoS and OSA thinks that his son and daughter can 'control' him and that they mustn't do that. More curious still, is that as scientologists we accepted to be controlled this way. Rationale being that the 'data' that we may hear was 'entheta' and 'enturbulating' - In fact a scientologist believe that he can have a hypnotic suggestion (engram or implant) restimulated, and thus lose control of himself.

    The minder they wanted there was to keep him chaperoned during the meeting. And to control the talking..

    The police did most emphatically NOT demand or suggest the minder! - They have no interest.. The minder was OSA's idea, as per policy.. And they do have an ungodly interest!

    Possibly Bill Gray Snr was told by OSA that this was a police request... This little fib would avert Bill Snr to blame OSA for it.

    Changing the place for the meeting at the last minute is 'fieldcraft' meant to foil some percieved enemy plan. OSA probably believed that he was about to be forcibly abducted by a ferocious gang of 'deprogrammers'.. They may have fed this paranoia to Bill Snr... I get a 'whiff' of this by Bill Snrs anciety to have many people around.

    Aren't they a scared bunch of nervous chickens?

    But this 'incident' may cause Bill Gray Snr to think.. Just being witness to the talking about this type of thing in the Guardian's Office made me start to!

  13. Kookaburra

    Kookaburra Gold Meritorious Patron

    I've been puzzling over this last minute change of venue. I don't think it was Bill Sr's idea. This was surely fed to him by OSA. I don't blame Billy for sensing danger. I reckon they were up to no good. So they wanted a VERY crowded place at the last minute. They would have had plenty of time to set something up. A crowd means they would be able to get their people in close without being observed. Maybe have someone pick a fight with Billy, then have half a dozen "concerned public" baw to the police in typical Scientology style that they saw Billy start the fight. Then they've got Margot at their mercy for 24 hours or so. The young daughter of a vocal Scn critic in an all night interrogation and black PR of her parents maybe? Who knows exactly what, but it sure stinks.

    Billy did exactly the right thing. It could have gotton very nasty. Especially with OSA's current state of utter desperation. They're capable of anything.
  14. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Methinks not.
  15. Pooks


    Wow, I'm sorry you and your daughter had to deal with this kind of insanity from a group that thinks it's "Mankind's Only Hope".

    Here's my take on it.

    The change of venue had to do with the fact that OSA was concerned that Bill Sr. was going to get kidnapped and deprogrammed.

    I unfortunately, worked for OSA Invest for 16 years as a volunteer so I have a pretty good insight on them.

    OSA or one of their lackey's had to be present to ensure no kidnapping/ deprogramming occured. If no deprogramming attempts were made, then the minder was there to help with any "antago, enemy lines" and to ensure that Bill Sr. didn't get reasonable or go PTS.

    But after I kept reading your post I saw something much more sinister than that. Bill Sr and the OSA minder wanted to use this occasion to collect information from you. Duh! Why? Because that's what they do!
    They don't give a rat's ass about you and your daughter. They are way more concerned about using you to get info.

    At first Bill Sr. is adamant about meeting at Town Hall, but as soon as you told him that you'd work something out next time the grand daughter was in town, he got frantic to meet with you. Next time she's in town? That could be weeks!. He had an op to do NOW. We all know everything in Scn has to be done NOW NOW NOW.

    I'm sorry to have to say this, but I truly don't think that Bill Sr. was upset about missing the opportunity to see his grand daughter. I think it's more likely that OSA planned to use this occasion as a means of collecting data, and when you pulled the plug on the meeting, he got all frantic and went with the original agreement, even saying he'd take a cab.

    If you and your daughter do contact him again to meet with him, I would suggest that you get a firm agreement that the meeting is a good road/good weather meeting and that neither Scn nor anon would be discussed. Get this agreement first, that way you could discuss family matters and not Scn matters.

    I'd also send a copy of your report to the nice police lady.
  16. ttamaad

    ttamaad Silver Meritorious Patron

    Sitting back and being able to think over the whole event has been interesting to say the least.

    You know the stuff.... sort of similar to when we made that decision to leave,

    In one hand, I can see my old man just wanting to have a conversation with his son and grand daughter. Listening to him, I do believe I seem to intimidate him. I'm not even thinking of reasons why. So here is this guy (late 70's now) getting a mind bashing from two sides... me saying I have strong disagreements with corporate scn, the very people he has put his faith into

    On the other side he will have his group of people. The only people he can call "friends" telling him all sorts of stuff. The info they would be feeding him would be agreeing with his beliefs but he would be loath to call me an SP... I know that.

    Talk about a confusing situation for him, lets face it. He wouldn't have been thinking anything more than a meeting. He wouldn't have been thinking kidnapping (by them or me) He is just the poor bloke who happens to be shoved into the face of this mindfuck due to him deciding to follow his beliefs and then finding out half his family is totally against what he believes to be right. He has become a pawn in the great game of scn chess.

    When I first went to the protest, I didn't think we would have had any hope of making contact with my old man. I just wanted to make it known how impossible it is for families to have relationships when one party is connected to scn.

    When the police offered to try and facilitate a family meeting, suddenly it became a possibility

    The police put scn in a hopeless situation as scn try to portray this good religious side and that they are helping mankind. We all know what actually goes on. Scn couldn't act as they normally do with a senior policewoman inside their establishment talking about a family meeting. They had to agree. The minder was mentioned and if my old man did find me intimidating then fair enough but hey, its pretty far fetched. I know him a bit better than that. His last comment before I hung up the phone proved to me that it wasn't him suggesting the minder.

    So to the future.... its now important that the contact continues in some form or fashion. Now I have some concerns that he will be moved overseas but maybe I am a little paranoid having read this sort of stuff over many forums.

    What has to be remembered is that he is still a person. Someone unlucky enough (or lucky enough) to have a couple of recalcitrant family who are speaking up and pointing out the crap that goes on, the crimes such as slave labour, abortions, kidnapping and child abuses... all in the name of saving the planet... yes scientology has more that enough to worry about than one late 70 year old man

    They may have stopped a meeting but strengthen the resolve of many... to rid this great place of this brainwashing cult called scientology
  17. Tiger Lily

    Tiger Lily Gold Meritorious Patron


    That's such a compassionate viewpoint. He's lucky to have you for a son. I believe you are right, just judging from my viewpoint when I was in. The sense of reality and the sense of priorities is so skewed when you are surrounded by that "think" and they keep you so busy you can't really think about missing your family.

    You are going about this the right way.
  18. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    Billy - :bighug:
  19. i'mglib

    i'mglib Patron with Honors

    Hello, Ttamaad. I'm new here, but post a lot on OCMB.

    Your situation sounds SO MUCH like Susan Lentsch's in the US.

    It also sounds like British Mum, who tried to see her daughter in the US, and was told by the security guards at HGB in Hollywood that they would "send someone down to talk to her."

    She said, No, knowing that it was just a big runaround...just like they did to you, and to Susan Lentsch.

    Anyway, Susan Lentsch's daughter is in the Sea Org in LA, too, and her story is the same deal. She came to LA to visit, and after a lot of nonsense, they agreed to let her have an awkward lunch with her daughter, with a handler present. There's a lot more to the story, so I'll cut and paste some of what she has written:

    And this:

    This is why we protest. It is truly evil how Scientology breaks up families, and just really really sad.

    Good luck to you and to your dad.
    Last edited: May 8, 2009
  20. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    I hope the day comes when individual Scientologists will not let their OSA handlers destroy their families, and meddle in everything of value in their lives.

    I hope the day comes when they will turn to these pinheaded fanatics, take back their lives and all that's valuable, and tell them NO.

    It did with us.

    It can with them.