ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



The CofS and the CIA.

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by mate, Apr 30, 2007.

View Users: View Users
  1. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    This was posted to the Ron's Orgs/Free Zone thread. It also belongs on this thread:

    http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=9208&postcount=70
     
  2. mate

    mate Patron Meritorious

    Hi Paul,

    Well at least we agree that there is a significant discrepancy or "outpoint" in the harassment of David Mayo. For rather obvious reasons, we are not able to dig any deeper into the sequence of events which lead to this harassment. So that all that is left to us is to either simply ignore it or look at various scenarios which could account for this action to have taken place. I have looked at one scenario which I feel is probable, and I have no doubt there are potentially many others. However, I am not inclined to ignore it as if the CofS is being used by the US Government, then attempting to destroy it would be a waste of energy and time.

    BTW, I would never have thought that the DEA was a member of Interpol. I, perhaps naively, thought it was simply police forces around the world. It would be interesting to know which US organizations, are members. As the DEA is a member, then so too would be the FBI. Would NSA and CIA be members?

    Regards, David.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2007
  3. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Aren't you overlooking the obvious - any Gov Agency can be used by the use of false reports and false documents to investigate and potentially harass anyone.

    There are many FBI - Freedom Of Info documents of LRH doing just that.

    The IRS keeps its docs secret, as do the CIA, NSA, Interpol, etc.

    Alan
    ________
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2013
  4. mate

    mate Patron Meritorious

    Hi Alan.

    I did consider it, but the following extract from Mayo"s posting made me very suspicious.

    Why would a drug enforcement agency be interested in non-drug related allegations? acting on a telephone call? denying access to the US Embassy?

    No Alan, there is something not quite right here. But thank you for your suggestion.

    Regards, David.
     
  5. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    David,

    It sounds like some person in the Church spread false reports to the authorities about him.

    I know once they framed a girl for a crime she was not guilty of , Paulette Cooper?

    This is some "justice" terminal over there practicing black magic.
     
  6. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    It wasn't till the raids on COS that the data was found that she was framed,
    and then she was able to walk free.
     
  7. Refiner

    Refiner Patron

    DM- Present Church President?
    SO- Sea Org, I assume.

    You guys sure have a lot of Loaded Language!:p
     
  8. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Scientologists talking amongst themselves use the language they are familiar with.

    If I am posting to a non-Scientology website, or speaking in person to a non-Scientologist, I use regular English, even if I am talking about some Scientology concept or experience.

    But to use regular English in discussing everyday Scientology matters, with Scientologists, is pretty much impossible. It is a specialised subject. To translate the technical terms into non-technical terms would take too long, and be pointless, if one is trying to communicate to those who understand what one is talking about.

    I have no objection at all to a non-Scientologist reading what I say and getting what they can out of it, but I am not going to add footnotes to every post I make to explain routine terminology, nor water down my use of it. It's rough for an outsider, but there are glossaries online, or you can always use Google.

    Others may be more considerate than me!

    Paul
     
  9. Refiner

    Refiner Patron

    I dont expect footnotes.

    Thanks.
     
  10. Andreas Grosz

    Andreas Grosz New Member

  11. jodie

    jodie Patron with Honors

    I find this very interesting, thanks for the post, David.

    Due to some personal experiences, I have been very interested in this topic, but do not wish to elaborate at this stage.

    One thing I can say - it is utterly naive for anyone to think that the CoS does not have political ambitions. They are in "good standing" with many governments around the world, and can third party a person to government authorities with ease. I also know, from David Mayo himself, some of what he was put through - he specifically spoke to me about what happened to him and Julie in the Dominican Republic.

    Now, it is clear the CoS enjoy good relations with police authorities in many countries, with government, with Interpol, and other agencies. That is evident, and anyone denying that is fooling themselves.

    It is also clear that one does not get into good standing with said groups without giving something back. It is that part that fascinates me. What is the CoS giving to these agencies, that have allowed them to be in such favour? Certainly not money, they do not have enough, and what they have is tied up in their "war chest", and DM's executive privileges.

    There is lots of speculation, some good reasoning, but obviously, hard evidence is very hard to obtain. The subject continues to interest me, and I continue to research it. It is their influence over many governments worldwide that interests me the most.

    Thanks again, David for asking some pertinent questions. I don't think we should have a knee-jerk "OMG conspiracy theory" reaction, but rather, should keep our minds open.

    - jodie
     
  12. Leon

    Leon Gold Meritorious Patron

    A few thoughts on all this:

    Having three of the four directors of CST can only mean that they want the freedom to exercise control over the hierarchy as and when they want to. it could serve no other purpose that I can think of. This does not imply that there is at present any control being exerted - it's just there for when they need it.

    Secondly, probably the USA is not an area where they need to get organisations into place - more likely this will be in third world countries. In the past spy agencies have made use of the World Wildlife people for this end. probably they are using other groups too. CofS with it's peripheral front groups in education etc is a perfect cover. An agent could easily be infiltrated into that group and he's all set up. Sec Checks are unlikely there.

    None of these CIA set-ups need be active now - they a long range projects that will pay off in years to come.

    Lastly, if the CofS should collapse and bite the dust (as we all hope) then CST will doubtless inherit all of the assets and all of the real estate. I don't see Uncle Sam complaining about that.
     
  13. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Using Scientology as a 'cover story' is analogous to wearing rubber buboes to disguise your cold.

    Zinj
     
  14. Leon

    Leon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Your perception of Scio front groups is very different to what is prevalent in the African townships.
     
  15. MarkWI

    MarkWI Patron Meritorious

    On the contrary, I think with money they buy favours.
    That may be another reason why money for them is never enough.

    M