ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



The Current State of Scientology

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Dotey OT, May 22, 2019.

View Users: View Users
  1. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Bikram Yoga is a squirrel group selling a disguised Purification Rundown. Yes it can trace roots to the subcontinent but it's popularity is built on the results so many gained from the PR

    This is OBVIOUS

    Now howl your invalidation my cherished colleagues of esmb...
     
  2. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    We Christians have been here for two thousand years Kara K. And if you aren't one of us don't you think it somewhat presumptuous to claim you know what our faith is based upon?
     
  3. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    why study a false religion, a false philosophy when there is no clear or OT, no Bridge to total Freedom.
     
  4. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    doesn't matter what Christians believe, scinetologists believe they can go clear and then OT, and there is proof none exist, that is clear or OT do not exist or have been produced.
     
  5. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I've produced six Patriot Super Bowl victories and four Red Sox WS titles coaching the teams on a purely spiritual level.

    I don't know why you believe you can prove there's no such thing as "OT" but you can't prove it to me
     
  6. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    do you have any certificates proving you did so on a spiritual level? Any trophies?

    You are like reading the success stories in Advance Magazine, that shit don't work here.
     
  7. Teanntás

    Teanntás Silver Meritorious Patron

    What about the placebo effect (thinking makes it so)? That is solid established science.
     
  8. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Ha. You should have asked him how much money he has made from gambling on those items. :D

    Never forget to ask the money question.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  9. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Well, that's all the proof I needed. Now I know that you are completely insane!
     
  10. Karakorum

    Karakorum supressively reasonable

    Well, Christianity is open about its beliefs. You guys don't have "secret OT levels" type of nonsense (which I applaud btw). So I don't need to make presumptions: I can open a bible and rread what's there. I gan read the catholic catechissm or go to the UMC website and read.

    Those are the beliefs I mentione din my previous post:

    1. Christ, the deceased cult leader is not dead, that he will return, and that he is the only one who can bring spiritual salvation to people.
    2. Prayer, when done correctly by a true believer,) has an actual physical impact on the world. That prayer prevents wars, car accidents, can heal people, can assure that someone's heart operation will be successful and so on.


    If I misrepresented christian doctrine, or made a false asumption about Christ being the only savior, or the belief in the "power of prayer", please feel free to point out specific errors that I made and we can go from there.


    I am aware there are subtle differences between various christian denominations btw. My beef though is mostly with belefs shared by all.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  11. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well now Kara K...

    We have been discussing the meaning of scripture for quite some time and the conversation has, shall we say, entailed some spilled beer.

    My belief is based upon first my observations of the conduct of the faithful. That got my nose into scripture. From there I found much wisdom in the teachings of The Nazarene.

    One of the Supreme Christian beliefs is that we cannot gain salvation on our own. In fact there is a verse in one of Paul's letters to the Corinthians I've long thought apropos to Hubbard. Paul assures the faithful that those who seek human means of salvation would be sent strong delusion...

    Think a bit about that one.

    Now...

    The first point you cite is common to most of the different sets of christian doctrine and dogma but I don't subscribe to it per se...




    We have an extensive body of material from NDE's. The most common tale involves being clinically dead in a hospital, exterior with perception and accurate recall of things said and done in the OR and then...

    Christians say Jesus appears.

    Jews say an angel appears.

    And good hearted decent unchurched people say "a being of light" appears.

    All three then report being conduct into Paradise.


    In our Gospels The Nazarene is quoted as saying "I am the Truth, the Light, and the Way. No man comes to the Father but through me"

    From the NDE material it is my belief that Jesus spoke the truth but that the Truth, the Light and the Way are not limited to the person of Jesus. He still remains unique in that he is the only human type person ever reported as the guide into paradise.

    And Christian belief has many, many facets...

    You are hereby commended to a study of our Judeochristian scripture
     
  12. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Can't do that.

    No betting.

    League rules.

    I can't physically enter the locker room now. If I were to violate league rules I wouldn't be able to get in spiritually either
     
  13. Karakorum

    Karakorum supressively reasonable

    Thanks for the reply.

    First, an NDE is rare. There are far more people who go back from a coma or clinical death without any sort of NDE experience than those who have the sort of NDE you describe.

    Secondly: As you mentioned: people from different religious backgrounds experience and interpret NDE differently. Japanese buddhists tend to interpret the "light and tunnel" as evil and possibly a messenger from naraka, because white happens to be the color of death and doom in Japanese culture.

    Thirdly: NDE, by its very definition, is something people have when their brains are not functioning properly (to put it mildly).
    To use a counterexample: It is common for people unde rthe influence of DMT to see "mechanical elves". Does that mean that the hyper realm of "mechanical elves" really exists? Or does it simply mean that people's brains malfunction in similar ways when they take DMT?
    To me that's the most important factor: How can we trust people's accounts from a time their brains weren't functioning well?


    All in all: I find the argument from NDE to be a weak one.
     
  14. F.Bullbait

    F.Bullbait Oh, a wise guy,eh?

  15. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    NDE's happen when the brain is not functioning at all; the electroencephalagraph is flatlined my friend.

    NDE material is surely parascientific. I personally have experiences which tend to affirm the material
     
  16. Karakorum

    Karakorum supressively reasonable

    That does not sound very credible, seeing as mammals are known to have increased brain activity after cardiac arrest.
    Do you have links to any scientific papers about this in humans?
     
  17. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'm Toulouse Low Tech, no links.

    I've never even googled NDE's but you might get answers to this and many other questions if you do.

    The minister of my church back in Bahhstin worked with some NDE researchers a few years ago so I do have one excellent source with firsthand experience with many who have had NDE's
     
  18. Karakorum

    Karakorum supressively reasonable

    I'm of course not a neuroscientist and I'm open to new information.

    But from what I read so far, I'm under the impression that NDEs are a product of a malfunctioning brain at a time of dramatic collapse within the organism (it is called "near death" for a reason). Experiments ran on humans would be unethical, so we don't get too much strict observation on humans. But we know in other mammals, such as rats, the brain goes into some sort of frantic activity once the heart and breathing stops.