ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

The different AO's; The different Sea Org posts

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by guRl, Feb 1, 2019.

  1. guRl

    guRl Patron with Honors

    Hi there!
    Long time no read (-;
    As always I come up every once in a while with random (and hopefully interesting) never-in questions about the world of Scientology. I apologize in advance if the following had already been addressed prior:

    So, by now it's a well-known fact that Flag is a pretty horrible place, and that PAC might be even worse.
    But what about Saint Hill in England, or AOSH in Copenhagen? Are they as bad as the other two? I would be very interested in hearing your experiences in the different Advanced Orgs as a comparison :oops:
    I'm guessing many factors weigh in on this, which brings me to my next question:

    The Sea Org, my my my, it can sometimes get to an epitome-of-evil level. But again, could it be easier and less emotionally damaging in some of the Orgs? Maybe the Class V ones? Or, are some Sea Org posts are less.. well, horrible to deal with on a daily basis? As said before, I would love to hear your experiences and opinions on this :thankyou:

  2. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    I worked alongside SO members at St. Hill AND ITO in L.A. In both cases, they often lacked sleep, and looked exhausted. The ones who were on mission from the US looked the most tired, especially when they themselves were being overseen by others. St. Hill UK could be a RELATIVELY calm place at times, until a mission arrived from the upper management (which was often), whereupon everyone looked stressed and tired. I would say that, overall, the further away you get from int management, the less insane it gets.

    When SO members had kids and were seconded to a Class V org, they seemed to have a better time of it. It was less stressful for them (except for the fact that they now need to feed themselves on org earnings). It was also usually the start of them leaving the SO altogether.
  3. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    The thing about being on staff in a regular org, is that it's easier to walk away. You just stop showing up. You generally live in your own independent living quarters, so "blowing" is not complicated -- you just stop coming to the org, maybe move elsewhere.

    I think Management has a pretty good idea of how far they can push people, before they just walk away.
    lotus likes this.
  4. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    I don't agree. If they had any idea of that then there wouldn't be so much turnover and it's been like that for 50 years. And it is what makes it so difficult to get a public scilon to join staff in the 1st place. They are clueless about how to retain people.
    Lulu Belle and guRl like this.
  5. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I like this 6 part video Vivien did on Saint Hill to disabuse the notion that it is a sane bucolic place. At one point she says that you aren't in the Sea Org when you are on the EPF. That isn't exactly correct. You are absolutely a Sea Org member on the EPF but you are not supposed to be assigned to an org post while in the EPF.

  6. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    From my experience the Sea Org didn't have a very good record of controlling vermin. The cockroaches at both Flag and PAC were ridiculous. I don't know if PAC got their bedbug problem under control but bedbugs have developed strong resistance to pesticides now so if they have them it must be a nightmare. I'd be hard pressed to have to choose between the Scientology insanity of any location because they each have their particular pros and cons but overall the Los Angeles area is really going to hell. The pressure washing you see them doing in the video in this article is to disinfect human feces off the sidewalks. Hepatitis is a fact of life there. Now they have typhus. I've had typhus when traveling. It was the sickest I've ever been in my life. If you know anyone who is thinking of joining the Sea Org you also need to let them know what it's like in Los Angeles. If you get sick in the Sea Org they will quarantine you to your room or with other infected staff and they may not have a doctor to know exactly what you have. You might only be seen by a Sea Org MLO (Medical Liaison Officer) or other staff who have no formal medical training and a tiny medical budget allowance for the whole org. If you get hepatitis or typhus you don't want to be someplace where it's not properly identified or their first instinct is to cover up the outbreak. You need to be in a hospital asap and not some alternative health center with a pro-Scientology practitioner.

    The humidity at Flag is oppressive and it's really funky how things don't dry out but I think the constant smog exposure in LA is really harmful for Sea Org members who have compromised immune systems.

    Now that International Management is in PAC the stress level must be much higher.

    Given no other choice I would have to go with just about anyplace other than PAC.

    Greenwood believes she contracted typhus from fleas in her office at City Hall East. Fleas often live on rats, which congregate in the many heaps of trash that are visible across the city of LA, and are a breeding ground for typhus.

    "There are rats in City Hall and City Hall East," Greenwood added. "There are enormous rats and their tails are as long as their bodies."

    Last year set a new record for the number of typhus cases — 124 in LA County for the year, according to the California Department of Public Health.
  7. guRl

    guRl Patron with Honors

    Bump :D
  8. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    I checked into the Manor in the mid-1980's, as a paying public. I found so many roaches in my room (fortunately before I unpacked) that I immediately left, told them they need to fumigate, and went to a nearby NON-SCN motel
  9. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    We used to joke that the walls were held up by cockroaches at FCDC when they were on 'S' Street.
  10. This is NOT OK !!!!

    This is NOT OK !!!! Gold Meritorious Patron

    Here's a link to Mick Winlock's amazing story of his experiences with the Sea Org in England and Copenhagen. Warning: you are about to enter the twilight zone!
  11. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    OMG! The horror never ends.
  12. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    No, it doesn't...

    EXCLUSIVE: Tom Cruise partied on the deck of Scientology's cushy cruise ship but ex member tells how at 16 she was forced to clean sewage in the Freewinds' bilge as punishment for not sexually satisfying older husband

    Numerous documents and witnesses can establish that David18 Miscavige micromanages the entire Scientology Enterprise including the Office of Special19 Affairs and its lawyers, private investigators and public corruption. In other words, David20 Miscavige is personally responsible for, personally involved in, personally accountable for and personally punishable for horrific matters set forth herein and his testimony is necessary21 to this proceeding.22 55. For example, Marc Headley recently left the Church of Scientology after many23 years of labor at the Scientology “Gold Base” near Hemet. As part of Scientology discipline, to24 try and find an even more outrageous punishment than before, David Miscavige ordered Marc25 Headley to work in the Gold Base sewage treatment ponds. There Mr. Headley had to labor, day26 after day, while thigh deep in sewage sludge without any protective clothing or equipment. He27 now suffers from permanent respiratory damage, among other things. Only recently, as you will28 read below, David Miscavige ordered Sea Organization staffers to remove deadly cancer causing Declaration of Graham E. Berry in Support of Defendant’s C.C.P. §425.16 motion. 27
    28. blue asbestos from the Church of Scientology cruise liner M.V. Free Winds. For the past 21 1 years David Miscavige has knowingly exposed thousands of scientologists, including Tom 2 Cruise, John Travolta and many celebrities, to deadly cancer causing blue asbestos on the M.V. 3 Freewinds (because Scientology auditing with the E meter cures all illnesses, physical defects 4 and injuries).
  13. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    When I mentioned the massive cockroach infestation I was sent to ethics and made to clay demo the term: "Unprecedented Highest Ever Stats".

    After I got a pass, I then commented that hundreds of cockroaches darting about an auditing room still seemed like a chaotic outpoint.

    So they ordered me to do another clay demo of: "When high-toned OTs put order into the MEST universe, confusion begins blowing off".

    They have the answers for everything!
    The only two (2) things you need--to learn the ultimate
    secrets of life--are prodigious amounts of clay and stupidity.

  14. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    You actually point out an important aspect of Scientology thinking: nothing is ever the fault of anybody above you on the Scientology hierarchy. It's always something YOU need to take responsibility for fixing.

    At the ultimate level, nothing bad could ever be attributable to any error or incompetence on LRH's part, but all good results MUST be attributed to LRH tech.
    strativarius and Type4_PTS like this.
  15. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Exactly! Per standard admin tech. . .


    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  16. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    When I was in Clearwater and new on the FRU/EPF back in 1988 I was with a group cleaning in one of the kitchens (in the Fort Harrison if I remember correctly). We started to move something off the floor so we could clean the floor underneath it, and there were many thousands of maggots underneath it which start moving across the floor as fast as they could once we disturbed their space. One of the most disgusting things I recall from my S.O. experience there.

    Before that I worked at Social Coordination International on Wilshire Blvd (Los Angeles) for a year. While this was a Sea Org Org I hadn't yet signed an S.O. contract. But I worked the same schedule as the rest of the staff and lived in S.O. housing. It was nothing at all though like any other Sea Org Org I'd been around. We didn't have to wear uniforms. And I lived in an actual house, although very crowded. There were about 22 of us in the house! :D
    Very crowded, especially the bathrooms! But was still a much nicer environment to have been in than regular S.O. accommodations. And was just a short walk from where we worked. And working in that particular Org was much more laidback than a normal Scientology Org, at least from my perspective. I wasn't an exec, and imagine that they had much more pressure put on them.
  17. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    I checked into The Manor in the 1970s and I never saw any roaches in my room.
    So, I guess room maintenance went way down over the years. :(

    Did it get better after The Manor became the new Celebrity Center?
    Enthetan likes this.
  18. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    I never stayed in any of the rooms there at the Manor but spent several months working there around the central files area of celebrity center. I don't recall seeing any roaches around that time.

    I'm sure that eradication of any roaches was a very high priority. It's not a good look when you're attempting to attract celebrities, or anyone else.
  19. TomKat

    TomKat Patron Meritorious

    I stayed at the Manor in the late 70s and it was very clean.

    Whatever happened to the old Wilcox Hotel (@Selma Ave) where the CCLA staff lived? Do they still use that for staff housing?
  20. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    I can hardly believe it was worst than at Flag at the time you and I were..we would never unpack our stuf f in scealed boxes...cockroaches are so huge at Flag that you can hear them walking on your boxes....

    In the 80's the berthing conditions were à disaster, like in a war zone....and when you were littetally eating your meals with those coackroaches on the table...

    I was stunned that people (slave flock) agreed on such disgusting living conditions...

    Before I went as a SO at Flag, I never bad been confronted to coackroaches, rats, molding, 8 in a bedroom, no hygiene products supply...This was my severe reality adjustment that I have been lied to and fooled in joining a slave work organisation...

    Now just imagine the small kids SO kindergarten.... They will save the planet although totally unable to ensure minimal hygiene and to look after small kids properly...​

    [justify]No intent to offense anybody here..but the reality is there is no consideration about hygiene in the SO...till the public don't complain on how you smell bad...[/justify]

    An intetesting thing to observe though and that is very telling of the mental sanity of people is when they do the white glove inspection on saturday morning...they pass the white glove on the furnitures, sink, floor to ensure there is no dust and that everthing is super clean...exactly like in the army...but they don't take notice of the amount of roaches, the mould contaminated carpet, the leaking plumbing, the matresses full of pee rings, etc, etc. etc...

    Mad dark world.....

    I so love my home and how I saved the planet myself!
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2019