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The Doubt Formula

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
Very good video. Thanks for posting. Very well thought out.

It was interesting because most of those questions were questions I asked myself or had lurking in the back of my mind (in a state of denial) for years.

I know, absolutely know, that most (say 80%) of my scientology friends all had similar questions. In quieter, safer moments, these would sneak to the surface. They'd slip out and be quickly blanketed again. Like the narrator said in the video, there is such a great complex mess to face if you want to start answering these questions.

I know an elderly gentleman who has been in scientology since the mid-1950's. Terrific man. I love this man dearly. A true gentleman! He got to OT8. But there he was, in his 80's with bits falling off his body, all sorts of health complaints, physically not unlike many other folk his age. God only knows how much money he's spent over the years, not to mention the countless number of hours he's put into the cause. For what? To be just like the other elderly folk around him. I never had the guts to ask him what his doubts might be, I wish I had now. I could see something in his eyes I should have enquired about. It was the look of betrayal.

The look of betrayal is often in the eyes of scientologists. I guess it up to people like me and many of you, to take the plunge and ask about it. It is often only those that have been through it that can crack that façade because we have inside knowledge.

To my wonderful old friend - I love you always! :yes:
 

sheetmedal

Patron
This is a good video. I am going to be putting together a doubt formula regarding the CoS. I am having trouble with the stats part...

Once I have this formula together, I will use it to try to get some people out with me.

If it works, I'll post it here. This may be a few months down the road.

-sm
 

Wisened One

Crusader
God only knows how much money he's spent over the years, not to mention the countless number of hours he's put into the cause.

For what? To be just like the other elderly folk around him.

Right there, BINGO, is why I left Staff/scn. You're working your life away and spending entire bank accts....FOR WHAT?! :screwy:

Regarding the Doubt Forumula:

When we went back to route out standardly, hubby and I kept telling them when we were told to do our Doubt Forumulas..

'Well, unless we come up with the Formula working out to being 'Staying on Staff' you aren't gonna like it, so why do it?

The Ethics terminal AGREED. We still wrote them up anyways (with our true answers of how we felt it was the greatest good for
OUR greatest number of dynamics to leave Staff).
 
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asagai

Patron Meritorious
Scientology Doubt Formula

This is a good place to look if you are in doubt about scientology.

Thanks for the Doubt formula video FTS! :thumbsup:

It occurs to me that many doubting scientologists might put something like the above phrase into a search engine, so we could see where we could possibly get this thread ranked, as a way to help doubting members of the Church of Scientology.

See the other thread on "Mutiny" for info on what can be achieved by having half an eye on staying on the subject. In this case let's see what happens as regards the phrase Sceintology doubt formula.

Perhaps people would like to post on what they used to make up their minds about the Church of Scientology when they were in Doubt.

What did people consider that helped them complete their Scientology Doubt Formula?

PS Michael Tilse's Doubt Formula write up on http://exscn.net/content/view/183/106/ is currently #5 on Google.
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
An obligation to mutiny...listen up, Scientology members

God only knows how much money he's spent over the years, not to mention the countless number of hours he's put into the cause.

For what? To be just like the other elderly folk around him.

Right there, BINGO, is why I left Staff/scn. You're working your life away and spending entire bank accts....FOR WHAT?! :screwy:

Mutiny, heavily suppressed in military and governmental models; is common in the world of business. A COB or CEO such as Miscaviage would be quickly deposed by the factors of the marketplace. Consider this; Scientology is after all, a business - if you want to call a pyramid marketing scheme a business. Amway and scientology have a lot in common; and many scientologists, in my experience, are drawn to such schemes. God, I remember the "Blue Algae" Ponzi scheme that was all the rage around FCDC in the 90's - anyone else?

EP (ethics particle par excellence!)
 

Wisened One

Crusader
Mutiny, heavily suppressed in military and governmental models; is common in the world of business. A COB or CEO such as Miscaviage would be quickly deposed by the factors of the marketplace. Consider this; Scientology is after all, a business - if you want to call a pyramid marketing scheme a business. Amway and scientology have a lot in common; and many scientologists, in my experience, are drawn to such schemes. God, I remember the "Blue Algae" Ponzi scheme that was all the rage around FCDC in the 90's - anyone else?

EP (ethics particle par excellence!)

Sorry to veer off your main point and this thread, but.....Yep, we were into Blue/Green Algae..but HEY, that stuff worked REALLY well!....for a while, until it didn't have an effect anymore.....It got me off of a really bad chest cold one time, I'll never forget that...I was feeling guilty for being off-post, home in bed, could hardly breathe, etc. and Dean (my hubby) brings home 6 of these dark green capsules, tells me to take 'em...and within 2 hours, I felt completely well again. Wow. THAT was our first intro to Celltech's Super Blue/Green Algae!

A Public actually pitched the business end of it to us (Fulltime Staff members)...he got in BIgggg trouble, as he was talking to us about it WHILE we were on post and was overheard. :duh:

Yeah, poor guy was actually trying to HELP us STAY on Staff and be able to also make money without having to go off and moonlight....and here he got in trouble for it....lol....
 

asagai

Patron Meritorious
Scientology Doubt Formula

Scientology Doubt Formula. This is a good place to look if you are in doubt about scientology.

Post number 6 of this thread burst into the google search at number 6 just over an hour after posting it! It is listed with the above two sentences in its google description.

So now CofSers who Google the phrase Scientology Doubt Formula will see the link, see the description and hopefully click through to ESMB!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

If some people now want to write up what helped them decide about the CofS, you have an audience on Google and doubting CofSers will see what you say and it might help them decide. Wow!

People who want to work through their Scientology Doubt Formula can read up about it here.
 

sheetmedal

Patron
If you're a Scientologist -- which I had considered myself up until about 4 or 5 weeks ago -- and you're looking at this thread and trying to answer those questions, have a look at this thread I started: Doubt -- Gathering facts for actual evaluation .

These are things which I have, for myself, confirmed to enough of a degree to be completely sure about the Church of Scientology definitely not being a group which should be helped.
 
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Neo

Silver Meritorious Patron
Scientology Doubt Formula

I see what you did there asagai :D

It's actually currently 5th on Google, for the search term Scientology doubt formula. Which is a great help to all those people out there who are confused as to where they stand with regards to Scientology, and their relationship to it, or at least to the official church. All because the true story about Scientology has been hidden from them.

I know this message board was a godsend for me, and handling the doubts that had entered my universe as a result of Scientology not being what I had hoped it would be, and feeling the need to do something positive about my situation.

So, should people be out there searching for answers, a term such as Scientology doubt formula would be one they would enter into Google, and this site would be one of the ones they find as a result. Good work. :)

Neo
 

Feral

Rogue male
One of the great difficulties when you are "in" is resolving the doubt formula. I know, I ground through 15 years of solo nots which cost nearly half a millilon dollars, without a lot of gain, but some, just enough for me to think that it would all come at the end, until my wife finished. So, why is it so hard? I think Ron himself gave us the answer in the HCOPL "Hang up at doubt", PTSness and false data. The church had provided me with both, but some was subtle.

If one takes their "stats" of the church from the church, you would be just mad to even think of leaving! But what if those stats were truly false data? What if the true results of applying scientology were explained by Hubbards death certificate? Or by Jeff Hawkins book, "Counterfeit dreams" (free on the web)

What if you did not fear to speak your mind to other scientologists? What if you did not feel the church could forfeit your eternal happiness with a stroke of the pen?

Could you work your way through your doubt condition faster then?

When I read the stuff on the web it gave me the ability to evaluate the experiences I myself had, none of the web data, that may or may not be true, went into my doubt condition, though it did contribute to me being able to objectively look at my own experiences in the church for the first time ever, without justifying and making excuses for what I experienced, for the first time I saw some of those actions for what they truly were.

Be brave.
 

asagai

Patron Meritorious
Ok, as regards the Scientology Doubt Formula:

People in doubt about scientology will see this thread in the top 10 on Google. This is a great opportunity for us to tell our stories about what conclusions we came to and what data we looked at that helped us resolve the scientology doubt formula.

We have a ready-made audience for this information who are looking at us on Google, so just add your data onto this thread and help inform doubting members of the Church of Scientolgy.

I am also running another project and would like to gather info from ESMBers. It ties in with what I wrote above.

What I would like to know are the main questions that you had while you were still in the CofS. Could you list, perhaps the top three or so things that you were unsure about concerning the CofS that you either researched on the internet or would have liked to have searched about on the internet.

Three or so key phrases that you would have entered into a search engine to find answers to questions that you have had.

As well as helping my research for future projects this will also help people who are doing the scientology doubt formula.
 

Pixie

Crusader
This is great stuff asagai. Well as I have said before, the final crunch for me regarding the cult was the actual doubt formula, I had been stuck in it for years until I realized that in fact the formula itself was not giving me the choice I needed which was to 'walk away'. I had two choices only, to 'attack, harm' (same bloody thing!) or 'help', and when I realized that this was part of the trap, my brain cracked at that point and I was well and truly out.

I think my first google on the cult was 'scientology truth', can't remember what came up cos I was still very much.. :nervous: .. thinking that should I come upon the ot3 data I would get sick and die, that was still very much engrained even though I knew that scientology was a con to gain power and control for ronny so it was a difficult time.

If there's anything I can help you with please just ask and if I can think of anything else that you could use I'll surely let you know. Keep up the excellent work asagai and thank you. :thumbsup:
 

solo

Patron with Honors
Hi Asagai,

it's hard to remember what my questions were back then, if only we'd had access to the Internet! If I could go back to the time when I was, in effect, doing the Doubt formula, I would ask the following questions:

1. Did LRH lie about his history?
2. What happened to all the money people paid for Scientology?
3. Was the tech "true" or just an elaborate hoax?

These were the questions that I eventually found the answers to, and which helped me to do my own Doubt formula on Scientology.

Well done!

Solo
 

asagai

Patron Meritorious
With regards to people doing the Scientology Doubt Formula:

This is great stuff asagai. Well as I have said before, the final crunch for me regarding the cult was the actual doubt formula, I had been stuck in it for years until I realized that in fact the formula itself was not giving me the choice I needed which was to 'walk away'. I had two choices only, to 'attack, harm' (same bloody thing!) or 'help', and when I realized that this was part of the trap, my brain cracked at that point and I was well and truly out.

I think my first google on the cult was 'scientology truth', can't remember what came up cos I was still very much.. :nervous: .. thinking that should I come upon the ot3 data I would get sick and die, that was still very much engrained even though I knew that scientology was a con to gain power and control for ronny so it was a difficult time.

If there's anything I can help you with please just ask and if I can think of anything else that you could use I'll surely let you know. Keep up the excellent work asagai and thank you. :thumbsup:

Thanks Pixie - I can do something with "scientology truth" - thanks for the feedback.

If you were talking to somebody now who was in Doubt about staying in Scientology, what would you say to them that you think would persuade them to consider leaving?

Imagine somebody was doing the Scientology Doubt Formula - what would you say to them? And do you know any good links to webpages that would answer their doubts/questions?
 

asagai

Patron Meritorious
Scientology Doubt Formul

Hi Asagai,

it's hard to remember what my questions were back then, if only we'd had access to the Internet! If I could go back to the time when I was, in effect, doing the Doubt formula, I would ask the following questions:

1. Did LRH lie about his history?
2. What happened to all the money people paid for Scientology?
3. Was the tech "true" or just an elaborate hoax?

These were the questions that I eventually found the answers to, and which helped me to do my own Doubt formula on Scientology.

Well done!

Solo

Thanks Solo - where did you find answers to those questions?

Is there a good source of info that people could go to when they are doing their Scientology Doubt Formula?
 

asagai

Patron Meritorious
Scientology Doubt Formula

One of the great difficulties when you are "in" is resolving the doubt formula. I know, I ground through 15 years of solo nots which cost nearly half a millilon dollars, without a lot of gain, but some, just enough for me to think that it would all come at the end, until my wife finished. So, why is it so hard? I think Ron himself gave us the answer in the HCOPL "Hang up at doubt", PTSness and false data. The church had provided me with both, but some was subtle.

If one takes their "stats" of the church from the church, you would be just mad to even think of leaving! But what if those stats were truly false data? What if the true results of applying scientology were explained by Hubbards death certificate? Or by Jeff Hawkins book, "Counterfeit dreams" (free on the web)

What if you did not fear to speak your mind to other scientologists? What if you did not feel the church could forfeit your eternal happiness with a stroke of the pen?

Could you work your way through your doubt condition faster then?

When I read the stuff on the web it gave me the ability to evaluate the experiences I myself had, none of the web data, that may or may not be true, went into my doubt condition, though it did contribute to me being able to objectively look at my own experiences in the church for the first time ever, without justifying and making excuses for what I experienced, for the first time I saw some of those actions for what they truly were.

Be brave.

Thanks Feral. 15 years and half a million dollars! :omg: Pretty powerful things to take into consideration when in doubt!

I'm not familiar with HCOPL Hang up at Doubt - can you remember what it said?

Counterfeit Dreams is excellent for those doing the Doubt Fromula it can be found at: http://counterfeitdreams.blogspot.com/2008/04/chapter-one-going-home.html
and FTS posted it and ESMBers commented on it at http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=6257
 

Pixie

Crusader
With regards to people doing the Scientology Doubt Formula:



Thanks Pixie - I can do something with "scientology truth" - thanks for the feedback.

If you were talking to somebody now who was in Doubt about staying in Scientology, what would you say to them that you think would persuade them to consider leaving?

Imagine somebody was doing the Scientology Doubt Formula - what would you say to them? And do you know any good links to webpages that would answer their doubts/questions?

Well when it came to showing them point three I would say 'I wonder why there are only two choices here.. mmmm...' :eyeroll: There was a site but I can't remember the name of it. It wasn't a site as such, it was just a place where people can put their stories. There were I think six or seven questions and at the bottom you had a chance to write your story. There were over two hundred stories when I looked, I read most of them, and that was all I needed, but I will have a hunt for it and anything else I can find for you sure.

It's difficult to know exactly what to 'say' to them, my situation was different, someone mailed me, I got bombarded with link after link, I got worn down and conceded to read them, but it was point three of the doubt formula that nailed it for me in the end.. no choice to walk away...
 

Pixie

Crusader
Thanks Feral. 15 years and half a million dollars! :omg: Pretty powerful things to take into consideration when in doubt!

I'm not familiar with HCOPL Hang up at Doubt - can you remember what it said?

Counterfeit Dreams is excellent for those doing the Doubt Fromula it can be found at: http://counterfeitdreams.blogspot.com/2008/04/chapter-one-going-home.html
and FTS posted it and ESMBers commented on it at http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=6257

Oh sure! If you're hung up at doubt you're PTS, I had been shown this PL year in year out..:duh: :duh:
 
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