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The ESMB Unpopular Opinions Thread

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Alanzo, Aug 15, 2019.

  1. chipgallo

    chipgallo Patron Meritorious

    Around 1990 or '91, a.r.s. was available on the military site where I had a UNIX shell account. The text description in the text newsreader was "He's Dead, Jim." It eventually made a paradigm shift possible for me away from fence sitting, which ESMB continued in many ways. A major difference is that a.r.s. was unmoderated, which is where the "alt" hierarchy differed from other USENET newsgroups. It was possible to "shout people down" by piling on, shaming or bullying, outing the anonymous posters, etc., yet it took the OSA minion many years to refine their techniques to the point where some can be effective at levels of disruption that the crude Kobrin cancellation message against a.r.s. pales in comparison to.

    Effective moderation takes willing volunteers who understand what they are looking at. There need to be enforceable rules which are agreed upon by posters. Typically a complex rule set eventually falls by the wayside (and here I am speaking from the viewpoint of a former moderator on several less volatile boards who walked away from the role) and can drift into vendetta and bias. It is damn hard to be fair and ESMB has mostly succeeded for longer than I would have predicted.
     
  2. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    I have to say it is an interesting concept, that one is coming in strong and only fucked once the doors are jammed shut. It is incorrect in that Scientologists prey on the perceived weak individuals, as such, it would be misguiding to speak of someone coming from a position of "strenght". Scientology has a process on how to get people hooked, it does increase with a "gradient" yes, but still - The process begins on the streets.

    Wether the decision led to an improvement for a majority of those people is extremely debatable.

    Is it that you are allergic to simplifications? Do you expect everything to be dished out fully? Whatever the case I still recommend going on the path of academic studies and all that jazz rather then trying to have a serious discussion on it here. Honest like.
     
  3. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    It doesn't matter if you would recommend them or not - and your virtue signaling that "the CoS is the very last place I'd send someone" is duly noted. This is the UNpopular opinions thread, remember?

    The decision to improve your life is a position of strength and not weakness.

    The idea that cult members join cults at a vulnerable time in their lives is a stereotype.

    And the acceptance of that stereotype walls off your own decision making TO YOURSELF about why you got into Scientology and what you were getting out of it. It makes you think you were not operating on your own power of choice.

    It is a dehumanizing stereotype that Tony Ortega continually runs on Exes.

    And it's really bad.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  4. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  5. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    The stereotype is also very true.
     
    Type4_PTS likes this.
  6. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    Interesting. You actually think that you can make a comment here and no one is allowed to disagree. This is a wonderful deviation from normal commenting policies. You should know that a (non-administrator) member of ESMB cannot dictate who can express which opinion, even on "their" thread.

    I believe you started this thread, thinking that you will have total control over it, to avoid challenges to your postings.

    Now, how will you attack me? Which logical fallacy will you use: Ad hominem? Strawman? tu quoque? black-or-white?

    I'm thinking you'll use the best one: :ignore::hysterical:
     
    freethinker and Type4_PTS like this.
  7. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Very true?

    ESMB: Vigorously defending the self-destructive stereotypes we've all accepted about ourselves.

    Nice. :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  8. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    OK, here's a very unpopular opinion: I think the 2 hour "blinkless" TR 0 confront was wonderful.

    Once I got through all the twitching and visual stuff, it was (to me) just like meditation. After that, I loved being tapped to help someone go through that drill. First, it was great not to have to try to read those damned LRH bulletins and fiddle with bits of trash and Second, well ... meditation.

    No, it wasn't a trance or hypnotism, it was calmness. I was perfectly aware of everything going on around the course room but not distracted.

    I felt I got more control over my body and could tell the body to "calm down, relax". I enjoyed it very much.

    :hide:
     
  9. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    Whale, I don't go by ESMB, I go by He-man. Way cooler name then ESMB.

    I shure hope you see my point there about stereotypes. It's not hidden wery well. It's right on the surface, between the whale and the ESMB! Did you get it?
     
  10. Emma

    Emma Con te partirĂ² Administrator

    When I need to calm down I do OT TR 0. It works but I usually fall asleep, just like I did in Scn :D
     
    Alanzo likes this.
  11. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Hey! This is poop!

    Screen Shot 2019-08-21 at 11.06.41 AM.jpg
     
  12. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Unpopular Opinion: The overwhelming majority of children born to Scientologists do NOT follow their parents into Scientology.

    Therefore, those 2nd Gens who become Scientologists, and remain so as adults, do so on their own power of choice.
     
  13. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    Taking action to improve means a deficiency (weakness) has been noted. Sure it's a good thing to decide to improve. The wisdom of one's chosen vehicle for that desired improvement is another story. In my own case I could say that at 19 I was vulnerable to recruitment because I lacked critical thinking skills and general worldliness. Not to mention a very hot blonde that was doing the selling...

    I think it's quite fair to point out the scientologist suicides that occur. Because the claims of scn are that they have THE solution to mental health, that they should take over the field of mental healing, that they are the experts on the human mind. Scientologists believe these things, they also believe that "mainstream" mental health is to be avoided at all costs. In fact their spiritual eternity is at stake should they fall into the hands of the "psychs". The contracts they have you sign before allowing you on service have you give the org the right to intervene in such matters.

    So yeah, I think it is quite fair to point out the massive failure of the "tech" that the suicide of a scientologist reveals.
     
    pineapple and Type4_PTS like this.
  14. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    Why should he mention it? I consider that fact to be common knowledge. What isn't common knowledge is that scientologists believe scn can handle any mental condition. That false belief can and has proved fatal to a number of scientologists. Could they have been avoided if they had gone with mainstream medicine? We'll never know, but we do know that the promised workable 'tech' didn't come to the rescue.
     
    freethinker and Type4_PTS like this.
  15. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    I'm glad you brought this up.

    What is the suicide rate of Scientologists? Like suicides per 1000 Scientologists per year?

    How does that suicide rate compare to the annual suicide rate of the mainstream society?

    If your point is that even 1 scientology suicide proves scientology doesn't work, then okay.

    But the more important point is to compare the Scientology suicide rate to the objective benchmark of overall suicides in the mainstream society. Only when you do that and see if Scientology suicides are higher, or lower, can you really make a valid point either way.

    Tony Ortega NEVER does this. And neither does any other anti-Scientologist I've seen who discusses Scientology suicides.
     
  16. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    Oh really? The majority of children I know who were born to Scientologists did follow their parents into Scientology before they were adults, and so were denied any power of choice whatsoever. The point is moot since the decision to not be a Scientologist were never presented to them. A majority of them has blown since, with severe repercussions to their private life as a result.
     
  17. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    I wish you would read my unpopular opinions as I write them, and not as you want them to be..
     
  18. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    I did. You stated that a majority of children do not follow their parents into Scientology.

    Therefore, those that chose to remain as adults, do so by their own power of choice.

    I wrote it up using me own words so you can check my superior level of understanding. :D
     
  19. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Unpopular Opinion: Your own power of choice is never diminished or destroyed by any Scientology 'brainwashing technique' - throughout your recruitment, membership, and departure from Scientology.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  20. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    Does that also apply to the children who were forced into the Sea Org because their parents were to afraid to say no to the "church"?

    Does that also apply to the memebers of the Sea Org?

    Does that also apply to the people who were sent to the RPF?

    Are you honestly saying that none of these were being brainwashed - witch resulted in a diminished power of choice?