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The Floating Needle Scram by Hubbard & DM

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Gib, Mar 10, 2019.

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  1. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Floating needle was to represent the end of process. Hubbard gave many word clearing definitions of a floating needle. LOL

    Which one to choose.

    DM said it's 3 swings of the needle. LOL

    Unfortunately, any definition of the words or phrase, never resulted in a clear or OT.

  2. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    And yet, in the old days, if the auditor did not quickly recognize an F/N (not 3 swings) then sometimes it could become a "dirty" (i.e. jerky) needle. Then the C/S would send the auditor to cramming in Qual for this item.

    Skin resistance to mild electronic current is affected by brain activity.
    But this would be another topic.
    (I am not supporting Hubbard's "tech" about this item.)
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
    lotus and Gib like this.
  3. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    The F/N as end-of-process indicator only dates from 1965. Before that it was no more TA action. (I'm not going to look it up now, but I think it was less than 1/4 div. of TA in 15 minutes.) Then Hubbs decided that everyone had been O/R in the past and now auditors must stop AS SOON AS they saw a floating needle (the "full EP" of F/N, cog, VGI's came later). I see a parallel here with the Dn Clear frenzy of '78/79. In '65 Hubbs decided they'd been O/R'ing releases and wanted to get everyone in for release checks. In '78 he decided they'd been O/R'ing clear and large numbers of scngsts suddenly realized they were already clear.

    The history of scn under Hubbard: "I've got it now! I've got it now! (Oh, no, wait ...) I've REALLY got it now! I've REALLY got it this time! (Well, I thought I did ...) Oh, but THIS time ...
    Gib likes this.
  4. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    yah, totally understand Pineapple, but what about any two people could clear themselves using dianetic procedures in Book 1?

    Turns out, nobody could, Oh, the rhetoric.

    And yet Dianetics is still bring sold to the public as a Modern Science of Mental Health.
  5. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    Its seems to me that the "floating needle" represents the body becoming awash in synapse damaging amperage, the dangerous electrical component that stun guns and tasers use to knock people on the asses, with no further resistance to its flow. An f/n demonstrates one is at full effect. Scientology puts up the smokescreen that the emeter is a "low voltage device". Voltage is not the dangerous element in electricity, amperage is.
  6. Anonymous100

    Anonymous100 Patron

    Yes but Ive been told the amperage is next to nothing on an an electrician. ??
    programmer_guy likes this.
  7. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    Scientology advertised low voltage, why wouldn't they have said low amperage when that is the more dangerous of the two"? And next to nothing on a constant basis during sessions, sec checks and word clearing may have a cumulative effect. Amperage is the biting force in electricity and 4.5 milliamps might be regarded as next to nothing but it's the highest level currently available in stun guns.
    The Kleppes might be able to tell you.
  8. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    Correct. The voltage in an e-meter is low therefore the amperage (current) is low.
  9. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    and even in the further old days b/4 your time PG, why Hubbard used the Mathison emeter. I don't know if you have listened or read The Basic's as ordered by DM. Basics meaning listening and reading everything Hubbard wrote or spoke from the get go.

    I did. I recall listening to a early lecture of The Basics wherein in the lecture there was this dude named Reg. It was a live recording of Hubbard doing auditing on a person. During that lecture it was constantly said Reg, what is the meter doing, tone reaction. I was like who is this Reg guy. So I researched. Took me awhile to connect dots.

    Turns out Hubbard in those lectures was using the Mathison Emeter. Image here provided by Arnie:


    Turns out Tone meant Tone on the Mathison Emeter which meant raising tone of 1-4 of Hubbard's tone scale. ie tone of boredom up to enthusiasm or whatever it is.

    Confusing, yep.

    When I read this image, just read all the rhetoric (persuasion), it's amazing and the same shit Hubbard has done since Dianetics, and as well as DM and his lawyers from the get go.
    DagwoodGum likes this.
  10. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    just to draw one's attention to the words above the actual image of the Mathison Emeter:

    "Registars relative degrees of dynamic psychophysical stress from moment to moment during the dianetic auditing session. Indicates the approximate Hubbardian Tone-scale of the preclear from 1.0 to infinity high ranges!....."

    What a scam from the get go.
  11. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    OMG, look to the left of the image, and we have Success Stories,


    Anybody, where are the clears or ot's?
    programmer_guy likes this.
  12. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Minus the confidencial OT materials, that would be the Saint Hill Special Briefing Course (Class VI).

    I didn't know that you did the SHSBC.
    How long did it take for you to complete it?
    Did you do it at ASHO?
    Just curious.
  13. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Reg Sharpe, LRH Personal Aide.

    Reg Sharpe can be seen and heard in the video "Scientology: A Faith For Sale," which can be found on YouTube and has been posted here several times.
    Gib likes this.
  14. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    The cumulative effect of being trickle charged in both amperage and voltage, as low as it might be considered, is capable of significant uncharted effects on ones neural structure and synapses. We took quite a risk being hooked up to a junkyard science electrical device from a fake engineer.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  15. Anonymous100

    Anonymous100 Patron

    Has there been any studies of this machine or any similar doing what you say above? Would be great to find one to prove the cumulative effect. Maybe it takes years ....maybe the emeter caused hubbard to believe his own bs then and the audit his brain into oblivion?
  16. renegade

    renegade Silver Meritorious Patron

    It's been proven time and time again that the cumulative effects coincident with the number of hours spent on the e-meter are proportionate to the levels of insolvency of the pre-clear.
  17. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    sorry, I didn't say that right. I meant only the basics although I have read a lot of the R&D Series, blues vols, and the tech vols, red ones, and the green ones, policy vol's. I don't have a certificate to say I'm a Doctor of Scientology, LOL.

    But I have to say, since listening to the old lectures by hubbard such as PDC's, Phoenix lectures, study tapes, etc

    why the new Basics I figured are a mish mash of Hubbard's lectures but repackaged as new material found. That's why I would go WTF while listening to the Basics.
  18. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    thanks Pineapple for posting this. Exactly. My point was sort of you'd never know who Reg was while in scientology, and asking about him from staff members is pie face, LOL.

    There is no way one can find out about this while in scientology. One has to look elsewhere, which I did, and I did find out about Reg once I first started having thoughts about scientology being not what it says it is.
  19. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    that's not actually true. Staff members and Sea Org members receive less auditing than public.

    It's not the auditing and the stupid emeter, it's the god damn rhetoric behind it all.

    Sea Org members receive less auditing than any public, Sea Org have been persuaded.
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  20. renegade

    renegade Silver Meritorious Patron