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The Freezone Lie

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
As you know I didn't get any of it.

Steven paid £20 per day for studying. We met every two weeks. He
had an Ex Flag course Sup.

Others provided the premises, tea coffee snacks and so on. It was only
one meeting held at my place.

Incidentally I drove Steve and others a 100 mile round trip on each occasion totally at my own expense and time. I didn't want or ask for any exchange for this.

So Steve, you clearly have upsets, and you ever want to meet for lunch,
coffee whatever you know where to find me.

You want a refund I 'm sure that could be arranged.

Now you know why I live in the middle of nowhere - impossible to find - charge a fortune :)
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Nah. No money; no 'professionally'.

Zinj

Yes, but what I am saying is that he has had some very heavy communication here that he has handled very well. I don't know if I could have been as patient as he in similar circumstances.

In Scientology, Zinj, we call that a "Pluspoint".
 

beyond_horizons

Patron Meritorious
Again , many thanks to the internet.

But even if he did arrange for a refund, after the meeting you know darnd well Terril would board his DC-8 and head back to Teegeak where Earth rules don't apply!

:)
 

Div6

Crusader
Uh oh.

Thats what I am aspiring to be. Hmmm.... My name is totally hippie. Now I have been doing, uh, er, well, call it research on the area.

Interesting practicals. :whistling:

Tie Dyeing 101

15 bong designs from everyday items

Visine - it gets the red out

Cooking while stoned - a safety guide
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
Uh oh.

Thats what I am aspiring to be. Hmmm.... My name is totally hippie. Now I have been doing, uh, er, well, call it research on the area.

Interesting practicals. :whistling:

I know - don't over do the peanut butter and jelly, I've heard it's addictive. :)

Oh, well I can't have a sig line that implies criticism of the lovely Bea.
Consider it changed. :)
 
S

Steven James

Guest
Teril,

I never accused you of taking the money. I actually asked you where it went. As Nada pointed out, 'they never answered that question'. That was one question that know one did answer. I never complained about the cost either. It is more expensive than CofS, though I didn't care, I absolutely love studying. Yes, we had an ex-flag sup, a damn excellent sup actually who would make an excellent teacher who never saw a penny of that money and gave his time selflessly. Very wise man, though even he realised there was something amiss, he stated as much in the emails, which I am not going to reproduce on a public forum as I have deleted them all. We were told that the money was going towards a building. However, after a year, most of the students were gotten rid off through an inability to deliver, when delivery was possible. It was down to four students, including a plant. That plant had been there and known about for well over a year and was allowed to stay!

The people running the group had no intention of keeping it, so counter postulated against it and failed to deliver, let students drift off, applied no ethics, yet still took our money for a building. It doesn't matter if it was ).20p or £20. I would be interested to know what happened to it. I would not be opposed to you getting it Teril, maybe splitting it half way between you and the sup, then you get some exchange for bringing people there and the sup gets some exchange for his time. I don't want a refund. I didn't ask for one.

Teril, in all fairness I did state that you too were being used. There was definitely without a doubt a big divide in the group between the 'OT's' who had been in the Church for aeons and those who had not, or if they had were not 'OT' yaddy yaddy or Class VIII etc etc.

I do not have an upset with you Teril, but I am going to have to agree with Ralph on this. I am simply stating the dissapointments that are the Freezone. All easily fixable problems which know one wanted to confront. Applying a danger condition when in confusion killed it really.

Teril MP did threaten you, I witnessed it.

Please, everyone on here, let this be a lesson learned for all of us. As a wise woman once said to me 'the problem with these groups is that they always have some good information, go in, get what you need and get out'.
 

Ralph Hilton

Patron Meritorious
There are a few outpoints here. £20/day and "more expensive than the CofS" seems like contrary data. £20 is very inexpensive for a day of study. Fringe psychology courses run at around £100 a day. e.g.
http://www.ppdlearning.co.uk/training/programmes/nlp-practitioner/index_html
Guessing at 10 students for a day, that would give £200 to cover premisses, food and whatever other logistical costs. The suggestion that the money would be going toward a building just isn't realistic. If highly trained people were flying over from outside the UK to assist then the money most probably was all spent on their expenses and fees.
What you appear to have seen in the UK is much the same as has happened over the last 20 years. Some people get together start up a group and it falls apart for various reasons.
The AAC started in EG in 1984 and was initially doing well. Most of the money was going to the lady who owned the house in which it was operating. The CofS destroyed that when she reportedly sold some copies of LRH tapes to a plant and was sued.
Steve Bisbey set up shortly after but soon switched over to doing Metapsychology. Robin Scott set up an ACC in Candecraig. The CofS got him into jail on a setup. The group fell apart and started using Bill Robertson "tech". Then Dianology took over and Robin started to supplement his income growing marijuana for which he spent a while in jail.
Mick and Eva Manias held together a small group for a while with meetings. The main problem they seemed to have was that the people involved all wanted to sit around talking about their particular preferred alterations to Scientology. Very few seemed to want to actually get on with auditing or contribute realistically to setting up training.
If someone is going to set up a workable UK training center then I would say they need to institute realistic pricing and they are not taking on an easy job. The UK has never been an easy place for Scientology to operate in. Saint Hill relied mostly on overseas students for its income. London org was never viable.
A group isn't going to be established without members taking responsiblity for it. Expecting Terril to hold it all together while others complain just won't work.
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
There are a few outpoints here. £20/day and "more expensive than the CofS" seems like contrary data. £20 is very inexpensive for a day of study. Fringe psychology courses run at around £100 a day. e.g.
http://www.ppdlearning.co.uk/training/programmes/nlp-practitioner/index_html
Guessing at 10 students for a day, that would give £200 to cover premisses, food and whatever other logistical costs. The suggestion that the money would be going toward a building just isn't realistic. If highly trained people were flying over from outside the UK to assist then the money most probably was all spent on their expenses and fees.
What you appear to have seen in the UK is much the same as has happened over the last 20 years. Some people get together start up a group and it falls apart for various reasons.
The AAC started in EG in 1984 and was initially doing well. Most of the money was going to the lady who owned the house in which it was operating. The CofS destroyed that when she reportedly sold some copies of LRH tapes to a plant and was sued.
Steve Bisbey set up shortly after but soon switched over to doing Metapsychology. Robin Scott set up an ACC in Candecraig. The CofS got him into jail on a setup. The group fell apart and started using Bill Robertson "tech". Then Dianology took over and Robin started to supplement his income growing marijuana for which he spent a while in jail.
Mick and Eva Manias held together a small group for a while with meetings. The main problem they seemed to have was that the people involved all wanted to sit around talking about their particular preferred alterations to Scientology. Very few seemed to want to actually get on with auditing or contribute realistically to setting up training.
If someone is going to set up a workable UK training center then I would say they need to institute realistic pricing and they are not taking on an easy job. The UK has never been an easy place for Scientology to operate in. Saint Hill relied mostly on overseas students for its income. London org was never viable.
A group isn't going to be established without members taking responsiblity for it. Expecting Terril to hold it all together while others complain just won't work.

Excellent post Ralph! :)

My last fee for work I did in England at Channel 4 - was 3,500 pounds a day.

That is a mid-range fee charged by people for our type of Corporate work in the UK.
 
S

Steven James

Guest
Ralph,

£20 wasn't for a day's study. the £20 was for 5hrs15 minutes study. If you work out the lenght of a course like The Student Hat or PTS/SP course at that study rate then it is more expensive than church prices. Like I said, it is not the price I am complaining about, so please don't insinuate this. I am now seeing the critics viewpoint when they feel that Scientologists often nullify their out-ethics behaviour down in debates and try and switch the subject a bit. I said I loved studying and didn't care about the prices. I just want to know where the money ended up. The sup, nor Teril got any of it.

No one was flown in for this group, they all lived locally.

No one in this thread so far has taken up any of the data I have written about the Freezone's core existence being built on the 'standard LRH tech' lie.

No one has said anything about the Auditor session confidentiality break.

It seems that Teril managed to change the subject to money given in exchange early on by avoiding answering the real question, which was where the money had gone.

Ralph, your observations about the UK Freezone are correct.

Alan to be quite blunt, I am disgusted that you would come in here and nullify this down despite all your so called years working with others. What happened it this group was sick and perverse. There was a vulnerable lady who came along to receive her first auditing in years and help with a PTP. She made a complaint via email to Germany and then all the OT elite stood in the kitchen nattering about her case and disclosing her emails and PTP. Rotten and evil through and through. This lady was right and was far ahead of me interms of immediate observation. At the time I thought she was wrong. Just about everyone who came (bar a couple really) were bright enthusiastic intelligent people who really wanted to do something. Several had their courses changed non-stop and were given shitty materials, despite the availability of materials, others were forced onto courses they didn't want and gave up.

And I am suprised that neither Ralph nor Alan took up the data I said about the Plant who was known to the group and was there for well over a year and a half coming every two weeks. I remember he wouldn't give his phone number. I assumed that all was OK with him when he came back again and again and that one of the OT elite had checked him out. He sat in that living room and told me and N that we were dramatising OTII when N recounted the time when CC took money out of peoples accounts without asking.

Anyway. I am going to end off here and let you debate it amongst yourselfs. I have had some incredible wins in the last two days and I don't want to overun here and I want to now move on with my new game and work with more positive terminals.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
It seems that Teril managed to change the subject to money given in exchange early on by avoiding answering the real question, which was where the money had gone.

You wrote a post antagonistic to the FZ, and the final paragraph
was this:-

"So Teril, what happened to the money we all paid for study?"

So I answered. Thats not changing the subject. As far as I know that money is still in a cocoa tin on the corner of a kitchen worktop. Didn't occur to me you were after such mundane information.

There was a vulnerable lady who came along to receive her first auditing in years and help with a PTP. She made a complaint via email to Germany and then all the OT elite stood in the kitchen nattering about her case and disclosing her emails and PTP. Rotten and evil through and through.

You don't have all the data. We were of course trying to help her. I can't remember what her original complaint was about. Very trivial. We all then
get group mails from Germany, and were trying to figure out the best course of action. At that time she had had several Dof P's a fair bit of auditing and hadn't paid for any of it. I then heard from her auditor that not only was she not paying for auditing but was expecting the auditor to drive many miles to pick her up. I also obtained data that she had had a long track record of complaining about auditors. So I figured that doing Mary Freeman's first dynamic integrity program would be a good way to go, and it probably would have. However the C/S wanted to keep her on auditing lines.

She had financial problems, legal problems and interpersonal problems that were affecting her badly. I word cleared her on legal jargon, and had several phone conversations giving advice in that area. Her auditor spent lots of time, unpaid, for helping her find solutions to some of these problems. Last I heard she had paid for her auditing, and that would have implied the legal
and financial problems were handled, and probably the related interpersonal relationship problems. She was charged around £30 per hour for auditing.
 

Ralph Hilton

Patron Meritorious
Its a big mistake to deliver auditing for no charge or without advance payment.
I lost thousands in the 80s being nice to people. Some will jump from auditor to auditor getting a few free hours from each without paying any.
Steven may have some validity in some of his complaints but given the way he threw false data about me on the forum without checking it out the data and insinuations he presents about Terril's scene are very suspect. Anyway he seems to think Hubbard was a black magician who stuck bugs on people's backs in some past existence. He's indicated that he has found some spiritual friends worthy of his presence so I daresay we won't hear much more from him.
 

Ralph Hilton

Patron Meritorious
Recently myself and several friends departed the Freezone........
Oh dear! More dirty laundry! :laundry:

I think there is a Freezone resultion forum for this.

T.I.

People who really want to make a noise don't want to do it quietly :)
He paid his money for services which, for the most part, he seemed to appreciate. He had some upset which was not handled well and made a noise.
If one spends money with a doctor or in a supermarket or with a lady of the night does one have the right to turn up later and ask how they spent the money? Gimme a break!

The FZ is a long way from perfection. If people see a scene they don't like then they can say so and go elsewhere. But Steven went along for a year and complains afterwards. To me it seems that for whatever reason he accepted services paid for week by week and continued to go there. He didn't pay a fortune and get ripped off.

While I disagree with Terril on various issues and see a bit of covertness I certainly would not accuse him of hypnotising or manipulating people for money. For the most part I consider him to be a well intentioned person who is not always too bright and can become a bit of a pain in the butt when his stable data get contested.
 

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron


People who really want to make a noise don't want to do it quietly :)
He paid his money for services which, for the most part, he seemed to appreciate. He had some upset which was not handled well and made a noise.
If one spends money with a doctor or in a supermarket or with a lady of the night does one have the right to turn up later and ask how they spent the money? Gimme a break!

The FZ is a long way from perfection. If people see a scene they don't like then they can say so and go elsewhere. But Steven went along for a year and complains afterwards. To me it seems that for whatever reason he accepted services paid for week by week and continued to go there. He didn't pay a fortune and get ripped off.

While I disagree with Terril on various issues and see a bit of covertness I certainly would not accuse him of hypnotising or manipulating people for money. For the most part I consider him to be a well intentioned person who is not always too bright and can become a bit of a pain in the butt when his stable data get contested.


Steven, you have left the Freezone womb!

Good for you!

Congratulations!

It is a pluspoint that you consider your former accomodations unacceptable now!

Here's wishing you many more births and more accomodating wombs.

And I am glad you handled that cave issue! :clap:

T.I.
 
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nw2394

Silver Meritorious Patron
And I am suprised that neither Ralph nor Alan took up the data...

Why would they or anyone else bother. Your comm is too outpointy. A supposedly known plant coming to the group for 18 months! Ridiculous. The plant either

1) wasn't a plant at all and you imagined it, or
2) wasn't known to be a plant for anything like that time, or
3) was being played and deliberately being fed crap data to give to his masters.

Grow up. You went to a group, got to not liking it and have gone elsewhere. Good for you.

Terril is a nice bloke. Far too reasonable for my liking, but a nice bloke all the same. Get off his back.

Nick
 
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