The Freezone Lie

[Dulloldfart]

Hey Steven,

Why do you use "know" instead of "no" in your writing? You've done it several times now. If you have some additional meaning you are trying to get across, I don't get it.

Paul

 

[Ralph Hilton]

If IFA is selling access to OT level materials then its just a matter of time before the CofS gets them prosecuted. From time to time websites appear that give free access to the data. They are usually based in Russia.

 

[Dulloldfart]

If IFA is selling access to OT level materials then its just a matter of time before the CofS gets them prosecuted. From time to time websites appear that give free access to the data. They are usually based in Russia.

But note that the Prometheus materials (and my checksheets linked to them but based on my experience sup'ing OT2 and OT3 in the CofS) have been online for three years now, and unchallenged as far as I know. Certainly no-one from the CofS has contacted me about the checksheets, and I don't hide.

Paul

 

[Terril park]

My first point of doubt was in April of this year when my Auditor degraded me out of session in front of other people. That sort of behaviour is not acceptal in the workplace or in the wog world. If I had told my family or friends about what Dominic actually did and the tone it was done in, I have no doubt that someone would want to break his nose.

You casually mentioned to me something along these lines, giving the impression it had happened in Switzerland. You didn't give me any details of who was involved or exactly what happened. Of course I wasn't in switzerland
and for all I knew it had been handled. Had you given me specifics I could have raised the matter with Dominic.

What I have learnt, is that you cannot expose the Freezone in a forum which is Freezone hunting ground and where any criticism of the Freezone is nicely nullified down to 'oh we don't gang bang sec check people' and 'as far as I know know one has gone bankrupt from freezone auditing'.

Isn't that what you ARE doing? And BTW this forum has at least as many critics as freezoners.

In April I was so horrified at the mentality behind this group ....

How would you describe this mentality?

The truth is, there is know outpoint on the year and a half I spent there,

This seems to contradict much of what you've said to date. ( I'm assuming know=no)

Controlling who gets out of the trap is evil. Justifying it becuase it is 'only £20' is just as bad,.......

What trap are you referring to?

What " Control" are you referring to?

The only reason why those OT levels are secret, is because they were stolen. The data goes back a long way and was not meant to be sold for £20, £1000 or whatever. In a selfless and couragous act it was given to mankind to free to help him escape the nightmare that was planet earth and at great risk.

Who gave it to Mankind?

I'm trying to understand what " The Freezone Lie" you refer to is.

Seems to me you are saying that someone gave OT levels to Mankind,
they were stolen, ( Presumably by LRH? ) and people in the FZ try to keep
the data secret when it should be free to anyone. Is that what you mean
by the " Freezone Lie"?

 

[mike]

I was not suprised when Michael Moore of the International Freezone Association put the 'Zeitgesit' movie into the qual library which contains it's 'oneness' message (contested by Hubbard actually if you look it up in the tech dictionary) and claimed that the biblical Jesus was only an allegory (the Zeitgeist version is very much like Blavatskys- a woman who pushed a racial doctrine which possibly inspired the holocaust). When you know the true story of jesus- it's amazing the parallels between him and Hubbard, a good side, but a side of betrayal also. Michael Moore refused to have some pro-tech data (from a book) in the Qual Library is it claimed that LRH was not source and that would demolish the whole foundations of his organisation and what he does to put people in doubt about the Church!

And also subsequent comments.

I was not make aware of your comments by you but by other parties.

The fact that you have upsets with some individuals in the Freezone does not make it right for you to write lies and make distorted comments about the IFA.

I do not know your real name and as far as I am aware, the IFA has had nothing to do with you, making your comments critical, vindictive and containing no merit whatsoever.

Some points I will clarify for others as I doubt if you would move out of a fixed condition and accept a change of viewpoint.

1. The IFA does not offer or charge for any auditing or services including OT levels. The IFA is NOT a delivery organisation and is, as described on the web site, an association of peoples.

2. The IFA maintains, for its own members only, a Qual library of books of all varieties, including a balance of non scientology books. I think you will find many Orgs do the same. When I was in the Sea Org, to qualify as a minister of the church I was required to do a Ministers course which included a study of the various main religions of the world, including Christianity. I believe a proper balance of material is important to have a good awareness and understanding of man. It is likely that further non scientology books may be added including glossaries and dictionaries. It is a reference library only.

3. There is NO fee paid by members for the library.

I would appreciate it Steven if you would verify your facts and not rely on hearsay and bring the ESMB into disrepute, causing possible unnecessary attention by the RTC to the Board, who would then likely attempt to close it down. I have no interest in the board but believe people should be free to express their thoughts. As LRH said once, "...freedom of speech does not mean freedom to harm by lies."
SCIENTOLOGY: A NEW SLANT ON LIFE. LRH.

I consider it in poor taste, a lack of character and, excuse me ladies, a general lack of balls, to criticize someone to a third party and NOT face to face.

If you have any issues with the IFA, kindly have the confront to address them to me, not to others.

 

[Ralph Hilton]

I would appreciate it Steven if you would verify your facts and not rely on hearsay and bring the ESMB into disrepute, causing possible unnecessary attention by the RTC to the Board, who would then likely attempt to close it down. I have no interest in the board but believe people should be free to express their thoughts.

This is confusing. Are you talking about the ESMB board or the IFA board?
There is no threat to the ESMB board from what has been said and it would seem strange if you had no interest in the IFA board.

 

[mike]

ESMB Board,

A slight threat perhaps

Mike

 

[Krysti]

 As LRH said once, "...freedom of speech does not mean freedom to harm by lies."
SCIENTOLOGY: A NEW SLANT ON LIFE. LRH.
[/QUOTE]

This is an interesting quote; I've never seen it before.  Was this overwritten at some point?  Or, was there more to this quote that is left out here...  "...freedom of speech does not mean freedom to harm by lies... unless the CofS is the one doing the harm by lying."  ???

 

[Zinjifar]

ESMB Board,

A slight threat perhaps

Mike

Nah. It's a given that the 'Church' would shut down ESMB if it could, just like it would eliminate any discussion of Scientology within *or* without the 'Church' if it could. By 'could' I mean here without further exacerbating the toxic reputation of the 'Church' as thugs and extortionists.

Naturally, given the 'Church's' lack of scruples and practically unlimited war-chest, they probably *could* get ESMB shut down, if they could do so covertly.

That's certainly one reason I'm suspicious of 'Church' influence when we get visitors spouting hateful and violent imagery and threats. Contrary to some fairly uninformed opinion, there is very little of that within the 'critical community', although there's plenty of factionalism, personal grudges and petty squabbles.

Zinj

 

[Ralph Hilton]

I consider it in poor taste, a lack of character and, excuse me ladies, a general lack of balls, to criticize someone to a third party and NOT face to face.
If you have any issues with the IFA, kindly have the confront to address them to me, not to others.

You are being very hypocritical. You run a protected list where the nattery class III can criticize people at his whim. You provide a space for his crap which those he attacks have no access to.
Pierre is quite happy to natter on your list where you moderate and defend him.
He is quite free to criticize others behind their backs on your private natter list.
He has demonstrated his blatant incompetence in "handling" those who prefer not to lick his ass here.
So, you piece of shit, practice what you preach.
This is a very open forum provided courtesy of Emma. Steven's criticism of IFA was not at all covert as it is obvious from a cursory glance at the membership list that you are here.
I'm sure that you would prefer that Steven keeps quiet. From what I gather he was a bit censored on your natter list.
He appears to have tried to discuss his disagreements on your list (perhaps that is untrue - I don't have access to your clique.) So he came to a more open forum. You'll have to deal with his criticism here, face to face, and, referring to your first sentence, demonstrate your character and balls to the ladies here if that is your measure of a gentleman.

 

[Veda]

ESMB Board,

A slight threat perhaps

Mike

Why would RTC care about "distorted comments" about the IFA?

(See earlier post #65, 9th paragraph down.)

 

[Zinjifar]

Why would RTC care about "distorted comments" about the IFA?

(See earlier post #65.)

It would care about them for two (at least) potential reasons:

1) It would care about those it authored as disinformation and black PR and 'attack' and
2) It would care about any internal dissention within the 'squirrel' or even 'critical' communities that it could exploit and exacerbate. Divide and conquer you know

Zinj

 

[Ralph Hilton]

ESMB Board,

A slight threat perhaps

Mike

Emma can deal with the soul destroying Tone 40 TRs of a Class III who claims to be able to reduce David Miscavage himself to a quivering jelly with his presence complete with legal ramifications.

I have total confidence in her ability to handle a couple of silly old bag OSA lawyers.

 

[mike]

I have no idea what What Class III you are talking about and, quite frankly, I am not interested.

I am not aware that Steven was on the IFAChat list. he can always talk to me if he has a problem.

I do not come to this list. I only came today because two people made me aware of the posts by Steven to which I have responded.

I am aware of your vindictive attacks on Pierre both publicly and in your prior private emails to me (which I still keep by the way).

I have made my statement and will spend no more time on ignorant and vindictive people such as yourself.

While you waste your time attacking people and asserting your rightness, we are working to get people up the bridge.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Bye.

Paul

 

[Veda]

I was not suprised when Michael Moore of the International Freezone Association put the 'Zeitgesit' movie into the qual library which contains it's 'oneness' message (contested by Hubbard actually if you look it up in the tech dictionary) and claimed that the biblical Jesus was only an allegory (the Zeitgeist version is very much like Blavatskys- a woman who pushed a racial doctrine which possibly inspired the holocaust). When you know the true story of jesus- it's amazing the parallels between him and Hubbard, a good side, but a side of betrayal also. Michael Moore refused to have some pro-tech data (from a book) in the Qual Library is it claimed that LRH was not source and that would demolish the whole foundations of his organisation and what he does to put people in doubt about the Church!

And also subsequent comments.

I was not make aware of your comments by you but by other parties.

The fact that you have upsets with some individuals in the Freezone does not make it right for you to write lies and make distorted comments about the IFA.

I do not know your real name and as far as I am aware, the IFA has had nothing to do with you, making your comments critical, vindictive and containing no merit whatsoever.

Some points I will clarify for others as I doubt if you would move out of a fixed condition and accept a change of viewpoint.

1. The IFA does not offer or charge for any auditing or services including OT levels. The IFA is NOT a delivery organisation and is, as described on the web site, an association of peoples.

2. The IFA maintains, for its own members only, a Qual library of books of all varieties, including a balance of non scientology books. I think you will find many Orgs do the same. When I was in the Sea Org, to qualify as a minister of the church I was required to do a Ministers course which included a study of the various main religions of the world, including Christianity. I believe a proper balance of material is important to have a good awareness and understanding of man. It is likely that further non scientology books may be added including glossaries and dictionaries. It is a reference library only.

3. There is NO fee paid by members for the library.

I would appreciate it Steven if you would verify your facts and not rely on hearsay and bring the ESMB into disrepute, causing possible unnecessary attention by the RTC to the Board, who would then likely attempt to close it down. I have no interest in the board but believe people should be free to express their thoughts. As LRH said once, "...freedom of speech does not mean freedom to harm by lies."
SCIENTOLOGY: A NEW SLANT ON LIFE. LRH.

I consider it in poor taste, a lack of character and, excuse me ladies, a general lack of balls, to criticize someone to a third party and NOT face to face.

If you have any issues with the IFA, kindly have the confront to address them to me, not to others.

It would care about them for two (at least) potential reasons:

1) It would care about those it authored as disinformation and black PR and 'attack' and
2) It would care about any internal dissention within the 'squirrel' or even 'critical' communities that it could exploit and exacerbate. Divide and conquer you know

Zinj

But why would RTC want to protect IFA's reputation?

 

[Zinjifar]

But why would RTC want to protect IFA's reputation?

I would think it's obvious that the 'Church' would care about any bone of contention that it believed it could exploit. Obviously, the 'IFA' cares about its reputation, so, the 'Church' would care very much about exploiting that 'care' and third partying any real or unreal disputes. It's like asking why OSA would send its stooges to say bad things about 'current management' and David Miscavige. If it thinks it will better disguise its other purposes, it quite obviously doesn't hesitate.

The 'Church' cares about causing strife. Does it promote dissention between 'Tech loving Zoners' and 'it's-all-bullshit-critics'? Certainly.

Zinj

 

[Veda]

I would think it's obvious that the 'Church' would care about any bone of contention that it believed it could exploit. Obviously, the 'IFA' cares about its reputation, so, the 'Church' would care very much about exploiting that 'care' and third partying any real or unreal disputes. It's like asking why OSA would send its stooges to say bad things about 'current management' and David Miscavige. If it thinks it will better disguise its other purposes, it quite obviously doesn't hesitate.

The 'Church' cares about causing strife. Does it promote dissention between 'Tech loving Zoners' and 'it's-all-bullshit-critics'? Certainly.

Zinj

This is pure speculation, but I look at "Pierre Class 12," and I look at the "IFA," and I wonder if there's not some special "arrangement," where the "Friends of Ron and the tech," on some level, are quietly working together with RTC.

$cientology loves to make "deals," and I can't help but wonder if the IFA comment about criticism of it bringing in the RTC to "shut down ESMB" was a glimpse into something unholy.

But then again, it's been a long day - so don't hold me accountable for any of this speculation.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I didn't take it that way at all. FZ loathes CofS because CofS tries to obliterate FZ practices.

It's fairly well known that CofS monitors critical forums and that they also monitor alleged dissatisfied FZ customers.

Nobody really wants to set off OSA and have them pull the crap here that they pull on other forums.

 

[Zinjifar]

I didn't take it that way at all. FZ loathes CofS because CofS tries to obliterate FZ practices.

It's fairly well known that CofS monitors critical forums and that they also monitor alleged dissatisfied FZ customers.

Nobody really wants to set off OSA and have them pull the crap here that they pull on other forums.

Why would you think they're not doing so aleady? It would be seriously 'out-tech' not to do so.

Zinj