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The handling of Mass

Veda

Sponsor
Veda needs wordclearing. :)

On the Scientology Grade Chart, OT 3 is mentioned as a level. Scientology publications print 'Success Stories" about OT 3. None of these Scientologists, who have done OT 3 "believe in Xenu or the Xenu story." That's called a PR line - they believe in OT 3, but not the "Xenu Story." You're doing the same thing, and it's tiresome. As I wrote earlier: Stop trying to PR me.
 

Pierrot

Patron with Honors
(snip) These were presented as "dangerous" and "secret" levels, hyped like crazy, used as justification for Fair Game, and mayriad abuses on Scientologists.

These materials are in need or review, revision, or discarding.

They certainly have nothing in common with the philosophy that Alan and Dart have expressed regarding processing.

If, for some God-forsaken reason, one would want to resurrect them, they would need major revisions - and with those major revisions would become something else.

Otherwise, I think we are going backwards.

I'm sorry if this makes some people unhappy, but these are my views.

Correct views, imo.

That these were presented as "dangerous" and the accounts of all disasters, destroyed lives, unhappy people after having done that part of "the Bridge" needs to have full attention of anyone attempting to "play" with those levels. So it doesn't keep on happening again.

However - although I read every personnal testimony with care, and I said already I find it emotionally very moving - personnal experience, bad or good, doesn't count in an academic discussion. I'm on some phy, psy, alternative coaching, etc. lists/boards (and of course music ones) and personnal experience doesn't count when discussing philosophy - bad or "success story" alike - very non-scientific.

I don't want to make you unhappy, Veda, but having read any and all "analysis" of OTIII and below since the 80s (don't bother to post - I read them all) there is no one who has as yet written about what that level, and levels below, really is. And yet some assert having discredited it all... - it seems like in the Tao "those that don't know speak, those that do don't"

Accounts saying Hubbard was taking drugs don't mean much to me - mainly it explains to me why I did find funny at my beginning of Scn he did put a Sea Org "revenimus" solving an old problem in a body of knowledge supposed to enhance one's living in present time. While in the University two friends of mine were taking drugs even at their exams, physics and medicine, tripping through the whole student years - yet they were always the first of their promotion and ended up at high international responsibility levels. Seems the tolerance level varies from one individual to another.

One needs, in my opinion, to skip the whole Xenu/implantology/cosmology teasers in order to find where in III the meat is. Maybe Hubbard did put it there to push the "sea org button? (I've seen guys signing for sea org right after starting that checksheet) maybe if that button wasn't pushed Hubbard did feel "OTs" would go on happily with life and he wanted an army...?

I did write before, and it was not PR, people I know who went through that level completely are out of the Scn trip, truly ex-Scientologists, and most have little interest in other disciplines having achieved what those have to offer. It might be that the FZ produced more ex-Scnists than you would guess. But it's all right you consider it as PR, lol, as long as you don't take it as a sales pitch with the funny idea I'd be looking on this board for "raw meat". My girlfriend would find this amusing - we know each other for about 5 years and she still didn't open any of Hubbard's book, same with all of my friends.

whetever - such a review you talk about above might take 1 or 2 pages, 10 to 20 (or more for a complete thesis) linking it to the works of contemporary Philosophy and Psychology, and other disciplines. But this subject stops here as far as I'm concerned. Of course I will not write it ;-) and would certainly not post it on ESMB, some could accuse me of wanting to take the missionary position on ESMB :whistling:

'nuff said - have a nice week-end.
 
I must have delivered well over 10,000 hours of processing, but always fect that the Scn procedures were cheating the pc out of their real gains.
In what way? What sort of processing would have maximized their real gains?

The rote procedures of running a session were a joke. Starting the session and handling ruds (in sequence) if neccessary simkply did not mean anything.

I would somply look at the pc, quietly ask them what they were hoping to acheive from the session and what was on their mind. Then handle. (None of this was written down as it was not "standard" tech.

What's wrong with handling ruds? Seems pretty innocuous from over here.

Having left the cult I decided to develop my own procedures, aimed at handling force, mass and charge. I ignored the "Bridge" as it was a) inverted and b) bullshit.

I wrote my own processes and upper levels. They were spectacular. I never had to promote, clients simply came and found me.

As always, processing alone will not resolve a case. The person requires training in whatever skills they wish to master. People were raving about their processing wins, but could not, or would not, be prepared to develop their skills to survive and win in life.

Could you go into a little bit more detail about these processes? How were they different from or superior to all of the processing you had benefited from previously? What in your opinion are the best processes for addressing mass, force, and charge?
 
I don't want to make you unhappy, Veda, but having read any and all "analysis" of OTIII and below since the 80s (don't bother to post - I read them all) there is no one who has as yet written about what that level, and levels below, really is. And yet some assert having discredited it all... - it seems like in the Tao "those that don't know speak, those that do don't"


Why don't you break the mold then and tell all of us, for the very first time, WHAT THIS LEVEL REALLLLLLLLY IS? Seriously, I'm interested.
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
OTIII ? As Shakesphere said; MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING :yes:

Dart, let's just go over a few things here. As background, at first when I got onto OT-3 I saw it as the biggest load of shite ever perpetrated. My whole Scientology world collapsed completely at seeing what LRH had dished up here. However, with the C/S I had I got through that and went on to have some really enormous wins on OT-3.

That's just background. Let's get onto the much ado about nothing bit.

When OT 3 first came out there were quite a few guys who got into serious trouble and were commiting suicide while on it. You must surely be aware of some of them - there was Quentin Schnehage, Jimmy Stewart, there was a guy from Port Elizabeth whose name I forget, and others too. OT-3 at that time (i.e. the first release of it) certainly was a very dangerous level. I believe in response to this LRH changed the sequence of running the incidents and things started calming down a bit.

But how could all this be if there was "nothing there", if the level was all bullshit to begin with? Something was certainly there to stir things up as it did.

Another point, on the OT3 materials there is a warning that if you do something or other you'll be unable to sleep. I ran into this on OT-3 myself when I first did it, but more importantly I have run into it several times since then when solo auditing on areas of, call it "theta entrapment" - not OT-3 at all. One time I went for 5 days without slepp. It was really scary - I got to think I will never sleep again and was quite freaked. Through all of it I was wide awake and alert - I even drove across the country on that 5th day, all quite OK. That night I took some drugs to knock me out - I'd had enough of this.

Again - how can this be if there is "nothing there"? There bloody well is something there and it can bite, let me tell you that. I hit it again earlier this week - got into some really way out spaces in session and unmocked some earlier games, came out of session feeling like a million dollars, and then no sleep for three days.

Nothing there? Come off it.

Alan, I'd appreciate your input too on this please.
 

Div6

Crusader
My .02

Solo Auditing the OT III materials, I had a number of areas 'wake up' and run out their "held down sevens" of using not-is-ness as a mass solution to a problem.

The methods of not-is-ness ranged from drugs, to guns, to mobs, to mass implanting, and many others. Each were tied to "pressure areas" in and around the body, and were accompanied with pictures and in some cases somatics. For me, the Xenu story was just a template for what could come up. I got quite a history lesson, as when I would come out of session I would search on the dates and areas, and usually come up with a "match". In some other cases the dates were way before recorded history here, or were date/located here but had no corraboration.

So yes, there is "something" there. I have not "freewheeled" like you describe though.
 

DartSmohen

Silver Meritorious Patron
Dart, let's just go over a few things here. As background, at first when I got onto OT-3 I saw it as the biggest load of shite ever perpetrated. My whole Scientology world collapsed completely at seeing what LRH had dished up here. However, with the C/S I had I got through that and went on to have some really enormous wins on OT-3.

That's just background. Let's get onto the much ado about nothing bit.

When OT 3 first came out there were quite a few guys who got into serious trouble and were commiting suicide while on it. You must surely be aware of some of them - there was Quentin Schnehage, Jimmy Stewart, there was a guy from Port Elizabeth whose name I forget, and others too. OT-3 at that time (i.e. the first release of it) certainly was a very dangerous level. I believe in response to this LRH changed the sequence of running the incidents and things started calming down a bit.

But how could all this be if there was "nothing there", if the level was all bullshit to begin with? Something was certainly there to stir things up as it did.

Another point, on the OT3 materials there is a warning that if you do something or other you'll be unable to sleep. I ran into this on OT-3 myself when I first did it, but more importantly I have run into it several times since then when solo auditing on areas of, call it "theta entrapment" - not OT-3 at all. One time I went for 5 days without slepp. It was really scary - I got to think I will never sleep again and was quite freaked. Through all of it I was wide awake and alert - I even drove across the country on that 5th day, all quite OK. That night I took some drugs to knock me out - I'd had enough of this.

Again - how can this be if there is "nothing there"? There bloody well is something there and it can bite, let me tell you that. I hit it again earlier this week - got into some really way out spaces in session and unmocked some earlier games, came out of session feeling like a million dollars, and then no sleep for three days.

Nothing there? Come off it.

Alan, I'd appreciate your input too on this please.

Well, let us sort this out for you.

Your first reaction that it was shite is the same as the large majority of those who enrolled. :yes:

Having paid a chunk of cash for the level and being in a rather Ethically dominated envorinment, dissent is discouraged. So, rather speak up and end up in Ethics, the general step was to buy into the story and take it on board as your own track.

This is where the suggestion part comes in. Again, the stuff about it being "dangerous", freewleeling, cannot sleep for 36 days is all BS, designed to add mystique to it and make it more desirable to the faithful.

At the AO we had a lad, David Gwillam, who claimed he was "feeewheeling", couldn't sleep etc. He had got himself into a real state.

So I got an empty pill bottle with a label stating the contents were a strong sleeping tablet. I filled it with Vitamin B1 tablets. I told David that these were strong sleeping tablets and he was to take ONE only, but is sleep-less-ness persisted he could take ONE more.

David took one and went to sleep. Slept like a baby for about 16 hours. He awoke refreshed and pronounced himself "cured" :clap: :clap:

As for Jimmy and Quinten, yes I knew them. Jimmy was very much like his side-kick, Frank McCall; semi delusional, Jimmy believed that if he got rid of beings around him he would recover his "OT" powers. In short, that he would be able to fly. :no:

So, one day he had a session, opened his upper dloor window and tried to fly.
I was closely involved in recovering his materials and covering things up before the police got involved.

Quinten was married to Joan :omg:

If you had ever been married to her, I think you would have hanged youself also. :unsure:

Clearly you have had some gains from going through the procedures of OT 3. That is fine, but they should be viewed alongside the realities of the level.

Dart
 

Pierrot

Patron with Honors
This is where the suggestion part comes in. Again, the stuff about it being "dangerous", freewleeling, cannot sleep for 36 days is all BS, designed to add mystique to it and make it more desirable to the faithful.

seems it works. Quite a number of those faithfull are "freewheeling" in a hypnotic "no case on post" state from one to the next Thursday 2 o'clock.
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ho ho ho

Yes I think I would have hanged myself if I was to be married to Joan. Point granted.

Jimmy I never knew personally, but I did know the McAlls and Thelma who Jimmy was married to. So OK.

But on the sleepless thing - no go. It has nothing to do with what is exactly written on the 3 materials. It has to do with areas of "bank" (whatever) that one gets into and one is just so wide awake and alert thereafter that sleep is impossible. I don't get the higgledy-piggledy pictures that is referred to on the 3 materials. I'm just so goddamn wide-awake that sleep is the futhest thing from what is needed. But after some days it gets to be just too much so a stiff brandy gets me unconscious agin and I feel more relaxed.

BTW I did 3 in the freezone and so there was no ethics or compulsion to agree with anything. I changed my view on it when I found the motherfucker that was sitting there blocking things off from me.
 

FoTi

Crusader
I read thru this thread and there are a couple of things I don't understand.

Alan - What does s/o or s/t mean?

Pierrot - What does s/he mean?
 

Pierrot

Patron with Honors
(snip) the general step was to buy into the story and take it on board as your own track.

and why would you buy it "as your own track" ?

in scientologese to put it shortly - either one is Clear and has no Dianetics type of incidents left, thus supposedly no own track, or one is not Clear has incident(s) on one's own track, but then one shouldn't be on III.

doesn't make sense :confused2:
 

Div6

Crusader
Well, let us sort this out for you.

Your first reaction that it was shite is the same as the large majority of those who enrolled. :yes:

Having paid a chunk of cash for the level and being in a rather Ethically dominated envorinment, dissent is discouraged. So, rather speak up and end up in Ethics, the general step was to buy into the story and take it on board as your own track.

This is where the suggestion part comes in. Again, the stuff about it being "dangerous", freewleeling, cannot sleep for 36 days is all BS, designed to add mystique to it and make it more desirable to the faithful.

At the AO we had a lad, David Gwillam, who claimed he was "feeewheeling", couldn't sleep etc. He had got himself into a real state.

So I got an empty pill bottle with a label stating the contents were a strong sleeping tablet. I filled it with Vitamin B1 tablets. I told David that these were strong sleeping tablets and he was to take ONE only, but is sleep-less-ness persisted he could take ONE more.

David took one and went to sleep. Slept like a baby for about 16 hours. He awoke refreshed and pronounced himself "cured" :clap: :clap:

As for Jimmy and Quinten, yes I knew them. Jimmy was very much like his side-kick, Frank McCall; semi delusional, Jimmy believed that if he got rid of beings around him he would recover his "OT" powers. In short, that he would be able to fly. :no:

So, one day he had a session, opened his upper dloor window and tried to fly.
I was closely involved in recovering his materials and covering things up before the police got involved.

Quinten was married to Joan :omg:

If you had ever been married to her, I think you would have hanged youself also. :unsure:

Clearly you have had some gains from going through the procedures of OT 3. That is fine, but they should be viewed alongside the realities of the level.

Dart

Between the fake sleeping pills and the laxatives, remind me to never accept ANY thing you offer at face value......:duh:
 
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