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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

Discussion in 'Stories From Inside Scientology' started by lkwdblds, Feb 28, 2009.

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  1. purple haze

    purple haze Patron with Honors

    Re: Church of Scientology Court Cases

    On Tony Ortega's blog today, it tells about how important the hearing for the Garcia case is tomorrow in Tampa, but I haven't seen when it will be held. I'm in the area and would like to attend. Aloha, Candy
     
  2. pkatz

    pkatz Patron with Honors

    Re: Church of Scientology Court Cases

    US District Court for the Middle District of FL, 801 N. Florida Av., room 13B @ 1330 hrs. Hope to see you there.

    ps: No electronic devices allowed in court room and have foto ID.

    I was wrong about the time, which I got by calling the courthouse. Sorry if anyone missed the morning session because of me!
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
  3. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

  4. purple haze

    purple haze Patron with Honors

  5. purple haze

    purple haze Patron with Honors

    Re: Church of Scientology Court Cases

    Thank you so very mucH, pkatz! Hope I get to meet you! I'm the blonde. :omg:
     
  6. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Re: Church of Scientology Court Cases

    Purple Haze, great that you will be there to observe the hearing, Looking forward to any report on the hearing which you would like to post here.

    This law suit is a make or break case for COS and they know it! If they lose this case, it will establish further precedents which will change the way they must operate in the future. COS is pulling out all the stops to stall this case and prevent it from proceeding on schedule and should they lose this motion today, it's likely that they will make many more unusual motions to the court as the trial proceeds.

    The problem for COS is that plaintiff's case is very strong AND plaintiff's have top legal representation who are willing to battle until the end and do whatever it takes to achieve victory. As usual, but more so than usual, COS's top rate attorneys are in the position of defending what is almost not defensible.

    It's almost a "Catch 22" which they have to defend. COS is insisting that plaintiffs must mediate the case using COS's arbitration system which requires that the case be arbitrated by a panel of 3 arbitrators who must be "Scientologists in good standing". Meanwhile, plaintiffs asked for their money back and by doing so, LRH justice codes demand that they be declared suppressive persons.

    You mix those two things and you come up with a "Catch 22". Scientologosts in good standing are not allowed, by COS policy, to communicate with suppressive persons. If they do communicate with them, that is grounds to declare them suppressive as well!!! COS declares in court that the 3 panelists will all be unbiased and will conduct a fair hearing and properly adjudicate the case. But if you must consider someone a criminal and are not allowed to talk to them, it is pretty hard to be fair and unbiased!

    JUST IMAGINE THAT THIS PANEL OF 3 SOMEHOW WAS ABLE TO BE FAIR AND UNBIASED AND WHAT IF THEY THEN RULE IN FAVOR OF THE PLAINTIFFS!!! THOSE 3 PANELIST WOULD BE REQUIRED BY CHURCH POLICY TO BE LABELLED SUPPRESSIVE PERSONS THEMSELVES AND WOULD HAVE TO BE KICKED OUT OF COS!!! There is no way possible under Scientology policy that the panelists could rule in favor of the Plaintiffs and still remain in good standing in the church!!

    The Scientology team of lawyers must figure out a way to convince the court that the panel of 3 will be unbiased and that there is a reasonable chance, going into the hearing, that they may rule in favor of the suppresive plaintiffs. This is an enormous obstacle for the Scn attorneys to overcome. As big as it is, it is not the only obstacle that they must deal with. There are several more issues, almost as key as this issue which must also be surmounted.

    The crafty COS execs and their attorneys tried to devise a system of forced in house arbitration for all scientologists who sought a refund. The system was rigged so COS would always win. The system looked good and on paper it seemed to be a perfect scheme were COS would always win the arbitration and not have to refund any money. As is almost always present in such schemes, their system has a major flaw.

    What was looked at as a "bright idea", a brilliant piece of thinking was to declare that the e arbitration panelists must be scientologists in good standing as must be the persons seeking their money back. We have the clever quirk that once a person asks for his money back he is automatically declared suppressive. If he is already declared suppressive, then he is not eligible to receive arbitration. It looks so foolproof at first glance; it is rigged so the parishioner can never win. Maybe sometime, in a case of hardship, if they wanted to, COS could give a parishioner a refund or partial refund at their own discretion. It might be wise for them to do this just for PR reasons.

    What COS and their attorneys actually created was a sort of mathematical conundrum or fallacy, a system where COS always won, but when the light of truth was shined on the system, it revealed that that system had a major flaw in it which forces it to be biased and unfair.

    Lakey
    !
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
  7. purple haze

    purple haze Patron with Honors

    Re: Church of Scientology Court Cases

    Well stated, Lakey.
    It was interesting to watch the videoed deposition of Ellis, the Justice Chief. Garcia's lawyer was very impressive and brought back memories of HCOBs etc. He clearly had the upper hand in the understanding department, as Ellis appeared handicapped by his religious beliefs.
    The judge was not happy with the Scn lawyer, and said, "You're making it increasingly difficult ... and you can tell by the tone of my voice".
    Afterwards, I got to meet Luis Garcia, the helicopter man, and say hi to Mike and his beautiful wife.
    Off to dinner with someone I greatly admire.
    Wish I could be here tomorrow. It starts at 9am.
    Aloha
    Purple Haze


     
  8. purple haze

    purple haze Patron with Honors

    Re: Church of Scientology Court Cases

    No worries. Wish I could meet you. Heading out of town in a couple of hours, pkatz.
    Write me if we can meet up.

     
  9. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Re: Cllassical Music - The Trumpet in Classical Music

    I reconnected with an old friend of mine who I knew in grade school, jr. high and high school. In Jr. High, we were both in the orchestra, he played trumpet and I played the French Horn. By the way, at that time I did not like classical music, I didn't get into that until age 19.

    Anyway, my friend isn't too computer savvy and didn't even really know that there's classical music for the trumpet. I decided to send him musoc from youtube. As long as I was doing that, I thought I'd post it here as well.

    The first piece is the Trumpet Concerto by Franz Joseph Haydn, one of the greatest classical composers. In a book I own rating the 50 greatest classical composers, Haydn rates number 5. They don't name a #1. #2 or #3. They choose J.S. Bach, Beethoven, and Mozart as being tied for first, second and third place. For fourth place, I don't know how they came up with this selection but they award 4th place to Richard Wagner. The other members of the top 10 are Brahms, Schubert, Schumann, Handel and Tschaikovsky. To me, Wagner, who wrote only operas should not be #4.

    Here is the Hadyn Trumpet Concerto, 3rd movement:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASB6hFUat4g

    My second selection is by a relatively unknown composer. He is Johann Nepomuk Hummel. Hummel did not make even #50 in my book and probably, if the book was extended to the top 100, he wouldn't make that either. Probably he would show up around #115 or so. That is a shame because based on talent alone, this man should probably be on the top 50 list. He was 10 years younger than Beethoven's age and the fact that their careers overlapped was a major reason why Hummel is no longer remembered. No one could compete with Beethoven after Beethoven hit his stride.

    A little about Hummel: He was a child prodigy, similar to Mozart but he didn't make as big of a splash. Hummel's father brought his son to see Mozart about 4 years before Mozart died. The father begged Mozart to teach his son. Mozart listened to the boy play the piano and agreed that he was very gifted and took Hummel into his house where Hummel lived for 2 years. He was Mozart's greatest protege.

    When Mozart died in 1791, Haydn was acknowledged as the greatest composer in the world but Haydn was in his 60's, which was quite old in those days. As Haydn stopped composing, around 1800, Hummel assumed the title of the western world's greatest composer.

    Beethoven, in the meantime had not reach greatness yet. As Beethover matured, there was a debate whether Hummel or Beethoven was the top composer and pianist. Hummel did have a liability however, he had been trained by Mozart and he learned the Mozart style of playing piano and composing. This type of music became known as the Viennese Classical school.

    Beethoven started out being trained in this manner as well. However, after writing in that style for about 10 years, Beethoven decided to abandon that genre and forge his own genre. I believe that two things motivated Beethoven. #1, he could see that Mozart took that genre of music to it's absolute pinnacle, there was no way to improve on Mozart's work as long as one remained composing in that genre. #2 was Beethoven's personality. He wanted to be the best composer ever and he preferred more emotional music with more power than what was possible staying within the confines of the Haydn and Mozart school. He was living when Napolean made his bid to conquer Europe and he got caught up in that. He was very strong willed. He believed not in allowing destiny to control his life but rather, he was determined to control his destiny.

    As a result, Beethoven decided to create a new genre of classical music which offered more leeway in expressing emotion and this led to the Romantic style of classical music. Beethoven did retain the classical forms which Haydn and Mozart had established but he greatly changed the emotional content of the music. Mozart's musics was based on good taste and clever nuances of sound. Beethoven tended more toward bombastic power and inner emotional conflicts in his music.

    A brilliant pianist, Mitsuku Uchida. who plays them both par excellance summed it up simply: "Mozart is Conversational while Beethove is Confrontational".

    Once Beethoven hit his stride, he was in a league of his own. For a few years, the earlier classical school tried to keep the old music popular but by around 1803, with the publication and performance of Beethoven's Eroica Symphony #3, Beethoven, now in his prime, eclipsed all other composers. Haydn, then 71 year old actually attended a performance of Beethoven's 3rd Symphony. Those trained in the older school, such as Hummel, suddenly became totally passe and were yesterday's news.

    Hummel quickly went from being number one to being forgotten. Not only that, regardless of genre's, Beethoven had more talent than Hummel and Hummel knew it. BTW, Beethoven liked Hummel throughout his life and treated him as an artist of equal stature, when it was true and even after Beethoven surpassed Hummel, he always treated him with respect as an equal.

    To show you how good a composer Hummel actually was, I offer the 3rd movement of his Trumpet concerto. The soloist in both selections is a young Norwegian female trumpeter by the stange name of Tine Thing Helseth. With all that being said here is the Hummel piece:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR8H8CSojis

    Lakey
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2015
  10. purple haze

    purple haze Patron with Honors

    Re: Cllassical Music - The Trumpet in Classical Music

    wow Lakey!
     
  11. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    New Post from Mama

    Latest new post from Mama:

    Yo Mama is heading to Italia; the world is calling out for more ugly Americans.

    http://youtu.be/OY-8-TgEtBc

    For homework, if you're going to follow us, you need to see If It's Tuesday, This Must Be Belgium, Three Coins in the Fountain, Roman Holiday, la Dolce Vita, and who could forget 007?



    Sent from my iPhone
    Attachments area
    Preview YouTube video The Gate 1 Italy Experience

    The Gate 1 Italy Experience

    Posted for Mama by Lakey

    Mama also posted a follow up video from the James Bond Movie, "Moonraker"

    007

    http://youtu.be/-LLxwwqpEpc


    Sent from my iPhone
    Attachments area
    Preview YouTube video Moonraker - Venice speed boat chase
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2015
  12. Maria Cuervo

    Maria Cuervo Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: Training at Miami org, 1981-2 part III- my favorite auditing story

    I was sr cs there. Miami. Left in 80.
     
  13. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

    The Sunshine Rundown was not out in 1980, Mer.
     
  14. Maria Cuervo

    Maria Cuervo Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

    I was with David mayo training on sunshine rundown. I did not say it was 'released.' I said I was training on it under David Mayo. Being trained while the product was under development.

    If you were to ask D Mayo who I was he WOULD know who I am. Not that I will publicly state it here at this very second or anything.

    And I am not here to prove anything to anyone. I am a former member, who after 1980 did return briefly and was at celebrity center briefly but the sunshine training was B4 I left. Once I left, end of 80, all I did was go to CC and undergo a few more insane weirdnesses for which both the AAC (including Mayo) and CoS disowned me (due to disinfo by CoS to the AAC, lies the CoS infiltrator told to AAC) and then hate mail + my absolute disavowal of the CoS idiots). I never ever after that participated in any alt Scn groups except some brief postings on Lermanet.

    But the training was on the sunshine rundown or what was to be the SR. Mayo specifically contacted my org to have me sent up due to my upstats as a c/s and auditor on the east coast. I never actually came back to my org to get anyone through the SR because soon after returning, I left CoS instead, never got the chance. The gestapo was coming down, I was demoted to a smaller office and saw the writing on the wall. Anyway, the woman that took my place as sr. c/s was quite frantic with jealousy, wanted my job, and this was a great occasion to get her way. It was win win for all the bozos including me who ever believed in all that stuff.

    I also had a brief online acquaintance with Lerma in the recent aut years and he could probably vouch for what I am saying if I were to talk to him. I was Sr C/S at a major US org. Yes, I reached the pinnacle of zero knowledge. LOLOL. Please do NOT make me further prove to you that I was a gullible idiot.

     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2015
  15. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

    Welcome Mer :))))
     
  16. Maria Cuervo

    Maria Cuervo Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

    Thanks Terril.
     
  17. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

    Mer, I would like to join Terril in welcoming you. You got out in 1980 and I think that is pretty cool. I wish I would have been smart enough to get out earlier than I did. I met my wife to be at ASHO in Sept., '80 and as a result we have two splendid children, so to that degree, its lucky that I stayed in past 1980. When Mayo broke off and formed his own Org, I was smart enough to know that Mayo was an extremely fine person. I did not know why CoS was telling so many lies about him, nor why he broke off from them. Still, I was not courageous enough to leave. However, had I left around 1986, I would be much better off financially and in other ways than I am now.

    I really admire you and those such as CO2 and Purple Haze who were able to see through all the falsehoods and crap and got out early, thus greatly mitigating the damages which CoS would have certainly brought about in your lives.

    Mer, it's been a while since a person relatively new to ESMB has chosen to post here. I really appreciate hearing from you and would be interested to hear more of your story, if you choose to post more here.

    On another matter, I have been watching tapes by Chris Shelton, "critical thinker". He is an ex scio long term staff member who has a logical and sharp mind and has an excellent speaking and writing style and has created some excellent videos about CoS. His views align pretty closely with many of us who post here on this thread. He has thought of some things which we have missed and possibly vice versa. Anyway, I really enjoy watching his various videos and highly recommend them.
    Lakey
     
  18. Maria Cuervo

    Maria Cuervo Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

    Hi Lakey, and Terrill, David and Julie are wonderful good people and I never doubted that, which is why I was finally unable to cooperate with that evil osa dude in the 80s, as I posted on the forum. David is extremely brilliant and although I don't remember knowing Julie I do remember how beautiful she is and her entire attitude was lovely. I am happy they settled. Will answer / write more in the next few hours. I am in bed on my phone typing with one finger. :)
     
  19. Maria Cuervo

    Maria Cuervo Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

    i had a harrowing escape from celebrity center after 1980 and had the AAC thing too, so while I got off staff I was still a mindless twit freaked out I was declared and so on. Out but wishing not. Are there ways to get a copy of my declare? Shucks. Sure could use it. Lol if I had it I would frame it but I threw it out long ago. :(. And my name is Maria.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2015
  20. Maria Cuervo

    Maria Cuervo Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

    So correction much later, in 86 or87 after AAC stuff and after I was gone CoS wanted me to audit celebrities and so on at ccla, to recruit me and wipe out my sins in exchange for a so contract. I had been a case cracker and had fixed a few lower tier celebrities at aola. I had a way of calming savage beasts into f/n s. I had a tendency to use old tech from the early tech vols which were not the usual expected commands. It was LRH so could not be seen as squirrely. I could get an f/n in a minute, we would go get that noted and then return to session. I usually resorted to those old bits when the case was upset. I did have a reason or two. I wanted the pc not to know what I was asking in advance since they were introverted enough already. The processes in question were ruds in a sense and could extrovert the person. I also wanted to be spontaneous and caring, not robotic. But I did not tell anyone these secret weapons of mine. I just used them to fix upset cases all over the east coast and in la. Yes I was squirrely and a bit alternative-retro. But it was all LRH tech, exactly applied right out of the tech vols.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2015
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