ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

Discussion in 'Stories From Inside Scientology' started by lkwdblds, Feb 28, 2009.

Tags:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Ted

    Ted Gold Meritorious Patron


    Often that's all it takes, someone to care, to listen, to acknowledge, to understand. Contrary to the party line, it doesn't take a whole "Bridge" to set a being right.
     
  2. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    Ira Chaleff and I **think** his first wife, Candy. She's still around. Sally is long dead (cancer). I don't know anything about Ira.
     
  3. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    I loved Tommy's. You could count on Rolls Royces and beaters in the parking lot. It was egalitarian heaven. I don't eat meat anymore, so I don't go very often anymore - just to bring friends.

    The place I liked the best was (and still is) the Brooklyn Bagel Bakery on Beverly near Lake. I would get lox and cream cheese from Ralphs and fresh bagels every Sunday and a couple of times a week for lunch (when I was on the bc). They are the best - always fresh. Whenever I'm in the neighborhood, I stop, and get a baker's dozen.

    There was a Greek restaurant that we used to eat at a lot. I don't remember the name.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2009
  4. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Skye Chaleff was always hanging with Sally

    Carmelo - Skye Chaleff was always hanging with Sally. I used to take the checks to Yvonne's office to be signed by her and I recall Sally often being there acting as Yvonne's secretary and she often had Skye with her. Yes, you are right about the name Ira, I think that was correct. I remember what the husband looked like, just under 6' tall with a mustace and dark brown hairand a little on the heavy set side but he was not around much. I also had to go to Sally's berthing area a couple of times and Skye was with her there too. I do not know of a Candy Chaleff, never heard the name.
    Lakey
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2009
  5. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    Gay and Al have been divorced for about two decades. Al and his wife, Lynn are still "in" and are OT Vll. They live in San Gabriel area. he is a print broker.

    You can read his stories in the older editions of "The Latest" - on line under humor.

    http://thelatestmagazine.com/Archiv.../tabid/37/Default.aspx?Search=Humor+Al+Ribisi

    You can see Lynn's videos on YouTube.

    Vanni and Marissa act. Gina babysits for her sister and her sister's husband, Beck. Beck is David Campbell's kid. It is a small networked out world.

    Gina left the SO, CC, and her husband last January.

    If you ever shake hands with Gay, count your fingers when you're done. She is an entertainment business person that Gordon Gekko could admire.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2009
  6. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    If he was Sally's kid, it is even more tragic. Sally went from being a top fashion model to OT married to the powerful Captain of the AO to divorced, right out the bottom, and then dead.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2009
  7. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    I think you mean Buck Haegele. Last i heard, he was still alive in Woodland Hills. I have his address from 15 years ago.
     
  8. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Re: Al Ribisi

    The "Latest" magazine is still mailed to me. I always read Al's column but haven't seen it in the Mag recently. I knew he had been married for a long time but was not sure if it was to Gaye or some other woman. I never knew Lynn, she came way after my time at CC. I also could not remember the name of his current wife so I said I think it may have been Gaye but I knew he could have had a wife after Gay. I try and wing it by memory and if I goof up, then I hope someone such as yourself will correct me. My recent memory is no where near as good as my old time memory. I think this is typical for people as they age. My long ago memory is getting better and the short term memory is getting worse. I do not understand the tech on this phenomena. I know there is some brain function involved and that short term and long term memories do not reside in the same area, be it brain tissue or thetan created facsimiles. As I recall, in a couple of issues perhaps a year to one and half years ago, Al told of meeting with Gaye again and that Gay was in touch with Soo and then Soo called Al and the two of them met. That spurred me to try and see if I could contact Soo myself. I was sure she would talk to me, you know when you do 330 hours with one auditor, you kind of get to know the other person. According to my "go between" at IFACHAT, Soo refused to email me but sent her best wishes. This person told me Soo is very leery of the Internet and anything to do with Scientology.

    That bagel place up on Beverly and Lake is unknown to me. We did not go much further north than Wilshire Blvd. Beverly and Lake was too far out of the area for me to be familiar with your bagel place. If I am in L.A. now, and I'm hungry, I'll check it out. I remember the Greek place now that you mention it. Wasn't it in a small strip mall on the Southwest corner of Vermont and Fountain. As to Sally Chaleff, I had no idea she was once a fashion model. There is some story about her on the "Why are they dead website." In the story, someone was sent to see her and tell her some information and they went to where she lived and she let them in and told the person that she was dying of cancer and that her seniors told her to just write up her hats and then just die as fast and painlessly as possible. I believe this is called end of life auditing. They also told her that she pulled in the cancer and that the Sea Org could not possible afford the expensive medical treatments so the most ethical thing to do under these circumstances is to just die and pick up a new body.

    You seem to be quite up on old time CC and have much stronger comm lines still in place than me which isn't saying much. In the last 17 years or so, the only old timers I have run into are Val Garcia, Kathy Garcia, Curtis Jones and Pamela Landcaster. That's it. I still had significant contact with people up until 1992 when I was getting NOTS auditing regularly at AOLA. After that I moved to Orange County and completely lost touch with the old CCLA scene. I'm just trying to do it all from memory except for this 1974 LRH Birthday game list which is printed material.
    Lakey
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2009
  9. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Re: Al Ribisi

    A Double Posting Occurred.
     
  10. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    It was Lynn who called Soo. They tried to get her to go to Flag with them.

    Pam Lancaster has been "in" for nearly 40 years. After Otto left, I would have thought she would have gotten a clue, but the cluetrain left the station without her. She is mentioned in Nancy Many's new book --- which, BTW, is a great read.

    You can call Pam at CC any time. She may not answer her phone, but she'll call you back if you leave your name and number.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2009
  11. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Buck Haegele

    Yes, Haegele seems correct. When I was brand new in Scientology I worked at Aerojet and was disseminating to people and Buck heard me. He was already heavily involved in Scn and the two of us became good friends. We stayed friends for many years and were on course together at ASHO in 1976 and 1977 on the weekends. He and a couple other guys and I liked to drive to Organicville for lunch or just eat at Tommy's. I believe there was a roach coach which showed up at ASHO as well, and if we we were in a hurry we just bought a sandwich from the that.

    If you would be so kind, I would appreciate it if your could pm me with his old address, I will definitely send him a letter by snail mail. Do you think he is still in the Church? If you do then my letter will be different than if he is out.
    Lakey
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2009
  12. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    There is one aspect to those days at CC, AOLA, and ASHO that you haven't touched:

    safety.

    To start from the end:

    When the LA Org, AOLA, CC, and ASHO moved, the crime rate around MacArthur Park went up 1000%-- that is by actual LAPD statistics.

    We ( Scientologists) made it safe, night and day. Gale Pollack and I used to go on long walks down Wilshire to the Miracle Mile. We'd get back to our apartment (the Westlake Lanai), across the street from the AO around 4 in the morning.

    Gale Pollack is still "in," and in the LA area. If anyone has her contact info, I would love to have it.

    At any hour of the day or night, literally, there were Scientologists walking, running errands, shopping, talking, going between buildings or apartments.

    We never felt a tinge of danger.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2009
  13. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    Buck and his wife did Knowledgism (Alan's thing) around 1995.

    I PMed contact info from that time period.
     
  14. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    I never thought of the safety issue.

    Carmelo, There's so much to say about your recent posts! I thank you for the pm with Buck's address, I will also do a "people search" for his phone number. The name Gale Pollack rings a bell, I saw her around a lot but do not remember what her post was and never spoke to her one on one. I was friends with Julie Anne Warner who helped write the Freedom newspaper and she took very long walks too whenever her case keyed in, which was often. In fact she wrote the book "Arthur's Octupus" which was an oblique description of her case. She was never once mugged in many years of walking around alone in that district of L.A..

    The safety issue had never crossed my mind nor did I ever hear anyone bring it up. It makes a lot of sense though. All the fine staff members from the various Orgs created a zone of "Ethics Presence" which would have been very discouraging to burglers, car thieves and other crooks. As you say, there were so many Scientologists out on the streets that if any trouble arose, all one would have to do is yell out, "HCO Bring Order!" and help would be there immediately (Our own 1970's version of "911"!) The closest thing to bringing up safety was bringing up the economic impact of Scientology as regards establishments such as Denny's, Langers, Tommy's and the like. Heber, when he was in the GO, gave a talk to us of how much positive economic benefit we were causing for the local businesses. This included the staffs who were buying stuff daily plus the public, with more money than staffs, who were there for services. I know LRH made the same economic point regarding Saint Hill Manor in its early days as regards the town of East Grinstead.

    Can you think of anything besides safety which I left out? There was economic impact on the neighborhood which I just touched on above.
    Lakey
     
  15. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    I think that it is ironic that the Co$ is now on the flip side of the pendulum regarding sex these days.

    Flying straight into the face of 1950s grey flannel suit conformity, Dianetics and Scientology loosened the stays on the inside the box thinking (remember Solari and Carr’s skit with the bags?).

    In earlier times (the 60s and 70s):


    In conjunction with the “pill,” the publishing of “Playboy” magazine, Scientology auditing helping people be free, digital photography, and the internet, there has been a sea change in the world’s sexual practices and ability to communicate on that subject.

    It is hard to measure the Scientology contribution because it was in the theta universe.

    I just know and knew (as the restraints were loosening) that the ability of each person to open up, speak freely, and act affirmatively on their desires had a rippling effect.

    The author of “The Housewife’s Guide to Selective Promiscuity,” Maxine Sanini (spelling may be incorrect), was a Scientologist.

    Whether it was the huge porn industry in the Valley (San Fernando), the strippers and hookers working their way to OT, the huge gay population getting auditing (no longer staying in the shadows or closet), the other sexual practices that everyone was willing to talk freely about (masturbation, oral sex, vibrators, sex with animals, scat and golden showers, etc).

    When “Deep Throat” came out, everyone went to see it.

    On the Sunset Strip, there were same sex couples dancing with one another.

    Margaret George, AOLA’s E/O always had her cute honeys.

    Hot tubs and swimming pools filled with naked staff and public was never an issue.

    ASHO staff (girls / women) wearing mini skirts and no underwear.

    It was a great time to be young and alive.
     
  16. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    I'm not qualified to write on Scn's sexual impact.

    Carmelo - Very interesting post! I'm not qualified to write on Scn's sexual impact. Oddly enough, I have my own thread on sexuality going right now and it is being well received and you have participated and I am learning a lot from everyone.

    I have a couple of anectdotes. Treasury division was located in the basement of the staff house of 9th and Lake. Ken W. who was a course supervisor, berthed right there next to treasury division. He set up one of those portable folding wall contraptions to serve as a barrier between himself and treasury, you know, one of those things a women would get dressed behind in a movie, while talking to a male friend. Anyway, Ken got married to Kathy and she moved in with him in his basement berthing space. We would hold a daily treasury meeting right after breakfast, around 8:30 AM before we went on post or to study. Well, when Ken and Kathy were newlyweds, they would have intercourse in the mornings before they went to post at 9:00. I remember they liked to make love to Elton John's song "Rocketman". About every other day they would do it about 8 feet from our meeting, with only a flimsy screen separating us from watching them. There was a lot of grunting and groaning from both of them, both in there early to mid 20's. When they were done, they would just walk out, individually, greet us with a "High Guys, have a nice day!" and walk right past us and go on post. There was no bathroom down in treasury so they probably had to clean up at the bathroom over on 1809 W. 8th St. before course started. They were not in the least embarrased about making love right next to us on a regular basis.

    The other thing is that you mentioned Margaret George, the Master at Arms. She was such a character in her tight pants, sun glasses and heavy leather jacket, riding her big motorcycle to her post at 1809 W. 8th. Everyone knew she was gay and we knew she had her eye on several of the beauties runing around the Centre. She must have been about 50 at the time and some of her interest in the younger girls was in making sure that they chose decent and ethical guys for their 2D's. She was really an ethical MAA and did excellent handlings. She took the post of MAA which was under the lowly Director of Inspections and Reports and made herself one of the most senior and looked up to staff in the Org. No one would dare mess with Margaret George, she was one tough cookie!!

    One thing I will say is that most marriages among young staff where just short term sex dalliances. Having and raising kids, though not banned, was not one of the main purposes there by choice. Salaries, at $10 a week, would not support a child and the 80 to 100 hour weeks were not conducive to it either. Chris Many had many different wives, Bob Mithoff had several, Randy Mc Donnel had several and so it went. The news was when a couple was traditional and stayed together such as the Rigneys (Bruce and Christine) did and they even had a child, Jed, while on staff. Chris Many's last marriage with Nancy has lasted, Helen and Joe Hochman's lasted, and there were many others but those were still in the minority.

    Like you, I find it odd that in those days, Scientology was more progressive towards the second dynamic and nowadays, they are at the other extreme, and are much more chaste and dowdy than the society in general. I cannot even estimate how much Scientology contributed to the sexual revolution. You seem much more qualified than me to do so. Interesting topic though. PLEASE CHECK MY POST ON PAGE 20, POST 199 OF THIS THREAD, I am going to add more names now.
    Lakey
     
  17. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    You know so much,do you know Hector Carmona?

    Carmelo - Thanks for the latest upadates! Do you know Hector Carmona. Blue Spirit told me he talked to him at Nancy Many's book signing but did not get a contact number. I was invited to the event at Big Blue when the Basic Books were issued. My one remaining friend who is still in invited me along with some other people. I went to that event just to see what was going on and how the basic books were presented. While there I ran into Pam Lancaster and talked to her quite a bit. One thing about her is her youthful appearance. She must be pushing 60 and yet she could easily pass for late 30's. Also, she lost a lot of weight. When I first ran into her I made the wise ass remark, "Where's the rest of you?" She did not like it and the other people I was with thought it rude as well. I tried to recover and said something like, "Well, what I was trying to say was that you have lost so much weight that its hard to recognize you." This didn't work all that well but did mitigate my initial remark somewhat. Wow, did that girl have a voice when she first arrived at CCLA!

    Any chance of you holding a little event for we ex CCLA people? I would be willing to chip in on the costs and help do the phone work and mailings and things of that sort. God, it would be fun to meet them and catch up!
    Lakey
     
  18. Fun Idea!

    Great Idea Lakey, A CCLA Ex-Sci reunion gathering! What fun! I say, go for it! :)
     
  19. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    I don't know Hector Carmona, but it doesn't take a genius to figure if he was at Chris and Nancy's, somebody has his contact info. Scientologists are naturally good at communicating and staying connected to their friends.

    Pam is about 65 or a tad older. She used to sing in the bathrooms, or actually, just any old place she'd happen to be. She is one warm individual. I remember one time she did an exam on a PC of mine, where between the end of session (F/N) and the exam, he had been scared by a car. She just looked at him with her warm eyes, and his needle floated.

    There are parties where exes, freezoners, and Scios all come and play, but they are by invitation only. It's pretty much like gays in the military - don't ask, don't tell. Talk bout fragile realities is avoided - tacitly avoided by all concerned. Mainly they happen around Glendale.

    Nobody is going to advertise a party such as you describe on the internet. OSA would be taking names and license numbers.

    You've got to know somebody, I mean - really know somebody to get invited. Pretty much like bootleggers during Prohibition.

    My advice -get reconnected with your friends (Scio, ex, and freezone) - learn the tacit rules. If you find who you're looking for, don't broadcast it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009
  20. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    I would say, when the mood hits, the time is right.

    I remember Charlie Rush driving his VW van down the freeway with a friend and I fucking our brains out over the engine, in the back window.

    There was a party where Shelley Gerber was getting it on with someone on the living room floor, and his dog, Schwartz came up behind him and started licking his butt. Everybody cracked up.

    At that time, the rules had been thrown out. There were a lot of horny dogs in the kennel. Alan Walter had two girl friends at one time. Couples made out on the spur of the moment, even if they were married to others. It wasn't that big of a withhold to get off to a regular partner or spouse.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.