ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

Discussion in 'Stories From Inside Scientology' started by lkwdblds, Feb 28, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    Don't steal his thunder on his thread Dart!

    Start a NEW one. :D :D :D
  2. DartSmohen

    DartSmohen Silver Meritorious Patron


    My lips are sealed.

  3. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    So, Knowledgists still run "reach & withdraw", eh? :whistling:

    Mark A. Baker
  4. Lesolee (Sith Lord)

    Lesolee (Sith Lord) Patron Meritorious

    If you didn't feel good after 300 hours of good auditing I would be mightily surprised. Well done on not making yourself wrong for something that wasn't ever wrong.

    Hey Yank, I thought it was only us Brits who had to keep a stiff upper lip. :naughty: :whistling:

    I don't have to imagine how this feels. It's been happening to me time after time. :bigcry: :bigcry: :bigcry:

    I have caught up with all the prequels this evening. A great read. Thanks. :thumbsup:

    Waiting for the next installment.

    :drama: :drama:
  5. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    by *definition* good auditing will result in a 'win' and Very Good Indicators, so, this is a bit of a tautology

  6. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Thanks, Lesolee!

    Reall nice to hear from you, how do you like my British speak?
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2009
  7. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Now guys don't quarrel.

    If Dart has some horror stories on Irene, its fine with me. I just go by my experience working with her. If she did some bad stuff later on and I learned about it, I would just say that she was great when I knew her but later on several reliable people have some documentation that she did some really bad stuff. I would never feel the compunction to write off the good she did for me when I knew her.
  8. Mockingbird6

    Mockingbird6 Patron with Honors

    Thanks for a realization

    Hi Lakey,
    This is my first post to ESMB, so I hope I do it right. I have read your whole story and enjoyed it tremendously. Stories like this always get me thinking and this morning I had the following realization:

    You remember somewhere LRH talks about people's estimation of their own importance and how much they assert it. For many years I have not been able to reconcile how come a celebrity is so much more important than me, but I have been "reasonable" about it. This morning I got to thinking about why Yvonne was so put out about Flo not finding toilet paper. I don't imagine Flo was going around spouting off about how important she was, rather like many celebrities in Scn probably didn't think much about it. (I actually get kind of embarrassed when the reges keep telling me how wonderful I am but then it always gets deflated when they tell me how much money they want...!) I ate meals with the Presley grandkids at the Lemon Tree several times years ago and they were not asserting their importance and were just cute kids.

    Then I saw that it might be this way: a person who is not important (I am not talking about Yvonne, I always thought she was terrific) gets someone on their lines who is "very important" and by being connected with this person thus also becomes "very important." And the lower the person really is in importance, the more emphasis they would put on the connection to the "important person."

    This suddenly answered to me why DM loves being connected to TC. It increases his (DM's) importance! And why celebs are so highly touted in the church, it impresses the congregation with how important the people are who get to connect with them!

    Maybe this was obvious to everyone all along but it sure did answer a lot of questions for me.

    Best to you,
  9. Welcome!

    Welcome Mockingbird 6, I hope that soon you will be posting your own stories!
    I'm glad that you could join us, great that you got a good cog from Lakeys thread! New views are happening daily here! Welcome! :)
  10. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    "Listen to the Mockingbird" an old song from the '40's!

    Welcome Mockingbird6! What's the 6 represent? You are probably way too young to know but a hit song from the 1940's was, "Listen to the Mockingbird" and if this post is any indication of the quality of your future posts, people should follow the advice of the song title.

    Seriously, I believe you are refering to a term in Psychology or even the dreaded psychiatry called "transference". As far as I know, this term was originated way back in the late 1700's in Vienna, Austria by Franz Anton Mesmer. Durning a session of Mesmerism of that time, the operator attempted to transfer some of his good traits to the patient or conversely to have the patients bad, unwanted traits be transfered to the operator and then out the ground.

    Anyway, with celebrities, most of us seem to be attracted to them and then feel that once they had interacted with them, that makes the non celebrity person feel more important. You make a good point! I can assure you that in Yvonne's case she did not have to resort to doing that. She was The Celebrity" around CCLA and the regular celebrities who were there were trying to interact with her so that they could feel more important.

    Keep posting ! I like your thought processes.
  11. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    The Old Days - Aboard the Apollo 1973-Prequel Part 10

    My story of my nearly 3 year and 4 month stint, the first 6 months or so at the L.A. Org plus 6 months as CCLA public and then over 2 years as CCLA Sea Org staff are now virtually completed. I could just end it here but I am enjoying writing this and am going to continue to see what comes up.

    I first heard someone drop the line that I was going to Flag. I had spent a quiet month studying my Org Officer/ Product Officer Hat Pack and remember sitting at a desk with some execs waiting for people to show up for an exec meeting and I think it was Jan Stone who piped up and said that I was going to Flag to a friend. My ears perked up and I asked Jan, what was it she just said. The person talking to Jan said that I wasn't supposed to be told yet and Jan said no, that was no longer true and that it was okay to mention it now. I joined the conversation and I was told that Flag had ordered me to come over a month ago but that Yvonne did not want me to go and fought them tooth and nail. I was a little overwhelmed, I thought Wow, I am going to get out of CCLA Treasury after all. I am going to Flag and will be working right near Ron. I had postulated that I would get out of CCLA Treasury within some reasonable time such as 6 months and my postulate had stuck. Wow, I thought, my XDN worked, I am so powerful now. I had a twinge of anger with Yvonne for trying so hard to prevent me from moving up.

    When the exec meeting started, the announcement was made. I was beaming with pride, not realizing in the least that my impending Flag experience would be the ugliest experience and biggest failure in my career. Irene told me I would be leaving for Flag in 2 weeks and that there was no reason for me to stay at the meeting and to leave and start writing up my hats and organizing my area so a successor could take over. The next two weeks, I did the basic disbursement functions and usually stood over Adele to make sure she was doing things right. At the end of two weeks, I had my plane tickets but I was not allowed to open the envelope containing them until I was at checkout at the airport. There was no big send off, no going away party, after all that sentimental stuff was just WOG bank dramatization. I do not remember saying good by and shaking hands with or hugging anyone other than the people in Treasury, Kitty, Frances, Adele and the Cashier, Mark Ambrose.

    NAME DROPPING The people I knew best and who I hung out with were few in numbers. I must have gone to say good bye to them before I left. I don't remember doing so but if I did, I would have made a special effort to say goodbye to Bob Riggs, Examiner, Carole Ferguson, Course Sup, Kenny Wasserman, HQS Sup, Elena Walbroek and Bob Mithoff in Div 6,Julie Goetz and Gordy Kunkle in Qual, Heber Jentzch who was now the Assistant Guardian, Henry Baumgard from the Book Store, Bruce Rigney in Div 6, Dick Hubbard in mimeo Julie Anne Warner in Div 2 printing, Kenny Lipton in tech, Tony Klock and Val Garcia in Estates, Iris Reaves and Irene as execs, Betty and Jon Murakami in Div II and Daphne in the snack bar area and Richard Royce who was public. Those were all the people who I had ever done anything socially with in my three years. My original FSM, Harry, was my best friend at the time and he took me out to dinner at the Velvet Turtle in Hollywood a night or two before I left.

    As to non Scientologists, I said goodbye to Ken Rothschild who was Harry's cousin who introduced me to Harry. All these people had a certain characteristic of decency, honesty and just being themselves and caring about helping others. Ken Rothschild had a friend, Rick Charleston, who coined an adjective for these type of people that stuck over the years with Ken and me. He called them "Down to Earth" Ken, who is still a good friend, told me it was okay to use his last name in my post and thought I could honor his deceased friend Rick Charleston for coining the term "Down to Earth" when refering to people we thought highly of who were in valence or just being themselves.

    Miscellany and some closing thoughts - Peter Gilham
    Peter was Yvonne's first husband and they had three children whom I know of, Teri and Janice who both were Commodore's Messengers on the Apollo when they were teenagers back in the early 1970's and there is a brother, Peter Jr.. The story was that the marriage dissolved because when the Sea Org was formed, Yvonne wanted to join immediately and Peter did not want to join. Though they divorced, they remained close friends and Peter often came from his Org in Phoenix to CCLA to put on his diessemination lectures.

    THERE WAS ALSO NIGHTLY ENTERTAINMENT - 7 NIGHTS A WEEK AND THERE WAS A SNACK BAR WHERE TASTY AND HEALTHY DRINKS AND SNACKS COULD BE PURCHASED. CCLA was the only Org I knew of where someone could drop in and hear some good entertainment and then go to the snack bar get coffee and some food and just hang out and not be bugged for money, or to fill out a survey or do anything but just relax and enjoy the space and any conversations which you were having with your friends.


    CCLA was an incredible place to be in the early 1970's. It was not really LRH's baby but rather it was Yvonne's creation. It is true that LRH spoke on tape of a need for a Celebrity Centre and gave an outline of what it should consist of and who its public should be but it was Yvonne's energy and doingness which got the Org opened for business and then Yvonne's vibrant personality, enormous Charisma, and her shear determination and will which made the Org successful overnight and led to the large CCLA International of today. If Yvonne had not been present at LRH's lecture outlining the need for a Celebrity Centre or ever listened to the resultant tape, I am 100% sure that Celebrity Centre would have never come into existence and without it, Scientology might have already vanished from the face of the Earth. It is the money and the public relations benefits of all the Celebrities in Scientology plus their many influential contacts which probably enabled Scientology to withstand the powerful and constant attacks against it and enabled it to grow in size and influence money wise and in assets and political and legal power. Now, most of us on ESMB think this is a bad thing and rue the fact that C of S has still survived but its hard to blame Yvonne for that. She left us in early 1978, too early to comprehend that organized Scientology could ever be what it has become.

    Scientology and Yvonne Jentzch. These two names should be linked like Henry Ford and the Model T, Dr Porche and the Volkswagen, Thomas Edison and the light bulb. Yet go into CCLA today and ask about Yvonne, there is no trace of her left in the Org. The little statue and display near the entry has long since been removed. I wonder if any of the new staff have ever heard of the name, Do any of you know? Examine CCLA's large 30 year anniversary magazine and look for mention of Yvonne's name. There is none, also there is no mention of her in the 35 year anniversary mag but DM is mentioned as having been the major creative spark behind Celibrity Centre and in particular in making it an International Organization. This huge omission of her name being stamped out is the thing that started me reading about Scientology on the internet in 2005. Had she been prominently mentioned in the 35 year issue I would have still respected the churches order to not read about Scientology on the internet.

    CLOSING COMMENTS You could say that Yvonne was a flop because by creating CC, she furthered the expansion of an evil organization which destroys families and lives. Equally valid, I could say that by her creating CC and then not even having her name mentioned in the Org and its publications only 30 years later, that she led me to a complete break from C of S because it sent up a red Flag which made me search for answers on the internet and ultimately led me out of the Church.

    The real truth is that she believed in L Ron Hubbard and 100% of his technologies with all her heart and mind and her main goal was to further Ron's purposes and visions at all costs and against all obstacles. She wanted to serve Ron as a professional and not as a dabbler and devoted her life and all her substantial will and energies to this goal. She believed that if LRH data permeated Earth that would be best for the planet and in fact would be the only thing which could save the planet from nuclear annihilation. These were her beliefs and her goals in my humble opinion because I was not even a major player in this game but I did play and got on the inside enough to know what I know and though I am still finding out new things about C of S, I already know a lot.

    Yvonne was a product of the 1960's and 1970's. It is hard imagine what she would have done if she had lived until the present. At one time, DM would have had a hard time getting rid of her. She had very strong support within the Church especially amongst her public. I believe DM would have ultimately offloaded her and had her declared suppressive but that is just a guess, I can not really know. I base this guess on the fact that DM, like LRH, does not want any other rank and file Scientologist to share the limelight with him. Celebrities, especially Tom Cruise, seem to be an exception to this rule. This is because of "transference" as a new poster Mockingbird6 pointed out in his post yesterday.

    Also, I think Yvonne would have ojbected strongly to family time being reduced to almost nothing and she would have not accepted the enforced abortion program either and strong and powerful leaders whose minds were fully molded and could not be indoctrinated into the DM way of looking at things were almost 100% gotten rid of.

    Well, I enjoyed writing this prequel and am encouraged by the resposes I am getting. See you all later on other threads or I may even come back and extend this one if I think of something new to say,
    Lkwdblds aka Lakey
    Last edited: May 19, 2011
  12. Mockingbird6

    Mockingbird6 Patron with Honors

    Thanks Lakey I will try to post as the need strikes.
    (doesn't that look ominous like MI-6 British Intelligence?)
    (or maybe it's a type of wordclearing!)
    (you don't think of these things when you are picking a moniker.)
  13. Challenge

    Challenge Silver Meritorious Patron

  14. Lesolee (Sith Lord)

    Lesolee (Sith Lord) Patron Meritorious

    Spiffing. :happydance:

    This revisionist "history" of the Co$ is one of the many disturbing aspects of the cult. I particularly disliked finding out that the newly "enhanced" Clearing Congress videos had actually edited Nibs out of the footage.:grouch:

    Excellent story. Thanks for taking the time to write it up. :clap:
  15. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    The Old Days - Aboard the Apollo 1973-Prequel Part 10

    Last edited: Oct 18, 2009
  16. janisgrady

    janisgrady Patron

    Thank you Lakey for your wonderful stories about the old days at CC and about my mother. My siblings and I have really enjoyed reading them. Though I spent most of those days on the Apollo, away from Yvonne, I did have a few chances to visit Yvonne at CC on 8th Street, La Brea and at the Manor and have such fond memories of her and her incredible staff - quite a few of whom I am still in touch with today.
    Because of the connection Yvonne had with Celebrities and the respect they gave her, LRH called her "the celebrity of celebrities" and when she passed,
    LRH instructed that CC was to be made a shrine in her memory.
    When I was WDC CC, over 20 years ago, her office remained along with her many "keys to citys" and awards keeping her presents there. However,
    you are very spot on about DM and his not wanting Yvonne acknowledged
    for what she achieved - three years ago when I saw the person that had been WDC CC for 15 years, I found out she had never heard about the LRH order to make CC a shrine in Yvonnes memory!
    Also, going right along with this chain of thought, after my sister and I spoke at CC's 15th anniversary as Yvonne's daughters, Ray Mithoff who had introduced us, was yelled at by DM for announcing us to the public as Yvonne's daughters and not by our posts! LRH never had a problem with us being Yvonne's daughters, infact when Director Milton Katselas came to the ship and was visting with LRH, Milton commented he had to find Yvonne's daughters to give her love to them. So, LRH had me called to his office, to introduce me to Milton so he could relay his message from Yvonne.
    Another time, after I had completed a mission to CCLA on La Brea, stats faultered on the 4th week which would hurt my mission results, LRH called
    me to his office and went over the stats with me, and said "send a telex to you mother and have her get back in the actions the mission put in" - end result was an affluence mission for me, thanks to my Mum.
    So, yes, Celebrity Center was Yvonnes baby - starting it as a "Booking Office" in 1969 out of AOLA and with Diana Hubbards protection as CS6 from the GO, Yvonne was able to build a safe place for many to enjoy.
    Again Lakey - thank you for the fond memories.
    Janis Gillham-Grady
  17. Welcome Janis!

    Janis, Welcome! I'm glad that you joined us! It is wonderful to hear how much these stories mean to you. I am sure that you have some stories to tell of your own, which I hope you will feel free to do in time. :)

    I think one of the benefits of a board like this one is that we can fill in the blanks, so to speak of the gaps and alterations of the history of the church of Scientology.

    Lakey, I absolutely want to encourage you to keep on writing your thoughts and memories here, you are not at the end of the story yet, because you are still evolving.

    I wish we could all collectively piece together an accurate, factual history of the Scientology movement and church, for the record, for publication, including everyone's contributions, especially those who fell out of favor with Ron or the current management and were shunned, offloaded, RPF'd or left, and whose memories and contributions were expunged from official COS literature and history...

    I do think it's important for everybody to know the whole truth about Scientology, including the current and future Scientologists. :thumbsup:
  18. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    I am so glad my story's reached you & your family!!!!

    If I was retired, I would try and put together a manuscript but I am working and do not have the time. I know already what stories I would include and among them would be the stories of Otto Roos, Mike Goldstein, Kima Doublas and Ken Urquhart. Robert Dam's website out of Denmark has some real good stuff on it too but he has not expanded if for at least two years so now it is getting a little stale dated.

    Thank you so much for your post. What better tribute could the writer of a post have than to be read and and thanked by the family members of the main person written about in the post!

    I remember the director Milton Katselas well. He even played basketball once with C.C. Staff members and I was one of the players. I remembered Milton's trip to visit LRH on Flag and when Milton returned, Yvonne let us know that he had made friends with LRH and that LRH had a great interest in Hollywood and movie making and discussed those topics at length with Milton. Milton kept up his actors' school in L.A. all these years and I saw on the internet just a few months ago that he had passed away.

    I'm glad to hear that I was right about DM not wanting to have Yvonne have any fame of any share of the limelight for her tremendous contributions to Scientology. It really was not difficult to figure that out it was actually a "no brainer". It seems to me DM gives people no credit whatsoever when it comes to the abiltiy to do research, analyze situations and spot outpoints. He seems to think that we are all "marks" who can be tricked with impunity while he pursues his programs with no worries of ever being held acountable or called to account for injuring people and breaking laws.

    Its so good to hear that LRH so respected your Mom that he ordered CC to be made a shrine to her in her memory. I did not know that and the other anectdotes were all interesting especially the one about the 15 year anniversary. Well, I was a member of her wonderful staff and now that you know who I am, I hope you continue to stay in touch with me.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2009
  19. Challenge

    Challenge Silver Meritorious Patron

  20. Lesolee (Sith Lord)

    Lesolee (Sith Lord) Patron Meritorious

    That's interesting. Why make them sign such an agreement? I have seen the odd reference here and there on this board about male pcs with hot female auditors, and I haven't heard of anyone being sent to ethics for thinking of their hot auditor whilst ... whilst ... you know ... relieving themselves. :whistling:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.